No improvements for you says the Union

[MotionMan]

Where have you been posting the last several years... ATOT/PN are generally rabidly anti-union. I'm personally more of a lets look at this with some reason kind of person, but that pits me against the rabid no matter what side they're on.

I am a lawyer and have handled various employment matters. I come to the discussion with reason and facts:

There was a time for unions and because of them, we have a great deal of employee protection laws. However, the time for unions as a presence in the workplace has passed. Unions should be converted from employer-specific organizations to state and national lobbies to help maintain the current laws and to proposed and support new ones.

MotionMan

 

[highland145]

A week later my monitor still sits in the office collecting dust. I said: "fuck this", took the monitor to the classroom, installed it and dropped off the old CRT in the office. They were none the wiser. Sometimes you just have to take the action.

IT guy finally shows up with a work order, reinstalls the CRT and takes the "broken" lcd home.

 

[AyashiKaibutsu]

I am a lawyer and have handled various employment matters. I come to the discussion with reason and facts:

There was a time for unions and because of them, we have a great deal of employee protection laws. However, the time for unions as a presence in the workplace has passed. Unions should be converted from employer-specific organizations to state and national lobbies to help maintain the current laws and to proposed and support new ones.

MotionMan

That is pretty reasonable. Unfortunately, most people try to make the argument that employers are all kind and gentle now and if unions completely went away things could only get even better for people.

I've seen some jobs where Unions are definitely still needed though too so transitioning to a completely lobbyist system would have to be very well thought out.

 

[moshquerade]

Did you talk to your child's teacher?

 

[MotionMan]

That is pretty reasonable. Unfortunately, most people try to make the argument that employers are all kind and gentle now and if unions completely went away things could only get even better for people.

I've seen some jobs where Unions are definitely still needed though too so transitioning to a completely lobbyist system would have to be very well thought out.

I do not pretend to think that employers are any better than those who ran the sweat shops that gave rise to unions. What I believe is that you do not need a union in each company to enforce the law. I also do not believe that salaries should be unnaturally inflated and that companies should lack the ability to make business decisions that would improve the business.

MotionMan

 

[tynopik]

I bet the union makes them take it down if you do.

Claim you can't take it down because that's the union's job.

We don't have the money to hire the union so it will have to stay until money becomes available.

Union can't volunteer to take it down for free because then the question would be why can't they put it up for free.

 

[Kanalua]

As a Labor Attorney representing Unions and "working families"...if employers treated their employees better then you wouldn't need Unions (it happens).

As for public unions...the OP's example...sigh...

 

[AyashiKaibutsu]

I do not pretend to think that employers are any better than those who ran the sweat shops that gave rise to unions. What I believe is that you do not need a union in each company to enforce the law. I also do not believe that salaries should be unnaturally inflated and that companies should lack the ability to make business decisions that would improve the business.

MotionMan

The best decisions for businesses is generally to keep their workers perpetually poor and in the worst conditions possible without any mobility to change themselves. I think they should lack the ability to make that decision, but I also think unions shouldn't be given power by the government to essentially shut down businesses either although they need some degree of power to have an ability to negotiate with employers.

 

[Ns1]

The best decisions for businesses is generally to keep their workers perpetually poor and in the worst conditions possible without any mobility to change themselves.

those types of companies don't attract good talent.

 

[Squisher]

Are these shelving units free standing? If they are make them and make them a donation to the school system and the union maintenance guy installs them. I'm sure the union does not make all the tables, chairs, and file cabinets.

 

[MotionMan]

The best decisions for businesses is generally to keep their workers perpetually poor and in the worst conditions possible without any mobility to change themselves. I think they should lack the ability to make that decision, but I also think unions shouldn't be given power by the government to essentially shut down businesses either although they need some degree of power to have an ability to negotiate with employers.

That is what labor laws are for.

MotionMan

 

[AyashiKaibutsu]

those types of companies don't attract good talent.

You don't need good talent for all jobs. Why would school administrators (ones that only care about getting paid(obviously some people actually care about what they're in charge of)) care if they have talented teachers? Do you think they care if their maintenance does top quality work?

 

[Ns1]

You don't need good talent for all jobs. Why would school administrators (ones that only care about getting paid(obviously some people actually care about what they're in charge of)) care if they have talented teachers?

because some administrators want their schools to succeed?


I'm commenting on business as a whole, not schools in particular.

 

[AyashiKaibutsu]

because some administrators want their schools to succeed?

Unfortunately, the world isn't a fairy-tale land where all administrators are like that. I've seen too many that only want to get paid or only want their numbers to succeed to pin my hopes on that.

 

[Kanalua]

I would actually go to the Union and tell them what you want to do. That you would donate the materials and they could install it. Make a big deal about it being the concerned public, the Union and the School's principal coming together to make up where public funding is coming up short. Have the Union contact the press and make a big deal about it.

If you don't mind the Union and the Principal getting some credit, you could sell it as a win win for everyone. The Union gets good press and could even get paid for "installing" the shelving, the principal gets to look like a good administrator - bringing the community together to make up where funding fails, you no longer have your daughters crap getting wet!

 

[paulney]

Did you talk to your child's teacher?

Yes, I did. Kid seems to like her a lot, so we've decided not to do anything.

 

[paulney]

I would actually go to the Union and tell them what you want to do. That you would donate the materials and they could install it. Make a big deal about it being the concerned public, the Union and the School's principal coming together to make up where public funding is coming up short. Have the Union contact the press and make a big deal about it.

If you don't mind the Union and the Principal getting some credit, you could sell it as a win win for everyone. The Union gets good press and could even get paid for "installing" the shelving, the principal gets to look like a good administrator - bringing the community together to make up where funding fails, you no longer have your daughters crap getting wet!

Thanks! I'll talk to the principal and the maintenance guy again on Tuesday. There was one other dad who was willing to help me, so we may be able to push it through together.

 

[moshquerade]

Yes, I did. Kid seems to like her a lot, so we've decided not to do anything.

And in hindsight I bet you will realize you rushed to judgment. 😉

 

[paulney]

And in hindsight I bet you will realize you rushed to judgment. 😉

I admit I did. The Theology and Bible major + no experience pushed me over the edge, but she seems quite nice. I came in as unbiased as I could be, and I left feeling she would indeed do the best for the kids.

 

[pontifex]

i need to see pics of this school. single room wooden sheds?
is this in some sort of hippy commune?

 

[the DRIZZLE]

Depends on the district, but there are certainly districts here that are underfunded. And any time a referendum comes along to fix serious building issues, it fails lately.

The US spends more per student than almost any other country on the planet. The schools are in no way underfunded. If they are not using their budgets in an intelligent way that's a different problem.

 

[sdifox]

I meant 5 or more of them. And I don't really think PE is a necessary part of school anyway. Teach the health section in the standard science courses. Actually exercising isn't something a school needs to be responsible for. That's a parenting thing.

I disagree. Reduction of physical education in schools contributes to the obesity problem.

 

[sdifox]

I am a lawyer and have handled various employment matters. I come to the discussion with reason and facts:

There was a time for unions and because of them, we have a great deal of employee protection laws. However, the time for unions as a presence in the workplace has passed. Unions should be converted from employer-specific organizations to state and national lobbies to help maintain the current laws and to proposed and support new ones.

MotionMan

hear hear

 

[torpid]

The US spends more per student than almost any other country on the planet. The schools are in no way underfunded. If they are not using their budgets in an intelligent way that's a different problem.

Again... there are SOME schools that are underfunded. I am sure there are also some schools that are over-funded. I'm not sure if you are having reading comprehension issues or if you truly believe that every district in the US has adequate school funding.

 

[ShawnD1]

Schools don't need guidance counselors and PE? That's news to me...

My schools never had guidance counselors.
Why do you need a gym teacher? Home schooled kids don't have gym teachers and they seem to do just fine.

The best decisions for businesses is generally to keep their workers perpetually poor and in the worst conditions possible without any mobility to change themselves.

That's retarded. If you treat your people like shit, they leave. Even really shitty jobs like McDonalds, they'll still leave and go work at Wendys if the manager there is better.