Nissan Z: 400hp, $40k, manual

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NutBucket

Lifer
Aug 30, 2000
27,033
545
126
I wasn't saying that at all. What I was saying is that very few people would want an electric Z.
EV's are more than just electric powered, they have changed the entire way in which cars are designed. There's no need for an electric sports car to have a long nose and be RWD only. Or an MT. All of those were design requirements to accommodate the ICE.
While this is true, changing all those design elements would mean the car in question is no longer a Z. There are a lot of people out there who want a "normal" looking car that happens to be electric.
 

Heartbreaker

Diamond Member
Apr 3, 2006
4,222
5,224
136
Right, because people wouldn't possibly want electric sports cars...

I do think already declining interest in sports cars, will decline even more when most cars are electric.

The Z is already unpopular, so I don't see much point in a electric version.
 

manly

Lifer
Jan 25, 2000
10,907
2,058
126
I do think already declining interest in sports cars, will decline even more when most cars are electric.

The Z is already unpopular, so I don't see much point in a electric version.
Oddly enough, Acura is releasing an Integra for 2022 and dropped hints that an electric NSX could be in the cards. It's as if Japanese manufacturers collectively lost their minds and decided to flood the zone with interesting sports cars one last time before the market collapses.
 

Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
48,387
5,255
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While this is true, changing all those design elements would mean the car in question is no longer a Z. There are a lot of people out there who want a "normal" looking car that happens to be electric.

This is my quandary with the Mach-E. To me, it's not a Mustang...an AWD electric 4-door SUV is not a RWD ICE stick-shift coupe. It's a great car by itself (my mind was VERY much changed once I test-drove it!), but it changed the character of the Mustang too much for me to see it as a Mustang. I think there would be a market for an electric Z, particularly if they were brave enough to make it stick-shift, just for funsies. I'd try it!
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
110,511
29,093
146
the design looks unfinished for me. Like a promise it could look as good as the old one, but not there yet.

My only issue is with the front-on view. I think because of the grill and the rest of the facia around it. I think it's too large for this car, going with the contemporary trend for fat, "Aston-Martin like" grills on every car to make it look premium. I don't mind that trend for a lot of designs, but it doesn't work with this design that really wants to go back to that 80s-90s look. I think if the grill were smaller, a bit rounder on the edges to match the refreshing re-appearance of curves on the rest of this car, it would be perfect.

The rear-quarter-rear view of this car is some of the best design I have seen recently. It's really sharp. I think maybe people are underappreciating their ability to avoid a lot of the current boxiness and angularity that you see today, and still keep to contemporary safety standards and, one assumes, performance.
 

pauldun170

Diamond Member
Sep 26, 2011
9,133
5,072
136
Oddly enough, Acura is releasing an Integra for 2022 and dropped hints that an electric NSX could be in the cards. It's as if Japanese manufacturers collectively lost their minds and decided to flood the zone with interesting sports cars one last time before the market collapses.
My guess is that the integra will be an update and rebranding of the current ILX.
It will just be another small sedan with a power bump over the current model and "features"

Noone cares about the NSX anymore outside of 20 people with money to buy it and 20000 keyboard warriors who either can't afford it or will go ahead and buy the SUV they were going to buy anyway.
 

Heartbreaker

Diamond Member
Apr 3, 2006
4,222
5,224
136
Oddly enough, Acura is releasing an Integra for 2022 and dropped hints that an electric NSX could be in the cards. It's as if Japanese manufacturers collectively lost their minds and decided to flood the zone with interesting sports cars one last time before the market collapses.

Flood? The Z is just a refresh of an already existing car. Actual recent new cars were the Supra and teased Integra.
 

Justinus

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 2005
3,166
1,508
136
My only issue is with the front-on view. I think because of the grill and the rest of the facia around it. I think it's too large for this car, going with the contemporary trend for fat, "Aston-Martin like" grills on every car to make it look premium. I don't mind that trend for a lot of designs, but it doesn't work with this design that really wants to go back to that 80s-90s look. I think if the grill were smaller, a bit rounder on the edges to match the refreshing re-appearance of curves on the rest of this car, it would be perfect.

The rear-quarter-rear view of this car is some of the best design I have seen recently. It's really sharp. I think maybe people are underappreciating their ability to avoid a lot of the current boxiness and angularity that you see today, and still keep to contemporary safety standards and, one assumes, performance.

The size of the grille/opening may have been a requirement for the cooling necessary for a performance car with that twin turbo V6 - needs to get enough air for the air-water intercooler(s), oil cooler, transmission cooler, radiator, and I bet that engine is a hot little piece.
 

Commodus

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 2004
9,206
6,799
136
I'm in the "this should have been electric" camp. It's not so much about what the spirit of a car should be so much as just that... this will be a 2023 model, launching into a market where it could probably be smoked by someone picking up their kids from school in a Model 3.

That and I'm not one to get hung up on tradition. A badge means something, but it's not everything... the Z is whatever makes it a fun car to drive, and in this decade that should mean making it electric.
 

manly

Lifer
Jan 25, 2000
10,907
2,058
126
Flood? The Z is just a refresh of an already existing car. Actual recent new cars were the Supra and teased Integra.
You already know this, but amidst dwindling sales, nearly all of the iconic Japanese sports cars of the 1990s were gone by 2010. By 2018, you had few mainstream options left but notice they didn't really compete against each other: 370Z, Miata and Subaru BRZ. I don't care that automakers are committing fresh dollars to a dying market segment; that is their prerogative.

I think it's safe to say aficionados of manual transmissions and sports cars should know they have a limited window to shop for these autos before some are canceled permanently.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
110,511
29,093
146
The size of the grille/opening may have been a requirement for the cooling necessary for a performance car with that twin turbo V6 - needs to get enough air for the air-water intercooler(s), oil cooler, transmission cooler, radiator, and I bet that engine is a hot little piece.

for sure. I'm wondering if they could have considered some actual active vents in that hood to compensate, which maybe could either give more room for some functional bends in the design, or at the least, keep those straight lines, but cut deeper into the hood to make them useful.

my next thought, then, is that this sort of design is probably waaaaay more expensive than I want to imagine, lol (maintain rigidity across the hood, protection from elements and road shmutz, cost of design and manufacturing of a more complicated piece, all that)...yeah, I think a lot of options like this wouldn't have allowed them to keep a low $40k price on it.

But imagine...a limited update or serious trim package, or just a custom body kit or smthg....
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
110,511
29,093
146
I want this in a rag top! Am I dreaming?

maybe? I look at a car like that and I want it as stiff and rigid as possible. It's got a mechanical LSD, so the only thing I want to do is see how fast it can take every damn turn, and then launch out,. lol. What else do you want to do with it?

...I'm now curious (and a bit bothered!) about the torque range
 

Heartbreaker

Diamond Member
Apr 3, 2006
4,222
5,224
136
The size of the grille/opening may have been a requirement for the cooling necessary for a performance car with that twin turbo V6 - needs to get enough air for the air-water intercooler(s), oil cooler, transmission cooler, radiator, and I bet that engine is a hot little piece.

No. Not remotely. Even a Dodge Demon with 700+ HP supercharged V8 doesn't need a grill that big.

The grill is just a styling exercise.
 

Justinus

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 2005
3,166
1,508
136
No. Not remotely. Even a Dodge Demon with 700+ HP supercharged V8 doesn't need a grill that big.

The grill is just a styling exercise.

I'd be willing to bet the total surface area of the grills + hood scoop on this is more than the surface area of the Z grill. Also the demon has its air conditioning system connected to help provide additional cooling when required for more power. Also power density and overall engine design make a huge difference in how much cooling is required, or how prone to overheating/how hot the engine runs. Both engines are pushing similar power for displacement figures.

1629990551925.png


Cooling for small displacement high power turbo engines is a huge, huge deal. Just ask all the type R owners tracking their cars about how much they like their engine overheating. Honda had to make the grille even bigger for 2021 model year and it still overheats.

You may not like how big the grille is, but I think it's great. We don't need more poorly designed form over function performance cars that can't handle the driving they were marketed and intended for.
 
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Heartbreaker

Diamond Member
Apr 3, 2006
4,222
5,224
136
I'd be willing to bet the total surface area of the grills + hood scoop on this is more than the surface area of the Z grill.

Active area I suspect is higher on the Demon, because it's making much more power.

I also expect the new Z, grill area is mostly blocked off, as it is on most modern cars.

Big grills on modern cars are a styling affectation, just as they are on the Z, with most of the area typically just solid blacked out plastic serving no function.
 

Justinus

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 2005
3,166
1,508
136
Active area I suspect is higher on the Demon, because it's making much more power.

I also expect the new Z, grill area is mostly blocked off, as it is on most modern cars.

Big grills on modern cars are a styling affectation, just as they are on the Z, with most of the area typically just solid blacked out plastic serving no function.

1629995041352.png

This photo is accurate. The grille is entirely open save for that splitter in the center of the lower part. Multiple "reviewers" lauded the production version of the new Z about how none of the grille was fake.
 

Heartbreaker

Diamond Member
Apr 3, 2006
4,222
5,224
136
This is probably more representative of active area, since you don't want to cripple your test car:
EDE0KBBDSsalZXaCOQ9hgg
 
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Justinus

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 2005
3,166
1,508
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This is probably more representative of active area, since you don't want to cripple your test car:
EDE0KBBDSsalZXaCOQ9hgg

1630007492469.png

You're right, the lower half of the rectangular vents are fake.

The youtubers that do these autoshows and "review" cars that they can only look at are retarded.

"No fake grilles here" my ass.
 

pauldun170

Diamond Member
Sep 26, 2011
9,133
5,072
136
I'm in the "this should have been electric" camp. It's not so much about what the spirit of a car should be so much as just that... this will be a 2023 model, launching into a market where it could probably be smoked by someone picking up their kids from school in a Model 3.

That and I'm not one to get hung up on tradition. A badge means something, but it's not everything... the Z is whatever makes it a fun car to drive, and in this decade that should mean making it electric.

Z is "supposed" to be sports car.
Nissan is also in a bit of a pickle when it comes to $$$
For a Z to make sense, it can't just be another 2+ ton electric car. Then it no longer fits into the Z's category or price point.
It also means that the existing FM platform won't be suitable and they would need to come up with a completely new platform, and then have other model share the sane platform for cost saving.
If they go light on the battery then it has no range.
If they want to call it a sports car, then it should be able to handle track work, meaning multiple sessions and not just a you tube video of 2 laps on you tube.
Tough with the lighter smaller battery pack used for weight savings and toss in cooling and other crap....
I don't see Nissan having the resources for an electric Z when they have no other suitable platform.
They have the Leaf...which is a short distance communter special that has a gimped battery and they have the Ariya SUV coming soon.

It makes more sense to do a mild design refresh on the FM platform while there is still money to be made on gas engines and they get their footing with a better EV platform
 
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Muadib

Lifer
May 30, 2000
17,914
838
126
maybe? I look at a car like that and I want it as stiff and rigid as possible. It's got a mechanical LSD, so the only thing I want to do is see how fast it can take every damn turn, and then launch out,. lol. What else do you want to do with it?

...I'm now curious (and a bit bothered!) about the torque range
I wouldn't be taking the Z to the track, so I don't want it too stiff. I believe I read it will have 350 lb-ft of torque. I can't help but compare the Z to the Supra, and the 400hp gives the Z the edge. As for what I want to do with it, I'd like to drive it with the wind in my hair. Sadly it looks like I'm in for a bit of a wait.
 

sdifox

No Lifer
Sep 30, 2005
94,665
14,929
126
I wouldn't be taking the Z to the track, so I don't want it too stiff. I believe I read it will have 350 lb-ft of torque. I can't help but compare the Z to the Supra, and the 400hp gives the Z the edge. As for what I want to do with it, I'd like to drive it with the wind in my hair. Sadly it looks like I'm in for a bit of a wait.


You'll have no hair by then. Really don't get convertibles.