The republicans are the ones pushing for sensible reform with two main goals being deficit neutral and not government control of patient care or decisions.
So red's last sentence is bogus and unreasonable.
The republicans are the ones pushing for sensible reform with two main goals being deficit neutral and not government control of patient care or decisions.
So red's last sentence is bogus and unreasonable.
Way to go fellas. I know some people who aren't getting my vote in 2010 unless they get their shit together.
This country is going downhill everyday because of the nuts that have kept us from joining the ranks of advanced nations with UHC.
This country is going downhill everyday because of the nuts that have kept us from joining the ranks of advanced nations with UHC.
Engineer
Elite Member
- Oct 9, 1999
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Not saying that what the dems are pushing is reasonable, but the GOP isn't pushing anything to save anything. The only horseshit that they have ever given is HSA's and the ability for you to "self insure". It's a ploy to eventually remove the people from employer insurance and become self insured.
You should try listening to your Senate minority leader more often to see what he's doing/pushing.
I agree regarding the need for reform. I think any halfway logical person realizes that the system is broken and needs fixed, but passing some massive bill without really thinking through all the options and considerations seems rather stupid.
I keep seeing people post things about the repubs having no alternative. Whether they offer an alternative or not has no bearing on whether the proposed plan is good or not. I don't care if they don't have an alternative, if the proposed plan is not better than what we have today then we shouldn't do it. Lets take some time, come up with the smart solution, and then if the republicans want to block it to maintain a status quo, the screw'em.
- Apr 8, 2001
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Best thing about this so far has been the administration releasing a statement shortly after this announcement that they were going ahead with their plan and hope to see a vote before the break only to have just a wee bit of change when bho spoke at cleveland because now a delay is ok. 
Maybe my sarcasm meter is broken. But Healthcare "reform" is currently being held up by Blue Dog Democrats in the House.
The Democratic party currently has three competing factions. The Blue Dogs, the moderate to conservative democrats which are the main reason the Dems have a majority right now are the ones wanting substaintial changes to current proposals. Pelosi said she has the votes. The Blue Dogs quickly responded publicly saying she does not.
I wrote a couple dozen letters - not one to a GOPer. It was sensible Dems that caused delay on early vote. That bill was intentionally left vague with lots of "to be decided after passage" clauses. It was a Freddie Kruger bill and Dems new it would haunt them.
Employer provided insurance is one of the problems as it is not portable. Change jobs, lose your insurance, which accounts for about 1/2 of the uninsured. You may not like HSAs, but they are providing insurance to about 4million(around 50% hsas did not have prior insurance) people that did not have insurance before. This cost the taxpayers next to nothing to implement.
What part of 'the republicans are the minority' are you incapable of understanding. The dems can pass this without 1 republican vote.
Not so. My old company had a health care option that covered major medical items AND allowed you to contribute to an HSA.
Engineer
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and my company has an HSA that you have to pay for the catastrophic insurance and get zero match in the HSA. That's as close to self insured as you're going to get. Just because your company does one thing does not mean that they all do (same goes for mine, but I bet mine is not the only company that does this). To think that an HSA = insurance is crazy. It's nothing but a tax advantaged self pay plan.
No that is not the case. If you self employed it is very good option. However much of the hsa growth has come companies that have never offered insurance now offering HSA plans to their employees.
And if you company is not covering premiums or putting money into your HSA, you should be shopping around for a better deal.
Engineer
Elite Member
- Oct 9, 1999
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Please explain how I'm putting my money into an account and having to purchase the catastrophic insurance yet it is not a "self insured" plan?
Sure, "some" are somewhat of an insurance plan but you are footing the bulk of your own bills. Insurance is a pooling of money so that coverage risk is spread among the group. HSA = Risk here is spread to you and you alone. Not insurance. Better than nothing I guess but not insurance.
Yes you can self insure with an HSA, but that does mean all HSA are self insured.
[/quote]
The high deductible insurance that is paired with HSA is insurance and it is pooled, except it is pooling for the catastrophic, not the common affordable problems. It if foolish to pay hundreds every month in premiums so you have the luxury of a $20 copay at the docs office.
Engineer
Elite Member
- Oct 9, 1999
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I guess that depends on how often you go to the doctor. My last two co-pay visits cost me $25 each but totaled $425 and that was for 20 minutes work-total.
Again, the HSA is not a solution to anything except to eventually shift the burden of insurance from the company to the employee. It does not even begin to solve the costs issue of care. It doesn't reduce paperwork unless you have no other insurance and then, you get billed full out of network rates. Finally, it does little to nothing for that that can't afford insurance of any type even while working. Why would they suddenly be able to fund an HSA if they are not making enough to buy regular insurance?
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