No camera policy at free outdoor concert

[Muse]

So, I take my NEW Pentax K-x out for a shoot...

I hear about a free outdoor concert and think, "this might be perfect for my first expedition with my new first DSLR." Do my homework and find out how to get there. This is the Stern's Grove Music Festival concert 2 PM yesterday (Sunday). Bike to BART (I'm in Berkeley), get off at Balboa Park Station, Bike to the concert, free valet bike parking, trundle down to the concert. A guy is on the P.A. extolling the attendees to donate what they can, kind of egregiously shaking them down, was my distinct impression.

I walk in there (I was a little late) and there's no place to sit down, but they are between the two acts so no biggie if I just stand there and shoot, I figured. People everywhere, cloudy day. I had my 55-300mm kit lens on and snapped a few pictures. I was around 75 yards from the stage, where they were setting up for the headliner.

A big security guard comes up to me and says "you aren't allowed to use a camera here." I go, "what's the problem?" He says it's a matter of "intellectual property rights." I tell him "they don't give you a problem at the Hardly Strictly Bluegrass Festival." [I've brought my P&S there a few times, gotten a lot of great shots, saw many people with DSLR's] He says it's "in the contract." I say, "OK, I'll find some other place" and leave. I walk away grumbling to myself that any musician who would begrudge people taking pictures is a total jerk. Of course, I realize that Ricky Lee Jones probably didn't have anything to do with it. Don't figure I'll return to Stern's Grove. Obviously doesn't hold a candle to Hardly Strictly Bluegrass, anyway. I need some ideas on where to take my new camera... :awe:

At one point the camera refused to focus. I even turned it off/on to get it unconfused. It was on Auto Pict. I guess I was doing something wrong. Just getting my feet wet. Took 10 shots yesterday, and including shots from the other day including 3 really short videos have under 30 shots.

 

[The Stigenator]

The issue is not P&S vs DSLR the issue as teh security guard states is "intellectual property rights".

For instance you as a casual concert goer goes and takes pictures at a free concert, the outcome of those pictures could be 1. you keep it for yourself 2. you sell it.

If you sell it, the band does not get any $, nor does the promoter. However the promoter does not know if you are a casual shooter or a pro. But you got a Pro camera so it is assumed you are a pro.

If you took like 1 or 2 shots they would have not minded it. However if you were moving around taking lots of pictures and what not, guess what now you fall into the category of 'pro', therefore you are not allowed to take it.

They dont mind a P&S camera because they deem it not to be professional. Even though you can take pro quality pictures. I love the Canon G11 and the S5IS for this reason, looks like a P&S but really can do more if need be.

When shooting concerts, even as a pro, most bands only allow shooting the first 10 minutes, then you are done. You cant shoot anymore. The problem arises that in that first 10 minutes the bands most energetic (at least on that first song) so trying to get the money shot is extremely hard if you dont know what you are doing.

Anyway post what you got. Lets see the K-x in action.

 

[metalmania]

Set to Auto is fail.

 

[corkyg]

I regularly shoot trad jazz festivals. They do not object because they are not full time bands. The members have day jobs, so they don't mind pics and videos taken by their fans. So, it really does depend on the professional status of the band as to how they choose to protect their images. Such pictures are never sold, but are shared between fans, bands, and sponsors.

Your Bluegrass festival may fall into the same mold as I stated above.

BTW, my standard festival tool is my 5D w/200mm f/2.8. More than half the shots are low light requiring higher ISO.

 

[mmntech]

I don't know what the law is in the US, but the IP rights excuse is BS. As long as it's on public property, you can shoot it with just one party's consent (ie Yours), as long as it's not kids. If it's on private property though, he's right.

 

[Muse]

Set to Auto is fail.

I'm a DSLR newbie, just got the camera. I was advised to get my feet wet I should set it to auto the first day and get some familiarity with the controls.

 

[Muse]

I regularly shoot trad jazz festivals. They do not object because they are not full time bands. The members have day jobs, so they don't mind pics and videos taken by their fans. So, it really does depend on the professional status of the band as to how they choose to protect their images. Such pictures are never sold, but are shared between fans, bands, and sponsors.

Your Bluegrass festival may fall into the same mold as I stated above.

BTW, my standard festival tool is my 5D w/200mm f/2.8. More than half the shots are low light requiring higher ISO.

That's not a zoom lens? Seems not too versatile.

 

[Muse]

I don't know what the law is in the US, but the IP rights excuse is BS. As long as it's on public property, you can shoot it with just one party's consent (ie Yours), as long as it's not kids. If it's on private property though, he's right.

It just seems like such BS to me. Just about any band would be tickled to have their picture taken. Free publicity. The more the merrier. The status of that land, I don't know. I'll do some research. Anyway, I won't be back.

 

[alkemyst]

The main problem with allowing cameras today is audio recording. The next problem is many that sneak cameras in behind shooting overhead blocking other's views.

 

[notposting]

Also, many venues just end up doing this whether the actual performers request it or not. And you probably aren't going to have a fun and intellectually stimulating conversation on the issue with the big security guard.

 

[corkyg]

That's not a zoom lens? Seems not too versatile.

Sorry - left out 70-200mm f/2.8 L

And, agree with notposting. It can be a venue policy.

 

[Gooberlx2]

On a related note, it's definitely useful to have that wallet sized card printout of the "photographer's rights" guidelines. A friend of mine was recently hassled by someone when he was taking pics of public buildings.

 

[mooncancook]

How's the policy like on paid concerts? I went to a pop concert last year with my D90 and 18-200 lens. I was denied at the entrance because they said the lens is too big and therefore too "pro". I had to leave it in my car and use my Canon S5 instead. Also during the concert securities were telling ppl not to take videos. Some staff are more lax about it though.

 

[alkemyst]

How's the policy like on paid concerts? I went to a pop concert last year with my D90 and 18-200 lens. I was denied at the entrance because they said the lens is too big and therefore too "pro". I had to leave it in my car and use my Canon S5 instead. Also during the concert securities were telling ppl not to take videos. Some staff are more lax about it though.

Almost any venue has variable rules that they and the artist decide on. At certain events, even if the artist is ok with gear some venues are not. It's not that they are just worried about cameras getting snuck in though...it's weapons, drugs and booze being hidden today.

I agree that anything more than a P&S has no place in a concert save you having a private box.

 

[angry hampster]

I'm a DSLR newbie, just got the camera. I was advised to get my feet wet I should set it to auto the first day and get some familiarity with the controls.

Read your manual! It's not just a dummy guide..it will help you learn your camera's features inside and out and help you with photography in general. Also, if you're interested, I have "The Complete Digital Photography Manual" that I'd be willing to send out for free if you sent a few dollars my way for shipping. Some of the tech stuff is a little dated, but it's got great info pertaining to photography in general. Send me a PM if you're interested.

 

[mooncancook]

Almost any venue has variable rules that they and the artist decide on. At certain events, even if the artist is ok with gear some venues are not. It's not that they are just worried about cameras getting snuck in though...it's weapons, drugs and booze being hidden today.

I agree that anything more than a P&S has no place in a concert save you having a private box.

Well it was an Asian pop concert for the 80s and 90s gen, so most ppl there were Asians in the 30s, 40s and older, so it wasn't like a crazy atmosphere with lots teens and tweens. A dSLR was not that out of place there. The reason I brought my D90 was that I knew the lighting in the concert would be too dark for P&S. The photos taken by the S5 were pretty bad. Wish I had the Sony NEX-5 then. we haven't been to a concert in eons so at least now we know what to expect in terms of cameras.

 

[Muse]

The main problem with allowing cameras today is audio recording. The next problem is many that sneak cameras in behind shooting overhead blocking other's views.

Well, I was thinking about bringing my iRiver H140, but did not. That's capable of making a pretty good audio recording to WAV, but I think that concern is pretty bogus too. Anyway, my DSLR would make a crappy audio recording at best. It's got a tiny tiny tiny monophonic microphone.

I'm a pretty considerate person and would not have been blocking people's views. The guard told me that once the group started playing on stage, cameras were banned. I left before they took the stage, fairly disgusted. I hung out outside the amphitheater area for awhile, and took a few shots of people walking around, then exited the premises.

 

[Muse]

On a related note, it's definitely useful to have that wallet sized card printout of the "photographer's rights" guidelines. A friend of mine was recently hassled by someone when he was taking pics of public buildings.

First I've heard of it. Where can I get this? Where can I see it?

 

[Muse]

How's the policy like on paid concerts? I went to a pop concert last year with my D90 and 18-200 lens. I was denied at the entrance because they said the lens is too big and therefore too "pro". I had to leave it in my car and use my Canon S5 instead. Also during the concert securities were telling ppl not to take videos. Some staff are more lax about it though.

One of the people who I work with at college radio (volunteer at KALX, UC Berkeley's radio station), has a 5D she takes to shows. She's mainly into punk and I think there's not nearly as much restriction in that genre. They are very alternative and anti-authority. :awe:

 

[alkemyst]

First I've heard of it. Where can I get this? Where can I see it?

http://www.krages.com/phoright.htm

Or lesson #1 on how to get punched in the mouth if you are an asshole

Most places are private property that idiots try to show this thing.

 

[corkyg]

This is an excellent article on the subject by a very knowledgeable legal authority - he teaches law at U of Tennessee.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/tec...in-public-places-is-not-a-crime?click=main_sr

 

[alkemyst]

my link was Krages main site....he is the same attorney referenced in that popular mechanics piece.

Key thing though is there are a lot of private places now. Even some parks are privately owned.

 

[Muse]

This is an excellent article on the subject by a very knowledgeable legal authority - he teaches law at U of Tennessee.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/tec...in-public-places-is-not-a-crime?click=main_sr

Well, I read that article. Now according to this and to the early post here indicating that I'm entitled to take photos in public places, I believe that I was inappropriately approached and threatened (well, told I was not permitted to use my camera) by that security guard Sunday afternoon in Stern Grove at the music festival, free and open to the public and much promoted and advertised:
- - - -
From Wikipedia:

Sigmund Stern Recreation Grove, locally called Stern Grove, is a 33-acre (130,000 m2) recreational site in the Sunset District, San Francisco, California. It is administered by the city's Recreation and Parks Department, and is the concert setting for the 71-year-old (as of the 2008 season) Stern Grove Festival.

Further, it says:

The site, along Sloat Boulevard between 19th and 34th Avenues about two miles (3 km) south of the Golden Gate Park, was donated to the city in 1931 by Rosalie Meyer Stern, who named the park for her late husband Sigmund Stern, a philanthropist and a nephew of Levi Strauss.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sigmund_Stern_Recreation_Grove

 

[Muse]

When shooting concerts, even as a pro, most bands only allow shooting the first 10 minutes, then you are done. You cant shoot anymore. The problem arises that in that first 10 minutes the bands most energetic (at least on that first song) so trying to get the money shot is extremely hard if you dont know what you are doing.

Anyway post what you got. Lets see the K-x in action.

I didn't get anything. They were between bands and setting up for the headliner. The guard approached me long before the music started and I walked out of the outdoor amphitheater. Got a few shots of concert-goers, a shot or two of trees in the park.

There was a block party outside my house today and I went out and took lots of shots and several videos. How big a file can I post here? The JPGs are around 5.5MB. How big can they be to post. I'd like to post one.

 

[alkemyst]

There is more than it just being a public park though. You can reserve areas in public parks creating your own private zone.