No Competition = High Prices

[lopri]

1. I purchased a 8800 GTX last year for $549 (Leadtek).
2. Just received a rebate check ($25).
3. Out of curiosity, I went to browse the Egg for GTX prices.
4. The lowest price for GTX without rebates = $549, with rebates = $525
5. So in last 3 months, GTX prices haven't changed. (not counting initial gouging)

My conclusion: No competition = Sucks

 

[Matt2]

your conclusion = correct

Now you know why we're all so pissed at AMD/ATI.

I've been waiting for GTS 640 and GTX to come down in price because I just got a 24" LCD, but it hasnt happened because nothing is driving the price down.

 

[happy medium]

I look at it this way, the performance of 2, 1950xtx's is on par with a 8800gtx. Now try and find 2- 1950xtx's for 550.00$

 

[conlan]

Originally posted by: lopri
1. I purchased a 8800 GTX last year for $549 (Leadtek).
2. Just received a rebate check ($25).
3. Out of curiosity, I went to browse the Egg for GTX prices.
4. The lowest price for GTX without rebates = $549, with rebates = $525
5. So in last 3 months, GTX prices haven't changed. (not counting initial gouging)

My conclusion: No competition = Sucks

Agreed, and although some are getting frustrated waiting for R600, where would we be w/out AMD/ATI? We'd be getting hosed thats what. So y'all better pray/hope that AMD doesn't fold wether you like AMD/ATI products or not. If it does, Intel and nVidia are going to be free to rape and pillage.

 

[Matt2]

Originally posted by: conlan

Originally posted by: lopri
1. I purchased a 8800 GTX last year for $549 (Leadtek).
2. Just received a rebate check ($25).
3. Out of curiosity, I went to browse the Egg for GTX prices.
4. The lowest price for GTX without rebates = $549, with rebates = $525
5. So in last 3 months, GTX prices haven't changed. (not counting initial gouging)

My conclusion: No competition = Sucks

Agreed, and although some are getting frustrated waiting for R600, where would we be w/out AMD/ATI? We'd be getting hosed thats what. So y'all better pray/hope that AMD doesn't fold wether you like AMD/ATI products or not. If it does, Intel and nVidia are going to be free to rape and pillage.

You're right, but AMD/ATI does us no good if they only put out one product for every 2 cycles compared to Nvidias one product per cycle.

 

[conlan]

Originally posted by: Matt2

Originally posted by: conlan

Originally posted by: lopri
1. I purchased a 8800 GTX last year for $549 (Leadtek).
2. Just received a rebate check ($25).
3. Out of curiosity, I went to browse the Egg for GTX prices.
4. The lowest price for GTX without rebates = $549, with rebates = $525
5. So in last 3 months, GTX prices haven't changed. (not counting initial gouging)

My conclusion: No competition = Sucks

Agreed, and although some are getting frustrated waiting for R600, where would we be w/out AMD/ATI? We'd be getting hosed thats what. So y'all better pray/hope that AMD doesn't fold wether you like AMD/ATI products or not. If it does, Intel and nVidia are going to be free to rape and pillage.

You're right, but AMD/ATI does us no good if they only put out one product for every 2 cycles compared to Nvidias one product per cycle.

I agree, ATI needs to get on the ball, but competition at the sub-high end is better than no competition across the board.

 

[lopri]

Originally posted by: happy medium
I look at it this way, the performance of 2, 1950xtx's is on par with a 8800gtx. Now try and find 2- 1950xtx's for 550.00$

Precisely.

If AMD had a product better than 8800 GTX out in the market already, we'd see a lower price tag from GTXs.

 

[Zebo]

Now than 640MB card can be had for $339 and 320MB card for $279 I don't buy it. These are #2 and #3 fastest cards in the universe. When ATI had them they were over $400 ( X1900XT for example) - their X1900XTX was around $600. All things considered, like ATI is not even close the $530 GTX is cheap and would only change if ATI has a faster card which they would charge $600 for so you're back to where you started and still complaining. Either pay the price or don't. But you're deluded if you think the top card will ever go below $500 competition or not.

 

[nZone]

Actually $519 without rebate for the GTX.
@Microcenter.

 

[chizow]

Have to look at it both ways. G80 was such a leap over currently available cards at the time that it had actually staying power beyond the 6-month and out product life cycle plaguing the GPU industry. Wasn't that a major gripe in the past? That cards were just getting speed bumps 10-15% at a time yet still commanding $300-400 price tags for the "upgrade".

By competition and driving prices down, you're implying there's something released faster than it, problem is there's no immediate need right now for a faster part. No DX10 games necessitating a faster GPU. 1 GTX is enough to push most any current game at higher resolutions with 4x AA and 16x AF and still maintain framerates previously impossible with a single and even a 2 card solution.

If R600 was around it wouldn't change the landscape that much. The high-end parts, if they performed similarly, would be similarly priced and still command premium prices. The absence of R600 might be a reason to postpone the 8900 series release, but for most people it wouldn't be worth the cost difference to upgrade. Personally I'd rather see a 100% increase in performance every year instead of going back to the 10-20% improvement every quarter or two.

 

[Wreckage]

1.)Release high end card
2.)No competition
3.)Profit

However, AMD wants NVIDIA to make tons of money off of their high end cards that is why they are delaying the R600 (which they claim is ready to go).

 

[jdoggg12]

If you think you can do better, why don't those of you who are so pissed off try releasing a product. No business willingly lets the competition dominate the market. So you have 2 options

1- start your own company and create a superior product thats cheaper

or

2- Go get a job for DAAMIT and you improve their situation - if you can criticize them for their 'incompetence' you obviously have what it takes to head a billion dollar company


They're doing their best, Nvidia just happened to hit one out of the park with the 8800

 

[Matt2]

Originally posted by: jdoggg12
If you think you can do better, why don't those of you who are so pissed off try releasing a product. No business willingly lets the competition dominate the market. So you have 2 options

1- start your own company and create a superior product thats cheaper

or

2- Go get a job for DAAMIT and you improve their situation - if you can criticize them for their 'incompetence' you obviously have what it takes to head a billion dollar company


They're doing their best, Nvidia just happened to hit one out of the park with the 8800

Doing their best?

They claim R600 is ready to go. They even showed it off pushing a teraflop.

Purposely holding a product back that is "ready to go" is not doing their best and anyone who buys into that garbage... I have a bridge to sell you in Brooklyn.

 

[lopri]

Originally posted by: Zebo
Now than 640MB card can be had for $339 and 320MB card for $279 I don't buy it. These are #2 and #3 fastest cards in the universe. When ATI had them they were over $400 ( X1900XT for example) - their X1900XTX was around $600. All things considered, like ATI is not even close the $530 GTX is cheap and would only change if ATI has a faster card which they would charge $600 for so you're back to where you started and still complaining. Either pay the price or don't. But you're deluded if you think the top card will ever go below $500 competition or not.

Not sure if this comment is directed to me but I'm for sure not complaining personally. You know, the video card market has probably been the craziest of all hardware and I know many folks often feel the 'buyer's remorse' after making their purchases. In the end we all know how fast a GPU can devalue over time (or it used to be like that).

If anything I should be happy that my card hasn't lost its value at all, all the while I've been enjoying its benefit for the past 3 months. But I just happened to notice that this is probably the longest time where a top/new card stayed at its introductory price - which obviously in part results from lack of competition.

 

[Lonyo]

What the hell? Cannot agree with this thread at all.
The 8800GTS 320MB was cheaper on release than the 7800GT was (by like 10%). The 8800GTS 640MB is slightly more than a Ti4400 was back in the old days (IIRC), with the 320MB one a similar price to the Ti4200.

Prices in the long run that I have seen (if you ignore the overpriced bleeding edge) are perfectly reasonable, and that's WITHOUT competition.
If you buy bleeding edge, expect to be charged more.

The low end now is just insane, 7900GS cards can be found for what I would consider an incredibly low price (I call them low end because of the price point).

 

[conlan]

Originally posted by: Lonyo
What the hell? Cannot agree with this thread at all.
The 8800GTS 320MB was cheaper on release than the 7800GT was (by like 10%). The 8800GTS 640MB is slightly more than a Ti4400 was back in the old days (IIRC), with the 320MB one a similar price to the Ti4200.

Prices in the long run that I have seen (if you ignore the overpriced bleeding edge) are perfectly reasonable, and that's WITHOUT competition.
If you buy bleeding edge, expect to be charged more.

The low end now is just insane, 7900GS cards can be found for what I would consider an incredibly low price (I call them low end because of the price point).

My point exactly, nVidia has competition at the sub high-end level and has to price accordingly. However, since they currently own the high-end, the prices remain high, instead of starting high then slowly dropping to remain competitive. This, i believe, was the OPs point.

 

[BFG10K]

The prices don't really concern me per-se, it's the lack of XP drivers for the G80.

I'm sure as soon as the R600 hits nVidia will magically create some new drivers. :|

 

[conlan]

Originally posted by: BFG10K
The prices don't really concern me per-se, it's the lack of XP drivers for the G80.

I'm sure as soon as the R600 hits nVidia will magically create some new drivers. :|

Hehe, amazing how that happens, huh

 

[jim1976]

Originally posted by: BFG10K
The prices don't really concern me per-se, it's the lack of XP drivers for the G80.

I'm sure as soon as the R600 hits nVidia will magically create some new drivers. :|

You mean "create" some new drivers that will have performance boost?
Because I really see no reason as to how they could benefit from delaying bugs/fixes if they can release a better driver...

 

[conlan]

Originally posted by: jim1976

Originally posted by: BFG10K
The prices don't really concern me per-se, it's the lack of XP drivers for the G80.

I'm sure as soon as the R600 hits nVidia will magically create some new drivers. :|

You mean "create" some new drivers that will have performance boost?
Because I really see no reason as to how they could benefit from delaying bugs/fixes if they can release a better driver...

Actually....i've seen nVidia release drivers that vastly improve performance soon after competitive releases. Whether this is intentional or not i can't say, but the timing makes me wonder.

 

[jim1976]

Originally posted by: conlan

Originally posted by: jim1976

Originally posted by: BFG10K
The prices don't really concern me per-se, it's the lack of XP drivers for the G80.

I'm sure as soon as the R600 hits nVidia will magically create some new drivers. :|

You mean "create" some new drivers that will have performance boost?
Because I really see no reason as to how they could benefit from delaying bugs/fixes if they can release a better driver...

Actually....i've seen nVidia release drivers that vastly improve performance soon after competitive releases. Whether this is intentional or not i can't say, but the timing makes me wonder.

Yes I'm not denying that.. Actually I do agree with this part..
I was referring to the bugs/fixes..

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: lopri

Originally posted by: Zebo
Now than 640MB card can be had for $339 and 320MB card for $279 I don't buy it. These are #2 and #3 fastest cards in the universe. When ATI had them they were over $400 ( X1900XT for example) - their X1900XTX was around $600. All things considered, like ATI is not even close the $530 GTX is cheap and would only change if ATI has a faster card which they would charge $600 for so you're back to where you started and still complaining. Either pay the price or don't. But you're deluded if you think the top card will ever go below $500 competition or not.

Not sure if this comment is directed to me but I'm for sure not complaining personally. You know, the video card market has probably been the craziest of all hardware and I know many folks often feel the 'buyer's remorse' after making their purchases. In the end we all know how fast a GPU can devalue over time (or it used to be like that).

If anything I should be happy that my card hasn't lost its value at all, all the while I've been enjoying its benefit for the past 3 months. But I just happened to notice that this is probably the longest time where a top/new card stayed at its introductory price - which obviously in part results from lack of competition.

No just a general comment - all the time these threads pop up about high priced video cards and it's really unjustified. I mean you got a motherboard, significant amount fast ram on board and a processor which development costs must be recouped in a very short time frame making selling these cards for less than 400-500 a losing proposition if not impossible. Competition or lack thereof has little to do with their high prices.

 

[BFG10K]

Because I really see no reason as to how they could benefit from delaying bugs/fixes if they can release a better driver...

Because they don't care. That's why ATi have been releasing monthly WHQL drivers for XP since 2002 but nVidia still won't commit in 2007.

Whether this is intentional or not i can't say, but the timing makes me wonder.

I'm sure it's intentional. In the case of Vista they've been forced out of it because the drivers are so attrocious people have had enough.

With XP I don't think we'll see any new G80 drivers until either R600 hits or they release the 86xx range.

 

[jdoggg12]

Originally posted by: Matt2

Originally posted by: jdoggg12
If you think you can do better, why don't those of you who are so pissed off try releasing a product. No business willingly lets the competition dominate the market. So you have 2 options

1- start your own company and create a superior product thats cheaper

or

2- Go get a job for DAAMIT and you improve their situation - if you can criticize them for their 'incompetence' you obviously have what it takes to head a billion dollar company


They're doing their best, Nvidia just happened to hit one out of the park with the 8800

Doing their best?

They claim R600 is ready to go. They even showed it off pushing a teraflop.

Purposely holding a product back that is "ready to go" is not doing their best and anyone who buys into that garbage... I have a bridge to sell you in Brooklyn.

Speaking as an employee for a computer/software company, i know there are many reasons for delaying a release even when the product is 'finished.

Including:

-unforeseen compatibility issues
-mechanical problems (potential recall risk)
-market circumstances (including waiting to boost sales to a specific quarter)
-etc

We had our software finished and ready to release and had to postpone the release after finding a critical security issue that could've been catastrophic... of course none of that was made public, but it did tick a lot of people off...

 

[Captante]

Considering the way things have shaken out, I'm actually glad my X1900XTX failed on me & I replaced it with an 8800GTX back in November '06 ... despite the fact that it cost me about $160 more (Newegg didn't have the HIS IceQ3 in stock, so I got a credit for the balance) it has turned into a great deal considering ATI's R600 problems.