No Competition = High Prices

[chrismr]

I just picked up my 8800GTX for £310 through Ebay, brand new and unused so I am quite happy with what it cost me - considering they cost at least £60 more in shops.

Yes, they are still pricey, but consider that one of these cards is generally outperforming 2 of the previous gen combined, it really is not too bad.

But if you think prices have not dropped, try looking at the prices of the 7900's and x1900's. And prices on the 8800's have dropped a fair bit in the UK too - I think they generally cost about £100 less than when they launched.

So the R600 has been delayed, too bad. I too was waiting for it, but I am not that patient. It's not my loss, but AMD's. The 8800's are great cards.

Yes, Nvidia is dropping the ball on the drivers but XP seems ok to me. What they really need to do is have 2 development teams, one working on XP and one working on Vista.

The only people who are rally losing out right now is the ATI/AMD fanboys and AMD themselves. For the fanboys, why bother getting frustrated over all of this and just go get an 8800. Neither of these companies is better than the other.

I seriously doubt anyone who has an 8800 really cares about R600 delays anymore, as we are happy and enjoying our cards

 

[BladeVenom]

Originally posted by: Zebo
No just a general comment - all the time these threads pop up about high priced video cards and it's really unjustified. I mean you got a motherboard, significant amount fast ram on board and a processor which development costs must be recouped in a very short time frame making selling these cards for less than 400-500 a losing proposition if not impossible. Competition or lack thereof has little to do with their high prices.

That's not what the Justice Department thinks. Justice Dept. subpoenas AMD, Nvidia

 

[jim1976]

Originally posted by: BFG10K
Because they don't care. That's why ATi have been releasing monthly WHQL drivers for XP since 2002 but nVidia still won't commit in 2007.

I think it's a bit more complicated in this particular case, especially if you take into consideration that we are talking about a completely new architecture and the fact that they have to provide 4 or 5 different kind of drivers.. Windows XP G80 32/64bit, XP 32/64bit and Vista 32/64bit.. Nm..

 

[AnitaPeterson]

let's take a moment...

Matrox: MIA
XGI: bought by ATI
3dfx: dead/bought by nVidia
PowerVR (Kyro): MIA
SiS: MIA

sad state of affairs, but then again, keep in mind there's nothing right now to justify another generation shift on the GPU front.

We've been upgrading like crazy, left and right, but there are still people out there using Radeon 7000 and GF2/GF4 MX... and to be honest, the market has been self-cannibalizing for the last 12 months.

I've had a VIVO GF2 GTS in my main machine(s) since Christmas of 2000, and I only upgraded it to an AIW ATI x800XL last year... it plays anything I throw at it, and I plan on keeping it for at least two more years.

Let's look at what's being played these days. I'm willing to bet many gamers are still into the Quake, Unreal, Doom and Half-Life series. There are still VERY few games that *absolutely* require power above the level of a GF4, and that's already *three* GPU generations ago, DirectX9 notwithstanding...

 

[Aikouka]

Bah, imagine if you paid the release price for the G80 .

I didn't mind spending the extra money, it came with a free e-peen enhancer for extra oggle-ability :laugh:.

 

[Wreckage]

The price of the GTS 320 just dropped to $269. That's not too bad. It's more card than most people need. It seems things are just fine even without competition.

 

[Elfear]

Originally posted by: Wreckage
The price of the GTS 320 just dropped to $269. That's not too bad. It's more card than most people need. It seems things are just fine even without competition.

That's the thing, there is competition in the lower high-end. The X1900 cards compete fairly well with the 320MB 8800GTS. The Nvidia card is still the better buy right now IMO, but there is still competition in the market to help bring prices down.

 

[nippyjun]

One benefit of no competition is less obsolescence. You don't have to feel bad that something better just came out after your purchase. You have some time to feel like you have the best there is.

 

[Canterwood]

Originally posted by: lopri
1. I purchased a 8800 GTX last year for $549 (Leadtek).
2. Just received a rebate check ($25).
3. Out of curiosity, I went to browse the Egg for GTX prices.
4. The lowest price for GTX without rebates = $549, with rebates = $525
5. So in last 3 months, GTX prices haven't changed. (not counting initial gouging)

My conclusion: No competition = Sucks

Exactly.

Just shows how wrong the idiot fanboys are when they want to see the competition out of business.

 

[Wreckage]

Originally posted by: Elfear

Originally posted by: Wreckage
The price of the GTS 320 just dropped to $269. That's not too bad. It's more card than most people need. It seems things are just fine even without competition.

That's the thing, there is competition in the lower high-end. The X1900 cards compete fairly well with the 320MB 8800GTS. The Nvidia card is still the better buy right now IMO, but there is still competition in the market to help bring prices down.

Only the X1950XTX comes close but it still loses in most benchmars, generally costs more and lacks DX10. I would not recommend it unless it was at least $50 less.

Hopefully AMD will get their mid range and low end out in time to compete with NVIDIA and we can get back to the old benchmark wars + price wars.

 

[Cookie Monster]

Well, as of now, the 8800GTX is the king of the hill in the ~$530 and up market. The 8800GTS 640mb dominates the $340~$530, and the 8800GTS 320mb dominates the $270~340. Dont even mention the dual GPU market.

From $270 onwards, theres simply no competition from ATi. Its going to get worse since G84 is going to hit the market at april 17th which is based on the most current rumour. (G84 is 8600GTS, 8600GT, 8500GT).

I dont think the G80 series are high in price. Look at the price drops compared to their original pricing during launch. That is comparing the MSRP of 8800GTX to the current street price, it has dropped ~$120, 8800GTS has dropped ~$150, and the 8800GTS 320mb has already dropped ~$130.

Id say thats quite good, but if there was some competition we couldve seen more aggressive price cuts from nVIDIA.

 

[Gstanfor]

Originally posted by: Wreckage
The price of the GTS 320 just dropped to $269. That's not too bad. It's more card than most people need. It seems things are just fine even without competition.

QFT

Despite what all the nay-sayers bleat, nvidia has never done the wrong thing by the average consumer pricewise - It isn't in their interest to as they would sell less cards.

 

[conlan]

Originally posted by: Wreckage
The price of the GTS 320 just dropped to $269. That's not too bad. It's more card than most people need. It seems things are just fine even without competition.

Yup, to compete w/ the X1950 series, ATI has been selling the hell outta this series, it has easily been the best bang for your buck card for a while now. Now that nVidia has dropped the price on the GTS 320, it will make folks think twice before buying a mid-range Card. If the GTS 320 had been @ $269 when i bought my X1950XT a few weeks ago, i would've bought that instead.

quote:
Originally posted by: Wreckage
The price of the GTS 320 just dropped to $269. That's not too bad. It's more card than most people need. It seems things are just fine even without competition.

QFT

Despite what all the nay-sayers bleat, nvidia has never done the wrong thing by the average consumer pricewise - It isn't in their interest to as they would sell less cards.

Come on now, you've been around long enough to remember the old 3dfx/nVidia wars, you should know better.

 

[ronnn]

The op is wrong. No competition leads to better products at lower prices. Bill Gates is quite adamant about this.

 

[Wreckage]

Originally posted by: ronnn
The op is wrong. No competition leads to better products at lower prices. Bill Gates is quite adamant about this.

Could you imagine if MS had real competition. Windows Vista Ultimate $49.99. Office 2007 Free AR.

 

[apoppin]

look at the AGP x1950p/512 ... it's still hanging ~$250 after more than a couple of months ... with several partners offering identical cards

it's only *competition* is the 7800GS OC ... for almost $100 less

nvidia is making a killing at the ultra-high and very-high end while AMD has cornered the top AGP card upgrade market

 

[conlan]

Originally posted by: apoppin
look at the AGP x1950p/512 ... it's still hanging ~$250 after more than a couple of months ... with several partners offering identical cards

it's only *competition* is the 7800GS OC ... for almost $100 less

nvidia is making a killing at the ultra-high and very-high end while AMD has cornered the top AGP card upgrade market

Exactly, no competition = higher prices, it works both ways. It's not just nVidia. Just think what we'd be paying for CPUs if Intel or AMD were the only game in town.

 

[lopri]

Yup. conlan posted what I just was going to say. Just look at the current CPU market and what a brutal competition can bring to consumers.

 

[Gstanfor]

Originally posted by: conlan
Come on now, you've been around long enough to remember the old 3dfx/nVidia wars, you should know better.

Thats right, I have been around long enought to remember that (I've seen 99.9% of the personal computers entire history).

What I remember at that time was nvidia offering incredible bang for the buck compared to every other manufacturer on the planet. I personally bought a GF2 Pro, pricing was so reasonable (I still own that card and its still in active use), budget buyers had to GF2 MX. Video card buyers rarely had it as good as they did back then. It was a golden age of innovation and performance. It was also an age of dinosaur extinction.

 

[Wreckage]

Originally posted by: Gstanfor

Thats right, I have been around long enought to remember that (I've seen 99.9% of the personal computers entire history).

Yeah, well I remember learning Assembler and COBOL. A lot of good that did me. Of course I also learned and pretty much forgot about a dozen other languages.

 

[Gstanfor]

C is the only language that really matters now. Has been that way since the Amiga launched.

To be fair though the prehistoric BASIC interpreters in Commodore 8 bit machines forced users to understand how a computer really worked, by needing to peek, poke and consult memory maps etc. I strongly believe I wouldn't have as good a grasp of low level computer operation without it.

(yeah I know it's C++ now - i still just refer to it all generically as C - when I learned the language there was no C++)

 

[Wreckage]

Originally posted by: Gstanfor
C is the only language that really matters now. Has been that way since the Amiga launched.

You mean C++

To be fair though the prehistoric BASIC interpreters in Commodore 8 bit machines forced users to understand how a computer really worked, by needing to peek, poke and consult memory maps etc. I strongly believe I wouldn't have as good a grap of low level computer operation without it.

Assembler exposed the hardware in a way that only a screwdriver could compete with.

 

[apoppin]

so tedious

 

[Gstanfor]

Originally posted by: apoppin
so tedious

What's tedious? Programming? I guess it could be seen that way for those without the temprament for it. Given your colorful personality I don't think you could sit still long enough to write a program. No offence intended by that either.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Gstanfor

Originally posted by: apoppin
so tedious

What's tedious? Programming? I guess it could be seen that way for those without the temprament for it. Given your colorful personality I don't think you could sit still long enough to write a program. No offence intended by that either.

sure i learned

i started with Atari800xl
--if you wanted something *good* you wrote it yourself

and i realized that i *don't* have the temperament for it although it is not difficult