Nintendon't: The Case Against the Wii.

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giantpinkbunnyhead

Diamond Member
Dec 7, 2005
3,251
1
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I think the reviewer is angry about small things that aren't "really" issues. So his remote doesn't line up perfectly with the screen?? Why didn't he calibrate it. He's upset that you don't HAVE to actually stand up and swing the remote; you merely need to flick your wrist. But, he COULD stand up and actually swing it like a bat and get the same result. But because he chooses not to, he insults the thing for not requiring it. Bottom line... you can get fully into it, or you can merely flick your wrist.

I've had the console for a few days now and it's good for what you'd expect at that price point. For $250, I don't expect razor sharp response on the remote cursor movements or jaw-dropping graphics.
 

skace

Lifer
Jan 23, 2001
14,488
7
81
As far as I can tell VIAN hates Wii, PS3, DS, PSP. He also hated Final Fantasy 4 and compared Valve to EA.

I'm honestly not sure the point of this thread, are we supposed to be arguing the validity of the Wii's control system based on 1 article from the Slate?
 

VIAN

Diamond Member
Aug 22, 2003
6,575
1
0
Originally posted by: Kromis
So uhh...

Who's side are you on, VIAN?
In relation to what?

Originally posted by: skace
As far as I can tell VIAN hates Wii, PS3, DS, PSP. He also hated Final Fantasy 4 and compared Valve to EA.

I'm honestly not sure the point of this thread, are we supposed to be arguing the validity of the Wii's control system based on 1 article from the Slate?
The point of the thread was to give people another look at the Wii. The overhyped, I wanna touch one... Wii. From what I gather, the Wii controller isn't the best working controller around and it's not even that much fun, after the novelty wears off.

Yes. Hate, hate, hate spreads everywhere... from my black heart. J/k. I like some things, but more often than not, there are more things to dislike. Check here for most of the console games that I've liked. It's a big list. And those aren't even including PC games, where there are 15+ of.
 

BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
37,562
9
81
Originally posted by: Kromis
So uhh...

Who's side are you on, VIAN?

Why does everything have to come down to sides? Some information is good, more information is better. I'm happy to see opinions from people that both like and dislike any given product.

That said, I still plan to pick up a Wii eventually. I know my daughter and I will have a blast playing games with a more interactive controller.
 

skace

Lifer
Jan 23, 2001
14,488
7
81
Originally posted by: VIAN
The point of the thread was to give people another look at the Wii. The overhyped, I wanna touch one... Wii. From what I gather, the Wii controller isn't the best working controller around and it's not even that much fun, after the novelty wears off.

From what you gather from .... Slate? You had to dig deep to find your negative opinion. And then you use that one negative opinion to fuel your whole campaign.
 

skace

Lifer
Jan 23, 2001
14,488
7
81
Originally posted by: BoberFett
Why does everything have to come down to sides?

Because that review is piss poor and it is being used to form an entire opinion for Vian. When people usually go to these lengths to form negative opinions it shows a pre-existing bias towards something. He didn't want to find out that the Wii is good, he wanted to find someone who validated his opinion that it would suck. Validation, even if it comes from a retarded review that starts with a horrible catch phrase "Nintendon't" from an age old Sega ad campaign. A review that is pretty abysmal in terms of actually reviewing the unit and everything included in it, it acts more of a gloss over that simply lists the things that annoyed the reviewer.

To top it off, the reviewer ends it by labeling himself a hardcore gamer. God that phrase gets thrown around so much these days. Let me guess, he played CS last week and got his ass kicked, now hes hardcore. Let me know when he beats nethack, posts his fps speed run videos or does something even remotely note worthy to justify the claim.

And yes, a hardcore gamer who could not figure out how to calibrate his wiimote. Congrats on your hardcoreness dude.
 

Aikouka

Lifer
Nov 27, 2001
30,383
912
126
Originally posted by: skace
And yes, a hardcore gamer who could not figure out how to calibrate his wiimote. Congrats on your hardcoreness dude.

Actually, yes, that is being quite hardcore. No self-serving hardcore gamer EVER reads the instructions unless they include some sort of story or lore, which is quickly gobbled up like a LOTR marathon and then they jump right into gaming.

That, my friend, is HARDCORE! It's hardcore like me reading every single "book" inside World of Warcraft just to read the stories, which includes making groups stop in Scarlet Stratholme going, "HEY HEY WAIT! I wanna read this book!" or "Hey, can we kill those 2 Crimson Monks that we don't have to so I can read the books?"
 

skace

Lifer
Jan 23, 2001
14,488
7
81
Originally posted by: Aikouka
That, my friend, is HARDCORE! It's hardcore like me reading every single "book" inside World of Warcraft just to read the stories, which includes making groups stop in Scarlet Stratholme going, "HEY HEY WAIT! I wanna read this book!" or "Hey, can we kill those 2 Crimson Monks that we don't have to so I can read the books?"

I did that until I realized that Blizzard had an entire website dedicated to all the lore. D'oh.
 

Aikouka

Lifer
Nov 27, 2001
30,383
912
126
Originally posted by: skace
Originally posted by: Aikouka
That, my friend, is HARDCORE! It's hardcore like me reading every single "book" inside World of Warcraft just to read the stories, which includes making groups stop in Scarlet Stratholme going, "HEY HEY WAIT! I wanna read this book!" or "Hey, can we kill those 2 Crimson Monks that we don't have to so I can read the books?"

I did that until I realized that Blizzard had an entire website dedicated to all the lore. D'oh.

Well, this was over a year and a half ago if you're talking about their new (and not very good) encyclopedia :p Been level 60 on my rogue since the end of January 2005. Now, I usually just go to places like WoWWiki and read the information there... both sources from the comfort of my chair :).
 

igowerf

Diamond Member
Jun 27, 2000
7,697
1
76
It seems that the author expected the Wiimote to act like a light gun instead of a mouse. I guess as long as you keep that in mind, you won't be so disoriented when the cursor doesn't point where you're physically pointing.
 

VIAN

Diamond Member
Aug 22, 2003
6,575
1
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Originally posted by: skace
Originally posted by: VIAN
The point of the thread was to give people another look at the Wii. The overhyped, I wanna touch one... Wii. From what I gather, the Wii controller isn't the best working controller around and it's not even that much fun, after the novelty wears off.

From what you gather from .... Slate? You had to dig deep to find your negative opinion. And then you use that one negative opinion to fuel your whole campaign.
People in this thread have said they've experienced the same issues with the controller, Entertainment Weekly has also said so, and I think I might have read it somewhere else. Slate was just the first one to bring it to my attention.

And whether it is or isn't a horrible review, they are still issues. And Nintendo wanted to make the Wii as fool-proof as possible. If this "hardcore gamer" can't figure it out, how is a mom going to figure it out.
 

IEC

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Jun 10, 2004
14,596
6,070
136
Originally posted by: VIAN
Originally posted by: BoberFett
Also from Slate: The Wii is better than either the Xbox360 or the PS3

Not a very strong arguement:

"Twilight Princess is fun, and worth picking up if you have a Wii, but it's not the gaming revolution augured by Wii Sports. While the controls in Zelda feel novel, my instant take is that the 360 and PS3 will probably be better consoles for epic single-player games. But for short bursts of gaming activity or for playing with a group, the Wii will probably be your best bet. I plan to pack up my Wii and play it with my extended family during the Thanksgiving holiday. I'm confident even the gaming-phobes will love it."

That's exactly what one of my friends was thinking, that the Wii is better for playing with a group and/or casual gaming, but the PS3 and XBOX360 are better for "epic" gaming.
 

Kromis

Diamond Member
Mar 2, 2006
5,214
1
81
Originally posted by: VIAN
Originally posted by: Kromis
So uhh...

Who's side are you on, VIAN?
In relation to what?

Originally posted by: skace
As far as I can tell VIAN hates Wii, PS3, DS, PSP. He also hated Final Fantasy 4 and compared Valve to EA.

I'm honestly not sure the point of this thread, are we supposed to be arguing the validity of the Wii's control system based on 1 article from the Slate?
The point of the thread was to give people another look at the Wii. The overhyped, I wanna touch one... Wii. From what I gather, the Wii controller isn't the best working controller around and it's not even that much fun, after the novelty wears off.

Yes. Hate, hate, hate spreads everywhere... from my black heart. J/k. I like some things, but more often than not, there are more things to dislike. Check here for most of the console games that I've liked. It's a big list. And those aren't even including PC games, where there are 15+ of.

In relation to this "console" war. You don't seem to like the Wii and I don't believe you have said anything about the PS3 or 360 yet. I know its just your opinion but I'd just like to know. I'm not gonna bash anybody or whatever, just want to satisfy my curiosity.
 

everman

Lifer
Nov 5, 2002
11,288
1
0
the Wii swings wildly between deal-breaking frustration and hollow victories. Ultimately, it never achieves the level of difficulty that every console should aspire to: a good, fair challenge.

And they almost mention poor control in metroid prime 3 corruption.

First off they played a beta version of metroid, it won't be released for a while still. Perhaps they should have tried Zelda, which is actually finished.

I've calibrated my controller so it's very responsive, I can pick off multiple targets with the bow in zelda pretty easily without using the lock on.

As for difficulty, again I say play Zelda. It's plenty challenging to have fun, it's not super difficult as far as enemy challenges go but that's a game design decision.
 

VIAN

Diamond Member
Aug 22, 2003
6,575
1
0
Originally posted by: Kromis
In relation to this "console" war. You don't seem to like the Wii and I don't believe you have said anything about the PS3 or 360 yet. I know its just your opinion but I'd just like to know. I'm not gonna bash anybody or whatever, just want to satisfy my curiosity.
Disclaimer: This is my view on the gaming experiences of current generation consoles.

Wii
I don?t like the direction that Nintendo is headed. I?m not a casual gamer and those are who Nintendo is trying to attract. How will I, as a moderate gamer, be taken care of? Will there be a good variety of games? And will they be too easy?

My favorite games on recent Nintendo consoles have been Mario games, Zelda and other 1st and 2nd party games. My favorite game on the N64 was Mario64, and while I waited desperately for a sequel. You and I know that it didn't come. One of my favorite games on the Gamecube was Mario Sunshine, but I knew there wasn't going to be a sequel. Lately, there have been less 1st and 2nd party games, with more focus on Zelda. And Zelda doesn?t normally have a lot of innovation, except in Wind Waker?s case, which offered amazing graphics and a new, fun to explore world. The lack of innovation holds true with Twilight Princess, which looks like a tweaked Ocarina of Time. It may be fun, but nothing compared to Wind Waker. Wind Waker was a true classic.

Am I going to buy a new system for one or two games? No. The variety in games just doesn?t seem to be there. Ever since the N64, Nintendo doesn?t seem to have the game variety that other consoles have. And this will become truer if Nintendo really pushes the Wiimote because it?ll be hard to make games, the way developers do today, that take advantage of the Wiimote. Just as it?s happening with the DS. And any games made for the Wii probably won?t be ported too easily or will lose their appeal without the Wiimote. Sure you can use a regular gamepad if the Wiimote isn?t your thing, but then what is the point of spending $250 on the Wii.

$250 for a $99 console, 512MB of flash memory and the $60 Wiimote. That sounds like a rip off to me. If you already own a Gamecube and a memory card, then you?ll be paying $250 dollars for a $60 Wiimote and aesthetics. And some people find that the Wiimote doesn?t work properly sometimes and isn?t the best controller to use in all situations. And I just hate it when things don?t work properly.

The gamepad, example: 360 controller, is the best interface to interact with games because it?s more general. This means it will serve the player well in a greater variety of games. I believe the Wiimote, like the stylus in the DS, is a BS gimmick. The DS sounded very interesting in the beginning and had people flocking to the scene, but then I found out how uncomfortable the stylus was to play with. The gamepad has worked for decades; it has outlived the joystick and it will outlive the Wiimote.

PS3
The PS3 is Sony?s endeavor to market themselves 3 times: Cell, Blu-Ray, and Playstation. Because of their greed, we are forced to pay 600 bucks for a Hi-def console that doesn't even come with Hi-def cables. Sure, it is an impressive piece of hardware for an amazing price, but the price is too high for a gaming console, and the mainstream won't go for it.

It is nuts for Sony to push a price so high, but then again, they haven?t done anything right for a while. The success of the PSX was luck. They just happened to release the PSX at the right time, which made them look better compared to the other two idiots, who released with only a small amount of games to play. The PSX was so popular that the PS2, as mediocre as the technology was (4MB of VRAM?), sold out fast. Sony probably expects it to happen the same way with the PS3, but I think they shot themselves in the foot with Blu-Ray, which delayed the PS3 for far too long.

There are many things that could prevent the PS3?s success, including: high price, no good online support, 360 user base, and high price, and even the Wii?s gimmick. I predict that this generation will be a long and painful struggle for Sony. Why pay 500 bucks when you could get a similar or better gaming experience with the 360 for only $300. I say a better experience because of the near free 2xAA and the 360 controller. I loved the Dreamcast controller and the evolution from that to this 360 controller has only improved it. The analog sticks on the new SixAxis, as well as the trigger buttons pale in comfort and usability compared with the 360 controller. And again, there is also the possibility of getting better graphics on the 360 due to the 10MB of on die memory in the 360 GPU.

If the 360 has a bigger user base than the PS3, where do you think developers are going to go? Think about that. And at such a high price, there is no way the PS3 user base will grow quick enough to compete with the 360. Then think about how difficult developers find the PS3 to program in comparison to the 360. Two big issues developers have against the PS3 that will surely result in the 360 taking the trophy this time around.

If there is one thing that can save Sony, it'll be the mainstream?s reluctance to upgrade from the PS2. But at least, for Sony?s sake, they?ll buy games which will offset some of the cost of the PS3. The PS3 may be such a large leap in price for them that they may just settle for the 360. One thing fanbois have to learn is that you're only hurting yourself with brand loyalty.

360
The 360 is a great balance of graphics and features at a great price of $300.

vs. Wii: Just think, for only 50 bucks over the Wii, next generation graphics could be at your fingers. Graphics may not be everything, but don't underestimate the power of multi-core processors, which will be a revolutionary step towards the way games are played. If you see videos of Crysis you?ll see what kind of gameplay improvements these multi-core powered graphics can provide.

vs. PS3: The 360 is next generation gaming at a whole $200 cheaper. It has an established online system with more people to play with. It?ll have more games due to its probable success over the PS3. And don?t forget the great 360 controller.
 

BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
37,562
9
81
A 360 for only $300? Sure, if you think not having an Xbox with no games, no online features, and no way to save your game is fun, go for it.
 

Chaotic42

Lifer
Jun 15, 2001
34,546
1,709
126
Unless you've played it, you can't judge it at all. It's a very different feeling, and I like the system. It sucks for FPS games, but then again all consoles do.
 

Fingolfin269

Lifer
Feb 28, 2003
17,948
33
91
It seems to me like he didn't like his experience with the games. It's the games fault if you only have to flick your wrist imho.
 

Fingolfin269

Lifer
Feb 28, 2003
17,948
33
91
Originally posted by: BoberFett
A 360 for only $300? Sure, if you think not having an Xbox with no games, no online features, and no way to save your game is fun, go for it.

I know it's not 'only $300' but there are deals out there that put the 360 premium in the $300 range. Might need to add $20-$30 to that price.
 

videogames101

Diamond Member
Aug 24, 2005
6,783
27
91
This idiots and idiot. It took me awhile to get used to Red Steel, but after an hour of hitting everything but my target i got the hang of aiming. This guys just pissed because he is a loser and can't aim a toy gun.... and won't spend time practicing.
 

sourceninja

Diamond Member
Mar 8, 2005
8,805
65
91
After I finally got my sensor positioned properly, I actually like red steel now. I love zelda, i'm on the 3rd shadow now. I think the system is a great buy. I dont care if there are a million games for it. IF there are 6 or 7 great games, then i'm happy. That's what made me happy with my gamecube, it's what will make me happy with this. I'll probably buy a 360 in a year or so.
 

VIAN

Diamond Member
Aug 22, 2003
6,575
1
0
Originally posted by: videogames101
This idiots and idiot. It took me awhile to get used to Red Steel, but after an hour of hitting everything but my target i got the hang of aiming. This guys just pissed because he is a loser and can't aim a toy gun.... and won't spend time practicing.
A controller shouldn't have a learning curve. Anyway, it might not have been the controller, Red Steel didn't get a good score.

I haven't played any current gen system other than the 360. I already got burned by the DS, what makes you think I'm gonna take a chance on the Wii. Paying $250 for a Gamecube with a weird controller.

Besides, I don't need to play it. Check out this review of COD3 and the limitations of the controller. http://www.gamespot.com/wii/action/call...w.html?sid=6162053&tag=reviews;title;1

Along with the control scheme of Red Steel. It seems interesting, but not very intuitive. And gamespot said that it doesn't add to the experience, it's just a different way of controlling. So the Wiimote is pointless.

 

BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
37,562
9
81
I haven't played a Wii, so I can't comment on the controller. I can comment however about the silliness of saying that traditional controllers don't have a learning curve. They have a learning curve, and it's two decades long.

Pong - one knob
2600 - one knob/stick, one button
NES - one pad, 2 buttons (we'll forget about start and select)
Genesis - one pad, 3 buttons
SNES - one pad, 4 face buttons, two shoulder buttons
Nintendo 64 - one pad, one analog stick, 3 buttons, 2 shoulder buttons, trigger button

Modern consoles have two analog sticks, a digital pad, four face buttons, and four shoulder buttons at a minimum. For you who began with the Atari and has slowly been building your skill it may not seem like it. But have you ever handed a modern controller to somebody who is not a gamer and had them play a game? It's awkward at best. It may take several hours just to figure out basic controls. Saying that controllers shouldn't have learning curves is either naive or dishonest when used to compare the Wii to other consoles.
 
Jun 14, 2003
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Nintendo wants you to believe that the Wii will tear kids off the couch and get them swinging virtual tennis rackets. There's also the suggestion that its intuitive game play could eliminate the steep learning curve that tends to repel both "casual gamers" and people who've never held a joystick before. When Time ran the first hands-on preview of the Wii, they included a photo of an ecstatic grandpa standing on his couch, controllers in hand.

this is what i have said all along

this is wat nintendo and all those buying into the hype want you to believe....and sure enough initially its probably gonna be like that, its new and people wanna do it. what could be more fun that stabbing your best buddy in the face with a wii-mote? lol

but gamers being the typically lazy bunch they are, and that typical human trait of trying to do everything with as little effort as is possible the wi-mote and its concept will be consigned to doing pretty much what all the other controllers do.....

there'll be no standing infront of the TV dancing around, instead it'll be a couple of fat kids sat on the couch mashing buttons and getting RSI from the occasional wrist flick while theyre chuffin down gallons of mt dew.

technically its not nintendos fault, its just they have higher expectations of what people will be willing to do once the hype machine has ran out of gas.

my brother is getting a wii, and he maintains he'll be doing the standy up thing infront of the tv to play the games. i have a bet with him that come march 2007, while he's not even remotely a fat heffer, he'll be sprawled out on his bed wii-mote in his right hand giving the occasional flick here and there