Nissan workers at Miss. plant vote against unionizing

[compcons]

I said nothing about designing cars.

I think the point is that Detroit didn't fail because of unions (and pay and benefits for workers) but rather because they produced crappy products for decades and were unable to compete with foreign brands. Even when they did produce good cars, very few foreign countries wanted the types of cars trucks Detroit was producing. I would also add that our wonderful trade policies skewed in favor of foreign brands being imported vs. American brands being exported.

 

[senseamp]

It's too little too late for unions. The left should focus on the post-work world that is coming, not building a worker paradise. Think universal welfare, not union labor.

 

[agent00f]

The Japanese manufacturers already pay similar and have similar benefits to the UAW contracts at organized sites. I

It's the same here in Canada. My wife has several family members working at different Toyota plants in Woodstock and Cambridge and every few years a new organization drive occurs. And every year it gets voted down because the staff are already treated well and don't see a need to set the union loose.

So non-unions places competes on wages with union ones, akin to right to work states. Gee I wonder happens when the latter disappears, akin to right to work states.

Btw, auto manufacturing is unionized in Japan and germany. Must be why they're total failures.

I used to have a job that became unionized, we ended up taking a 30% pay cut and were paid well below industry standards. I also used to manage bargained employees and all the union did was make it so it was more difficult for management and the employees to work together. We were forced to micro manage and constantly document and write people up because the union would try to get their people off on technicalities. Oddly, the ones worth saving they never fought for.

Not all unions are the same and certainly some companies are worse than others but if a company treats its employees well and pays them well then why the hell would they need a union in the first place?

Would anyone like to show how these workers are paid compared to their union counterparts and how their treatment compares? Its kind of hard to say that they voted against their best interests when you aren't aware of all the facts.

Just because some people are shit at bargaining doesn't mean bargaining is worthless.

 

[ivwshane]

So non-unions places competes on wages with union ones, akin to right to work states. Gee I wonder happens when the latter disappears, akin to right to work states.

Btw, auto manufacturing is unionized in Japan and germany. Must be why they're total failures.



Just because some people are shit at bargaining doesn't mean bargaining is worthless.

Of course and I believe I stated as much.

 

[umbrella39]

You do realize that 80% of the "fucktards" at this particular facility are African-American. These weren't white trailer trash degenerates voting against their self-interest to stigginit to those damn dirty liberals.

You do realize that Japanese factories and the way they operate are distinct and different from how American factories operate. The Japanese have an almost obsessive commitment to quality, and the traditional barriers that exist between line workers and management are far different than conditions in American factories. The Japanese treat their line workers quite well, it's part of their entire production model.

Check out "The Machine that Changed the World", it might provide some insights as to why workers at a Japanese factory in America may not see a reason to unionize.

Since when are black people immune to voting against their best interests? One need look no further than Detroit for that answer, right? The racial makeup of the people voting makes no difference to me... dumb is dumb. Black or white... and BTW - this is not Japan, thankfully...

 

[nickqt]

I said nothing about designing cars.

You said that the Unions made Detroit into a shit heep, which, of course, allows the narrative to be maintained that Unions (the workers on the line, the Union officers) are to blame for Detroit, and not capitalism and the capitalist class themselves.

Detroit became, essentially, a company town because of GM. Which, in the long run, is always a bad thing. Designing shit cars because competition had been lax for decades is what led GM to have declining profits, and the inability to KEEP THEIR CONTRACTUAL BARGAINS with the Unions.

But like you show over and over, you're brain has been warped from your Masters' directly shitting into it for the past 30+ years, so, of course it was the Unions that caused the company town of Detroit to fail, and not the people with the money and power operating GM negligently. Because, uh, Unions suck and stuff, y'all.

 

[evident]

I think the UAW gives other modern day unions a bad rap. I think our union does its best to work with the corporation/management while maintaining some of our benefits.

 

[Starbuck1975]

Since when are black people immune to voting against their best interests? One need look no further than Detroit for that answer, right? The racial makeup of the people voting makes no difference to me... dumb is dumb. Black or white... and BTW - this is not Japan, thankfully...

They're not, although I was under the impression that only race realist degenerates would even consider thinking such a thing.

There is a fault line growing, between the traditional labor base of liberalism and the tech oligarchs who want to automate it all and relegate them to some absurd universal welfare prison. Did I say prison, I meant utopia.

 

[Puffnstuff]

I think the UAW gives other modern day unions a bad rap. I think our union does its best to work with the corporation/management while maintaining some of our benefits.

My last union, the USW, was losing membership so they resorted to variable weekly dues as a percentage of wages earned rather than the traditional fixed amount. This allowed them to dramatically increase their cash flows with a dwindling membership so they could maintain their business activities. This kind of parasitic cash drain was never the intention of the National Labor Relations Act of 1935 and Senator Robert F Wagner would be rolling in his grave if he could see how the unions behave today.

 

[Svnla]

It ain't over yet, union rep said so - https://amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/aug/05/mississippi-nissan-workers-vote-against-union

I think the UAW gives other modern day unions a bad rap. I think our union does its best to work with the corporation/management while maintaining some of our benefits.

Not sure about that.

Look at these Teamsters, tires cut, females being called "c#nt", etc.

- https://www.yahoo.com/news/protesters-physically-threatened-yelled-racist-174303960.html

 

[Puffnstuff]

It ain't over yet, union rep said so - https://amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/aug/05/mississippi-nissan-workers-vote-against-union



Not sure about that.

Look at these Teamsters, tires cut, females being called "c#nt", etc.

- https://www.yahoo.com/news/protesters-physically-threatened-yelled-racist-174303960.html

You should watch the traditional UAW workers behavior towards women during a strike.

 

[senseamp]

If unions were smart, they would be fighting for universal single payer instead of pricier health benefits from the employer. Because that's where their members' wage increases went.

 

[pcgeek11]

I think the point is that Detroit didn't fail because of unions (and pay and benefits for workers) but rather because they produced crappy products for decades and were unable to compete with foreign brands. Even when they did produce good cars, very few foreign countries wanted the types of cars trucks Detroit was producing. I would also add that our wonderful trade policies skewed in favor of foreign brands being imported vs. American brands being exported.

Wrong. That wasn't 100% the issue, but to say it had no bearing is completely false.

 

[pcgeek11]

You said that the Unions made Detroit into a shit heep, which, of course, allows the narrative to be maintained that Unions (the workers on the line, the Union officers) are to blame for Detroit, and not capitalism and the capitalist class themselves.

Detroit became, essentially, a company town because of GM. Which, in the long run, is always a bad thing. Designing shit cars because competition had been lax for decades is what led GM to have declining profits, and the inability to KEEP THEIR CONTRACTUAL BARGAINS with the Unions.

But like you show over and over, you're brain has been warped from your Masters' directly shitting into it for the past 30+ years, so, of course it was the Unions that caused the company town of Detroit to fail, and not the people with the money and power operating GM negligently. Because, uh, Unions suck and stuff, y'all.

I never said the union was the only reason. It is a very large part of it.

And you are saying what? That the unions had nothing to do with running Detroit into the ground?

 

[nickqt]

I never said the union was the only reason. It is a very large part of it.

And you are saying what? That the unions had nothing to do with running Detroit into the ground?

No, you're the one who blamed what is now Detroit on the Unions. As if it was the Unions who turned Detroit into a company town, and then negligently ran the place into the ground. Because, again, you have a narrative, and it must always be adhered to.

 

[pcgeek11]

No, you're the one who blamed what is now Detroit on the Unions. As if it was the Unions who turned Detroit into a company town, and then negligently ran the place into the ground. Because, again, you have a narrative, and it must always be adhered to.

They are just as responsible as the Automakers in Detroit.

Are you saying that they didn't have any responsibility for it? An answer would be nice. Or are you going to divert again.

 

[agent00f]

You do realize that 80% of the "fucktards" at this particular facility are African-American. These weren't white trailer trash degenerates voting against their self-interest to stigginit to those damn dirty liberals.

You do realize that Japanese factories and the way they operate are distinct and different from how American factories operate. The Japanese have an almost obsessive commitment to quality, and the traditional barriers that exist between line workers and management are far different than conditions in American factories. The Japanese treat their line workers quite well, it's part of their entire production model.

Check out "The Machine that Changed the World", it might provide some insights as to why workers at a Japanese factory in America may not see a reason to unionize.

It provided the insight that the japanese treated workers well because they were basically impossible to fire due to post war labor laws. Seems like a typical conservative you didn't bother to read what you pretend to cite.

 

[Starbuck1975]

It provided the insight that the japanese treated workers well because they were basically impossible to fire due to post war labor laws. Seems like a typical conservative you didn't bother to read what you pretend to cite.

Japanese post war labor laws had very little to do with the brilliance of the Taiichi Ohno and the Toyota Productions System. It was one of several contributing factors, but not central to the Japanese manufacturing story.

Seems like a typical professor flail maneuver to cherry pick one distracting detail from Wikipedia and then apply the DERP filter:

Degenerates
Enlightened
Race Realists
Pandering

 

[brycejones]

They are just as responsible as the Automakers in Detroit.

Are you saying that they didn't have any responsibility for it? An answer would be nice. Or are you going to divert again.

Oh look another round of pcgeek says a thing and then says he didn't. Dude own your words, admit when you over simplify to blame those you dislike and that the world is not as black and white as you like to make it appear in your posts. You blamed the UAW exclusively in your original post for ruining Detroit full stop.

 

[jmagg]

It's too little too late for unions. The left should focus on the post-work world that is coming, not building a worker paradise. Think universal welfare, not union labor.

Yup, only rich and poor is the way. Hey, at least you got a response if sarc

 

[bshole]

Japanese post war labor laws had very little to do with the brilliance of the Taiichi Ohno and the Toyota Productions System. It was one of several contributing factors, but not central to the Japanese manufacturing story.

Seems like a typical professor flail maneuver to cherry pick one distracting detail from Wikipedia and then apply the DERP filter:

Degenerates
Enlightened
Race Realists
Pandering

Toyota vehicles are on a whole different plane of existence than American vehicles. I couldn't imagine driving an unreliable shitty American car ever again. Life is too short to be wasted in a crappy car.

 

[Puffnstuff]

They are just as responsible as the Automakers in Detroit.

Are you saying that they didn't have any responsibility for it? An answer would be nice. Or are you going to divert again.

People often forget about how they deliberately left tools in cars rattling around in the body panels or couldn't be bothered to install all of the fasteners on the assembly line. I certainly haven't forgotten my GM experiences which is why I will never buy from them again.

 

[Iron Woode]

The Japanese manufacturers already pay similar and have similar benefits to the UAW contracts at organized sites. I

It's the same here in Canada. My wife has several family members working at different Toyota plants in Woodstock and Cambridge and every few years a new organization drive occurs. And every year it gets voted down because the staff are already treated well and don't see a need to set the union loose.

my father was a member of the CAW in Ford Talbotville. He hated the union and it's corruption. He could tell you many stories about the BS he saw.

 

[bshole]

my father was a member of the CAW in Ford Talbotville. He hated the union and it's corruption. He could tell you many stories about the BS he saw.

Yea, what the hell did unions ever do....

 

[agent00f]

Japanese post war labor laws had very little to do with the brilliance of the Taiichi Ohno and the Toyota Productions System. It was one of several contributing factors, but not central to the Japanese manufacturing story.

Seems like a typical professor flail maneuver to cherry pick one distracting detail from Wikipedia and then apply the DERP filter:

Degenerates
Enlightened
Race Realists
Pandering

It was literally the motivation for kaizen, and the book you didn't read explains why.