NJ Gov Christie smacks down teachers union

[BlahBlahYouToo]

My wife is a teacher too, in NJ to boot.

In her district about 6 yrs ago there was incentive, read extra pay, for getting a graduate degree. So her and a bunch of her peers put in the extra effort to obtain the degree and reap the benefit. Subsequently it was negotiated out of their package the next contract. Too many people took advantage.

As for working 8-3, well thats not exactly the case, there are a number of things that happen that call for extra effort. As for the nine months, well until they make school a year round process thats not their fault.

Either way, Christie is a little over the top on what he is trying to do, there are alot of fish to fry in NJ, of course the easiest union to attack is the one most closely tied to the property tax insanity. Not saying he is wrong or right but maybe he should be looking at the administration side of things as well. Plenty of excess and corruption there too.

The teachers union isn't right either, most teachers really don't care for the message, they really just want to be there for the students.

Christie at least right now appears to have the balls to do something, how big those balls are come midterm elections and reelection time is another matter.

he'll come through. he doesn't about be re-elected. he seems genuinely concerned about righting what's wrong with the state, which is over spending.

 

[JACKHAMMER]

I call shens.

Believe it. I can provide the school report card if you like. Though, I live in the Chicago area and our schools are pretty good here.

Actually, after looking at 55% of the teachers in IL have Master's degress, almost 80% in my area - so perhaps schools are a little different in this state.

 

[ichy]

Either way, Christie is being very aggressive in going after the teachers union, since obviously the problem with the school system are all their fault. Maybe he should be looking at overhauling the administration side of things as well. How many school superintendents at 400k a year do we need?

I believe that Christie also wants to cap the pay of superintendents.

 

[JS80]

65k seems like a low average for a profession where a large percentage have graduate degrees. Especially with the cost of living in NJ.

But all the rich parents send their kids to private schools anyway, so this doesn't affect them. Only the deluded saps that read Fox News blogs think it's funny that the people teaching (raising) their kids are disgruntled and/or underpaid.

$65k plus cadillac medical plus unsustainable pension is way too much for a profession that brings ZERO value.

 

[PClark99]

he'll come through. he doesn't about be re-elected. he seems genuinely concerned about righting what's wrong with the state, which is over spending.

I hope so because its getting out of hand. But to be honest, he is a politician, they all lie. So I am doubtful. Once they have power they don't like to give it up. I think we really will be able to fully assess him better in another year.

I believe that Christie also wants to cap the pay of superintendents.

Thats a start, but if there are double or triple the number of superintendents than are actually needed.........

 

[JS80]

Public school teachers are overpaid overrated overinflated glorified daycare workers

 

[lupi]

Yes, actually we can say the benefit of 12+ weeks of vacation is part of the pay process.

 

[PClark99]

Public school teachers are overpaid overrated overinflated glorified daycare workers

Most government, public, political employess are quiet useless. Not so sure your blanket statement applies to all teachers or employees in general. Some, maybe, but not all.

 

[RedCOMET]

The teachers union isn't right either, most teachers really don't care for the message, they really just want to be there for the students.

I think the public and voters in general would like to hear that from the Teachers themselves and not the "spokes person" or some union leader.

Also, my GF taught 7-grade math for two years and her students out performed the students that had more experienced/senior teachers. She wasn't doing teaching as a career, she did teach for america (hence the teaching for 2 yrs) to get money for grad school. Of course, she wants to do education policy in grad school.

 

[ichy]

Public school teachers are overpaid overrated overinflated glorified daycare workers

Thanks for that brilliant and insightful comment

That being said, if the state is feeling pain then the teachers aren't exempt from feeling it. They'll just have to make do with less.

 

[PClark99]

I think the public and voters in general would like to hear that from the Teachers themselves and not the "spokes person" or some union leader.

Also, my GF taught 7-grade math for two years and her students out performed the students that had more experienced/senior teachers. She wasn't doing teaching as a career, she did teach for america (hence the teaching for 2 yrs) to get money for grad school. Of course, she wants to do education policy in grad school.

Problem is you won't get a teacher to come out and say that in public. They would get totally F'd by the union. If you don't toe the line you are dead to them.

 

[JACKHAMMER]

$65k plus cadillac medical plus unsustainable pension is way too much for a profession that brings ZERO value.

YUP, education has zero value. Are you that clueless?

 

[StageLeft]

I have a relative who is a teacher, though not in NJ or even in the US. This person is working towards a masters now. Why? For extra pay. That is the ONLY reason. Their employer is paying for it and once they get it they will make extra money. I have no idea why. My current private employer will pay for a degree for me but only if it actually contributes to my profession. That seems like common sense to me but a person who should in theory already be a good teacher to their kids in, say, grade 10 history why do they need a masters? It's rather silly to brainlessly give raises simply because of a credential.

One interesting problem with teachers is that I don't think their salary is necessarily commensurate with efficacy at all. Think about a fresh out of school teacher making $25k and teaching a class room of kids next door to a 55 year old teacher making $78k teaching the same kids. Ridiculous. In almost all professions as you gain seniority you gain pay because you are delivering more value to your employer.

I dare say new teachers are severely underpaid and old ones over. To be honest I think all pensions should be fvcking hacked to pieces right here and now anyway, they are gargantuanely unsustainable.

 

[JS80]

Most government, public, political employess are quiet useless. Not so sure your blanket statement applies to all teachers or employees in general. Some, maybe, but not all.

When referring to a group, "as a hole" is implied.

 

[CPA]

Either way, Christie is being very aggressive in going after the teachers union, since obviously the problem with the school system are all their fault. Maybe he should be looking at overhauling the administration side of things as well. How many school superintendents at 400k a year do we need?

The teachers union isn't right either, most teachers really don't care for the message, they really just want to be there for the students.

Christie at least right now appears to have the balls to do something, how big those balls are come midterm elections and reelection time is another matter.

If you've ever listened to Christie, which I don't believe you have, he has said many times that the administration is bloated and needs to be cut down significantly, but it's the school boards that make the hiring and salary decisions. The only way he can impact that is to cut the money supplied to them. If the school districts impose the cuts on the teachers then the teachers need to ask the school districts why they aren't chopping administration.

 

[evident]

Next up for NJ = get rid of the multitude of municipalities.

this was the first thing they should have done. the cops in that state are 100x worse than their teacher problem.

 

[JS80]

YUP, education has zero value. Are you that clueless?

Most public school teachers do NOT provide an education. They provide daycare. Think back to your school days. Did you learn shit? No. Most education is from self learning, and your parents sitting you down and making you read your textbook and do your homework.

If some 2.0 GPA douchebag who couldn't get a real job standing in front of 30 children and reading from the teacher's guide is your definition of education, then yea, teachers provide education.

 

[cumhail]

YUP, education has zero value. Are you that clueless?

You must be new around here...

 

[JACKHAMMER]

I have a relative who is a teacher, though not in NJ or even in the US. This person is working towards a masters now. Why? For extra pay. That is the ONLY reason. Their employer is paying for it and once they get it they will make extra money. I have no idea why. My current private employer will pay for a degree for me but only if it actually contributes to my profession. That seems like common sense to me but a person who should in theory already be a good teacher to their kids in, say, grade 10 history why do they need a masters? It's rather silly to brainlessly give raises simply because of a credential.

One interesting problem with teachers is that I don't think their salary is necessarily commensurate with efficacy at all. Think about a fresh out of school teacher making $25k and teaching a class room of kids next door to a 55 year old teacher making $78k teaching the same kids. Ridiculous. In almost all professions as you gain seniority you gain pay because you are delivering more value to your employer.

I dare say new teachers are severely underpaid and old ones over. To be honest I think all pensions should be fvcking hacked to pieces right here and now anyway, they are gargantuanely unsustainable.

So your saying getting a better understanding of what you teaching, like a history teacher getting a history masters, will in no way contribute to their profession or the education they provide? And I would guess that an experienced teacher would be more valuable with things like classroom management, learning strategies, etc. Though I would agree the floor should probably come up, and the ceiling down -which wont really change average wages or cost tax payers less.

 

[HeXploiT]

New Jersey will be treading water in two years when New York and California are drowning.

California(and a few other states) will look like Greece in two years.

 

[PClark99]

If you've ever listened to Christie, which I don't believe you have, he has said many times that the administration is bloated and needs to be cut down significantly, but it's the school boards that make the hiring and salary decisions. The only way he can impact that is to cut the money supplied to them. If the school districts impose the cuts on the teachers then the teachers need to ask the school districts why they aren't chopping administration.

Please don't tell me what I do or do not listen to. Thanks.

I know he has said things about administration but he has been far more aggressive in his verbiage in dealing with the teachers union than he has with the administrators. I could have missed something though because I don't really follow things that much. I don't think he has talked about administration that strongly has he?

I agree with your point he does have a hand tied behind his back with regard to how he has to handle the situation.

 

[thepd7]

Do you expect to be compensated for taking the pay cut and raise when the economy turns around? Do you think your company will compensate you for your "sacrifice" when the economy comes around?

Yes I do. If I don't have a 20% raise in the next (it's extremely likely) then I'll be moving on.

$65k plus cadillac medical plus unsustainable pension is way too much for a profession that brings ZERO value.

Most public school teachers do NOT provide an education. They provide daycare. Think back to your school days. Did you learn shit? No. Most education is from self learning, and your parents sitting you down and making you read your textbook and do your homework.

If some 2.0 GPA douchebag who couldn't get a real job standing in front of 30 children and reading from the teacher's guide is your definition of education, then yea, teachers provide education.

You are really bitter, you must have had really bad teachers. My teachers were incredible and I learned a ton from them, moved on to college my junior year of high school and had a full ride to a good engineering program.

I agree that parents are just as or more important to your education but teachers are really key.

 

[JACKHAMMER]

Most public school teachers do NOT provide an education. They provide daycare. Think back to your school days. Did you learn shit? No. Most education is from self learning, and your parents sitting you down and making you read your textbook and do your homework.

If some 2.0 GPA douchebag who couldn't get a real job standing in front of 30 children and reading from the teacher's guide is your definition of education, then yea, teachers provide education.

Yes, I did learn a whole bunch in school. I worked hard, my parents cared, and the teachers provided me with an excellent education. Perhaps your experience was different, or you were in the 'dummy' track - but to call your experience universal is untrue. To imply all teachers were a 2.0 GPA is a joke as well, I had some outstanding HS teachers (some garbage ones too). And BTW, school is cheaper than day-care.

I pay our daycare lady $6/hr. Now if I were a teacher and got $6/hr for each kid in class (30X6 = 180) teaching 6 hrs a day (180X6 = $1080) that would be $1080 a day. It's a good thing we don't pay our teachers like daycare, it would bankrupt us.

 

[PClark99]

If we had to pay teachers daycare rates per student I would be driving a big mercedes with bling bling wheels.

Things are out of control.

In my wife's district, the frickin aide's have a union.

They make $25 an hour, yes, $25 an hour, to sit on their asses, drink coffee, and gossip.

God forbid she ask one to actually do their job, they get a nasty look on their faces.

 

[Zargon]

Most employess are quiet useless.

fixed that for you

If we had to pay teachers daycare rates per student I would be driving a big mercedes with bling bling wheels.

Things are out of control.

In my wife's district, the frickin aide's have a union.

They make $25 an hour, yes, $25 an hour, to sit on their asses, drink coffee, and gossip.

God forbid she ask one to actually do their job, they get a nasty look on their faces.

whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat for aides? thats what my wife makes teaching per hour based on contracted hours, which is slightly more than I make...

Believe it. I can provide the school report card if you like. Though, I live in the Chicago area and our schools are pretty good here.

Actually, after looking at 55% of the teachers in IL have Master's degress, almost 80% in my area - so perhaps schools are a little different in this state.

thast because I can say I gues second hand that a masters in education is a goddamn joke. my wife is getting hers in administration and I laugh at what she calls her hard class. She is cruising to a 4.0 for her masters and she is not what I would call 4.0 GPA material.