NightLine: Bush Administration begins downplaying WMD

[43st]

Originally posted by: Alistar7
"WITH THE 101ST AIRBORNE DIVISION, south of Baghdad, Iraq, April 20 ? A scientist who claims << Dodgey source to have worked in Iraq's chemical weapons program for more than a decade has told an American military team << Dodgey source that Iraq destroyed chemical weapons and biological warfare equipment only days before the war began, members of the team said. << Interesting claim from "claimed" scientist

They said the scientist led Americans to a supply of material that proved to be the building blocks of illegal weapons, which he claimed to have buried as evidence of Iraq's illicit weapons programs. << Interesting claim from "claimed" scientist

The scientist also told American weapons experts that Iraq had secretly sent unconventional weapons and technology to Syria, starting in the mid-1990's, and that more recently Iraq was cooperating with Al Qaeda, the military officials said." << Interesting claim from "claimed" scientist

His knowledge was good enough to find these building blocks BURIED, willing to bet the rest of his information will pan out as well. His story is no different than dozens of other independent interviews with former scientists from Iraq. << Interesting info. from US goverenment

You seem to forget or conviently ignore the fact Saddam submitted a report to the UN outlining his WMD programs and stockpiles, alot of those were NEVER accounted for, are you suggesting they just VANISHED without a TRACE? << Don't know, but I certainly don't trust a "claimed" scientist that the military quotes


Iraqis: We Were Told to Destroy Bacteria

BAGHDAD, Iraq - Six Iraqi scientists working at different Baghdad research institutions were ordered to destroy some bacteria and equipment and hide more in their homes before visits from U.N. weapons inspectors in the months leading up to the war, the scientists told The Associated Press. << So is it buried or in their homes? Should be easy to verify... by the "Pentagon"

I think the facts at this point is that there are no facts. What I'm interested in is why the administration doesn't want UN inspectors to go back to Iraq?!?! Wouldn't the inspectors find the proof the administration needs? Why can't the military just say "hey UN... look in that building, 'nuff said."

Something's not right when the military lobbies to not have independant sources verify the site conditions. Not to mention the none of Powell's evidence has been found.

 

[tk149]

Originally posted by: Thera

Originally posted by: Alistar7
Some more evidence for the antiwar crowd to ignore....


Building blocks of illegal weapons found in Iraq

Sorry bud... "Is Said to Assert" is about as non-news as it gets. Think about those words for a moment.

As for "building blocks" I have some zinc oxide and hydrogen peroxide in my bathroom, plenty of "building blocks" for a thermal nuclear device, clearly. No doubt if you break down all the molecules in Iraq you'll find some building blocks also.

From the first linked article:
They said the scientist led Americans to a supply of material that proved to be the building blocks of illegal weapons, which he claimed to have buried as evidence of Iraq's illicit weapons programs

If the "building blocks" were as harmless as you assert, then why bother burying them?

 

[phillyTIM]

Originally posted by: Alistar7
you hate bush,. woo woo

Actually I do not hate Bush, that would certainly be a waste of my energy. Actually I kinda found Bush pretty darn charming up until he went to the United Nations and forced his aggression on the world. Saying S#IT like if no one else is gonna disarm Iraq then WE (the US) will alone. That's talking like a terrorist and spewing out propoganda of evidence that was found to be "created" and untrue.

What I say is based upon my research and perception and gut-instincts of what has happened, and I comment appropriately to the best of my knowledge. Simple as that.

I can't help that the cold hard facts and actions of the past year have added up to the SHAM of the century.

 

[CaptnKirk]

Looks to me like they got rid of everything that they could get their hands on, including stuff that they didn't need to dump,
just because they really didn't want 'Anything Suspicious' to be found. In other words - they "Over-disarmed" because they
didn't want anything that was found to be a provoking material to be used as justification by a regime (Bush) they didn't trust.

If you take the time to read all the related posts, and pay attention to the contents of the actual facts in the news stories -
everything points that they really had disarmed - and in their world, what can't be physical;y destroyed, burned, etc., the next
method of disposal is burial. All of the Scientists have said they were destroyed, and then they led them to disposal sites.

 

[HappyGamer2]

how many times have we heard they found WMD, positive tests and then it turns out to be nothing or the story vaporizes

 

[tk149]

Originally posted by: yowolabi

Originally posted by: Alistar7
Some more evidence for the antiwar crowd to ignore....


Building blocks of illegal weapons found in Iraq

Every other possible discovery is reported immediately. Why secrecy instead of screaming that a smoking gun was found?

Maybe because the media has been jumping on every little supposed discovery of proof of WMD, and blowing it all out of proportion?
Maybe because: Under the terms of her accreditation to report on the activities of MET Alpha, this reporter was not permitted to interview the scientist or visit his home. Nor was she permitted to write about the discovery of the scientist for three days, and the copy was then submitted for a check by military officials.

Those officials asked that details of what chemicals were uncovered be deleted. They said they feared that such information could jeopardize the scientist's safety by identifying the part of the weapons program where he worked.

 

[Alistar7]

The UN inspectors had 12 years, how come they didn't find the new French and German missilles at Baghdad international airport? How did they miss the terrorist training camp where traces of Ricin were found along with other WMD recipes and dispersion manuals?
The UN is not exactly a world class institution with some golden track record you know. Maybe you can answer this, nobody else has tried. What happened in Haiti? The US used force to restore a democratically elected leader to power and turned things over to the UN. What is happening there today? How has the UN done? If you feel like searching try google and use these terms UN lawsuit haiti.

 

[yowolabi]

Originally posted by: Alistar7
No they have not disclosed the material yet, but it was found and tested and it was positive, apparently it is a building block precursor for WMD.

Let's just assume he wasn't a scientist with intimate knowledge, he just led our forces out into the desert and said dig here, what a lucky guess, guy should have been a UN inspector

read up for a new article, al-queeda arrested in Iraq with 5 Baath party members...

and what about the other article that outlines the ways Saddam hid things historically from UN inspectors???

Tested positive for what? Is it a building block for something else? How accurate is the test? One of those field tests that are later disproved or was it tested at a laboratory? There is simply not enough information given to assert that anything is true.

Don't know what was buried, so I have no idea if it's an achievement to know where it was. They seem to have buried a lot of stuff. We don't even know if possesing this precursor was illegal or not and if there was any reason to hide it. Once again, not enough info to assert anything.

I read the article. It's good to know that they're now free to flail themselves and slash their heads with swords which Saddam outlawed. Gotta love freedom for religous traditions. I disagree with your traditions, but I will defend to the death your right to mutilate yourself. I would like to hear what the Al Qaida member says about when he got to Iraq, and if there was any previous relationship. I'm not suprised that they're together now for an attack, I expected it. Once we said we were going to attack Iraq, soon after attacking Al Qaida, they had a common enemy. Al Qaeda isn't friendly with Syria now, but if us attacking Syria starts looking inevitable, I would expcet Al-Qaida to show up there also.

 

[yowolabi]

Originally posted by: tk149

Originally posted by: yowolabi

Originally posted by: Alistar7
Some more evidence for the antiwar crowd to ignore....


Building blocks of illegal weapons found in Iraq

Every other possible discovery is reported immediately. Why secrecy instead of screaming that a smoking gun was found?

Maybe because the media has been jumping on every little supposed discovery of proof of WMD, and blowing it all out of proportion?
Maybe because: Under the terms of her accreditation to report on the activities of MET Alpha, this reporter was not permitted to interview the scientist or visit his home. Nor was she permitted to write about the discovery of the scientist for three days, and the copy was then submitted for a check by military officials.

Those officials asked that details of what chemicals were uncovered be deleted. They said they feared that such information could jeopardize the scientist's safety by identifying the part of the weapons program where he worked.

We took over Iraq in weeks, but we have no means of protecting one scientist and his family? We're protecting other people, I don't think it's too much trouble to additionally protect the one guy who supposedly is a key to proving our justification for war is true.

Edit: The media talking about every possible discovery hasn't hurt the US so far. It actually buys us more time, because people have to hold back on criticism while the discovery is being investigated. It just occured to me that the only reason why this story is our best evidence is that it's the only one that hasn't been disproven yet. That's actually pretty smart.

 

[CaptnKirk]

Good God ! Can't you get it through your thick head that the missles were NOT banned weapons ! They were allowed, but there was a big B/S stink raised because WITHOUT THE GUIDANCE SYSTEM INSTALLED the missing weight would let them go a few miles further, but without directional control. Install the Guidence system and they're back in compliance. They went ahead and started destroying those too - up until the bombing started. The SCUD MISSLE series of rocket was banned, but none of those were either
fired or even found. Unfortunately due to FOX type sensationalism - every missle that was fired was falsely called a "SCUD"

We already went over the RICIN in detail - it was found OUTSIDE the realm of Iraqi control - in an area that was semi-controlled by the U.S. in the 'Northern No-Fly Zone' , so the Iraqi army couldn't even go up there - yes it appears to have been an Al-Queda style terrorist camp, run by our 'Friendly Kurdish Allies' with the help of Iran (Note: I said Al-Queda STYLE, because we don't really know.
The RICIN traces found on some boots was consistant with what whould be found by walking through an area where Castor Bean Trees were growing. Castor Bean plants are the ONLY source of RICIN, because that's where it comes from - read the name of the plant 'Ricinus Commonis' which probably means "Common Death Plant", or you can change that to Weapon of Mass Destruction - if you get sensationally creative. It grows wild over there.
If you walk through an area where it grows, you get it on your shoes/boots - whatever.

 

[yowolabi]

Originally posted by: Alistar7
The UN inspectors had 12 years, how come they didn't find the new French and German missilles at Baghdad international airport? How did they miss the terrorist training camp where traces of Ricin were found along with other WMD recipes and dispersion manuals?
The UN is not exactly a world class institution with some golden track record you know. Maybe you can answer this, nobody else has tried. What happened in Haiti? The US used force to restore a democratically elected leader to power and turned things over to the UN. What is happening there today? How has the UN done? If you feel like searching try google and use these terms UN lawsuit haiti.

What do you mean miss? The U.S. has no Saddam to deal with, and we haven't found a smoking gun yet either. The training camps were in a part of Iraq Saddam didn't even control. The U.S. has a horrible record in putting in leaders also, especially in the Middle East. Karzai isn't doing too good right now in Afghanistan.

We have a few problems now remaining. Being able to find WMDs, and people thinking we planted what we find. If the UN finds them, that concern will be gone. And their inspectors will help us find anything faster. As far as the skill of the UN inspectors, surely you've heard that in order to build our team, we've recruited between 30 and 40 past and present UN inspectors. So, we trust and want their ability, but we don't want the shield and credibility that the UN gives us? That makes no sense.

The other criticism against us is that we're trying to occupy Iraq. Again having the UN involved would alleviate those fears. Plenty of good reasons to have the UN involved.

Edit: Plus we're screwing Blair, our only non-paper ally in this thing. His support helped make our actions possible. He wants the UN involved, and we have nothing to gain by excluding the UN.

 

[43st]

Originally posted by: Alistar7
The UN inspectors had 12 years, how come they didn't find the new French and German missilles at Baghdad international airport? How did they miss the terrorist training camp where traces of Ricin were found along with other WMD recipes and dispersion manuals?
The UN is not exactly a world class institution with some golden track record you know. Maybe you can answer this, nobody else has tried. What happened in Haiti? The US used force to restore a democratically elected leader to power and turned things over to the UN. What is happening there today? How has the UN done? If you feel like searching try google and use these terms UN lawsuit haiti.

Yeah good point... Interesting that the UN inspectors never found what the US wanted them to find. If you're not with us you're against us.

The simple fact is that the UN doesn't provide any proof that helps the US case. The administration thus paints them with the worthless brush as to make there fuzzy math look better. The first step in a conflict is to distance yourself from the sources that are against you. Since the UN doesn't legitimize the Bush foreign policy they're discounted as worthless. No big deal, just don't expect "facts" to come spewing from the Pentagon.

 

[Moonbeam]

Everybody knows that WMD were never the real issue. We wanted to free the people of Iraq so they could form a Democratic government and vote to allow the Shite to kill the Sunni.

 

[Alistar7]

oh he was just walking down the road minding his own business when 5 Baath party members walked up and said, golly gee, we want to be your friend...

The tests that were used were conclusive and redudntant SUPPOSEDLY, i had another article on this and am trying to find it again. Still no word on the substances themselves.
ALL the WMD not acounted for may wind up being attributed to things like this, we may find more scientists who claimed they were destroyed days before the war than we will find WMD, which would be fine by me. I would rather have them destroyed than given away, but apparently that has already happened with Syria.

You are right there is very little out of that we can verify OTHER than he claims to have intimate knowledge and was able to lead us to physical evidence to support his claims. Just based off that one fact you have to give him the benefit of the doubt on the likelyhood the rest is legit as well. There are STILL people in Iraq who are afraid to speak.
Those arrested were planning on blowing up a mosque, reprisals from Saddam's men and supporters are still very real and have an effect on some of the people. I agree with you about the right to practice religion, what a shame to waste that freedom on self mutilation.

 

[Alistar7]

Originally posted by: CaptnKirk
Good God ! Can't you get it through your thick head that the missles were NOT banned weapons ! They were allowed, but there was a big B/S stink raised because WITHOUT THE GUIDANCE SYSTEM INSTALLED the missing weight would let them go a few miles further, but without directional control. Install the Guidence system and they're back in compliance. They went ahead and started destroying those too - up until the bombing started. The SCUD MISSLE series of rocket was banned, but none of those were either
fired or even found. Unfortunately due to FOX type sensationalism - every missle that was fired was falsely called a "SCUD"

We already went over the RICIN in detail - it was found OUTSIDE the realm of Iraqi control - in an area that was semi-controlled by the U.S. in the 'Northern No-Fly Zone' , so the Iraqi army couldn't even go up there - yes it appears to have been an Al-Queda style terrorist camp, run by our 'Friendly Kurdish Allies' with the help of Iran (Note: I said Al-Queda STYLE, because we don't really know.
The RICIN traces found on some boots was consistant with what whould be found by walking through an area where Castor Bean Trees were growing. Castor Bean plants are the ONLY source of RICIN, because that's where it comes from - read the name of the plant 'Ricinus Commonis' which probably means "Common Death Plant", or you can change that to Weapon of Mass Destruction - if you get sensationally creative. It grows wild over there.
If you walk through an area where it grows, you get it on your shoes/boots - whatever.

they had new modern banned weapons, including missilles, night vision, gps jamming equipment, russina anti-tank missilles, etc. Newsweek has an article on this, detailing the 2002 French and German missille delivery systems found at Baghdad international airport among other things that are BANNED.

The kurds in that area were not our allies, they were in conflict before the war started with the kurds we supported. Saddam not appearing to have any control does not change the fact they were hiding there, he could have allowed their removal. The presence of Al-Queeda is known, by their bodies and the live admissions of those captured. Get that through your head already.

Ricin is the 3rd deadliest substance on earth, up to 4x the strength of a cobra's venom, not to sensationalize.

 

[tk149]

Originally posted by: yowolabi

Originally posted by: tk149

Originally posted by: yowolabi

Originally posted by: Alistar7
Some more evidence for the antiwar crowd to ignore....


Building blocks of illegal weapons found in Iraq

Every other possible discovery is reported immediately. Why secrecy instead of screaming that a smoking gun was found?

Maybe because the media has been jumping on every little supposed discovery of proof of WMD, and blowing it all out of proportion?
Maybe because: Under the terms of her accreditation to report on the activities of MET Alpha, this reporter was not permitted to interview the scientist or visit his home. Nor was she permitted to write about the discovery of the scientist for three days, and the copy was then submitted for a check by military officials.

Those officials asked that details of what chemicals were uncovered be deleted. They said they feared that such information could jeopardize the scientist's safety by identifying the part of the weapons program where he worked.

We took over Iraq in weeks, but we have no means of protecting one scientist and his family? We're protecting other people, I don't think it's too much trouble to additionally protect the one guy who supposedly is a key to proving our justification for war is true.

Edit: The media talking about every possible discovery hasn't hurt the US so far. It actually buys us more time, because people have to hold back on criticism while the discovery is being investigated. It just occured to me that the only reason why this story is our best evidence is that it's the only one that hasn't been disproven yet. That's actually pretty smart.

Maybe the scientist has asked that his identity be kept secret. Put yourself in his shoes. Thirty years of Saddam torturing and killing family members (including cousins of Iraqi "traitors"). Saddam may yet be alive. Firefights are still going on in parts of Iraq, which indicates that there are still Saddam supporters out there. The Americans may or may not leave the country soon, and consequently, may or may not be able to protect you and your extended family. If I were that scientist, I'd be really careful about my identity too.

Re: the media. I refer you to the story of "The boy who cried 'WOLF!'" Perhaps the military wants to keep this specific incident of WMD proof from the media because the media has a tendency to sensationalize and distort such stories. If this story does indeed turn about to be true, I would think that the U.S. would want all the pieces in place and everything well documented before releasing it to the public.

I am not saying that I believe in the truth of this news article. I'm just saying that it does not necessarily ring false.

 

[Moonbeam]

I know that with a mass spectrometer they will be able to identify all the elements in Iraqi soil needed to make WMD. If somebody sneeks across the border into Syria they should be able to find them there.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
I know that with a mass spectrometer they will be able to identify all the elements in Iraqi soil needed to make WMD. If somebody sneeks across the border into Syria they should be able to find them there.

Your insight never ceases to amaze me

CkG

 

[LunarRay]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
I know that with a mass spectrometer they will be able to identify all the elements in Iraqi soil needed to make WMD. If somebody sneeks across the border into Syria they should be able to find them there.

Would that be only if one sneeks across? Is the spectrometer THAT sensitive... I was thinking that Blix could part the Caspian Lake and bring forth a flood... the lake is north of them and should run downhill... to rid the area of all that sand and dust and reveal the buried trove of WMD... and perhaps Saddam himself..

 

[HappyGamer2]

I didn't know that having night vision, and russian anti tank missles were against the law, I learn something new every day.

heck I can buy all the russian night vision equipment I want here in the USA on the open market.

so what could saddam really have legally, not much from the sounds of it, nothing engineered after 1939 it appears except for ak-47's

we must live in a dream world, he could have nothing but his enemies home and abroad can

 

[CaptnKirk]

Hmmmm, looking back on that post it seems that the banned weapon was not a missle, but in fact a MISSILLES.
That sounds like something French to me.
Found Missilles ! They're French pictures of U.S. Air to Ground armament (Missiles)

 

[Alistar7]

As troops from the division moved through a small town in southern Iraq nearly two weeks ago, the Iraqi scientist slipped a note in Arabic to an ambulance driver in a military convoy. The driver passed the note to his unit's chemical officer, but its significance was almost overlooked.

Written under a pseudonym, the note said its author had proof that information was kept from international weapons inspectors. Beside stating that Iraqi officials had destroyed chemical weapons and equipment just before the war, and that they had tested biological agents on animals, the note asked for a meeting with a "qualified" scientist. It also asked for appropriate security provisions and for immunity from prosecution for the Iraqi informant.

Although the unit sent an officer and a translator to contact the Iraqi, the note ? and a report on the meeting ? never made it to the group charged with vetting such tips.

The members of the Alpha mobile exploitation team did not learn of the existence of the informant until six days later, and said they feared he might have fled, having heard nothing from the Americans.



Notice this is not the same person, but both have identical separate accounts, although this person allegedly knew of biological experiments on animals and nothing of the link to Al-Queeda....

 

[43st]

Originally posted by: Alistar7
As troops from the division moved through a small town in southern Iraq nearly two weeks ago, the Iraqi scientist slipped a note in Arabic to an ambulance driver in a military convoy. The driver passed the note to his unit's chemical officer, but its significance was almost overlooked.

Written under a pseudonym, the note said its author had proof that information was kept from international weapons inspectors. Beside stating that Iraqi officials had destroyed chemical weapons and equipment just before the war, and that they had tested biological agents on animals, the note asked for a meeting with a "qualified" scientist. It also asked for appropriate security provisions and for immunity from prosecution for the Iraqi informant.

Although the unit sent an officer and a translator to contact the Iraqi, the note ? and a report on the meeting ? never made it to the group charged with vetting such tips.

The members of the Alpha mobile exploitation team did not learn of the existence of the informant until six days later, and said they feared he might have fled, having heard nothing from the Americans.



Notice this is not the same person, but both have identical separate accounts, although this person allegedly knew of biological experiments on animals and nothing of the link to Al-Queeda....

I'm sorry but all these "A little birdie told me" stories coming from the Pentagon just can't be believed. It almost seems like an exercise in creative writing more than anything else. In so much as how can I insert one legally neutral word into an entire story to make it false.

Watch the source of this information, I'm dead serious on this. If there's just one neutral, non-commital word describing the information source then the whole thing is bad. It's like conditional statements in mathmatics... just one false ruins the entire statement.

I honesyly appriciate your effort to find the smoking gun as I'm very interested in it also. My main problem is that we're entering the 3rd. week after the topple of Baghdad. Everyday marks another buzzword WMD find but none of it is ever confirmed. And now they're trying to shift the focus!??! Something just doesn't make sense.

 

[LivinOnTheEdge]

Originally posted by: Mrburns2007
Since they haven't discovered the smoking gun yet the White House has begun to downplay the WMD angle. They may still find some but it looks as if there was a major shift in the world after 911 and WMD was a bit of smokescreen to make changes in the middle east.

Yeah, those pesky WMD really aren't that important. Just a nice, tidy excuse. This administration simply has no backbone. God forbid that anyone admit that they might be wrong.

 

[CaptnKirk]

The problem with this Administration isthat there is no tolerance of any message other than that which Bush wants to hear.
If the Generals bring up something that dosen't fit their pre-conceived answer they replace them.(At least 2 were moved)
If a senator or Congressman dosen't keep with the party line message - punish them.
If someone wants to tell the truth, or another version of what's happening - quelch their speech.
They are openly discussing how to punish France - Why? Being French is punishment enough !

This group is vindictive, deceitful, and self centered with no allowance for open debate.

You're either With Us....or you're Against Us.
Tax cuts for the Wealthy will help the poor
How Orwellian does it have to get?