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Nice scam, glad *we* caught it

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Rakehellion said:
If you accidentally agree to a contract, then you're screwed, but that's your fault anyway for not reading the TOS.
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It's not realistic to read a TOS. Are you really going to sit there while the shipper is at the door and read a 500 page book? As a shipping and receiving person you see something come in, sign for it, and move on. Laws need to be changed so that TOSes arn't actually legally binding. Companies just make TOS' super long to ensure people don't actually have the time or resources to read them. They can then sneak anything they want in there. It's ridiculous really.
 
CZroe said:
Where did I say that they were legal scammers?! Of course phone slamming is illegal. When they put he burden of proof on you with their fraudulent recording, where does that leave you?





You are ignoring everything I said. I specifically told you that they often deliver them themselves like most other office supply companies (Staples, Office Depot, etc all offer local delivery). It often has nothing to do with a third party courier like "UPS" and when it does it's because they are using a fraudulently presented recording to "slam" you.

Nothing I said contradicted itself so it makes no sense to tell me to "make up my mind."




Unless you were agreeing to something else and they fraudulently took it and presented it out of context. Would that be "your fault?"

Is the sky blue? Answer "yes" and you'll soon regret it.

And the delivery contract types don't care who in the office signs. There's always someone in the office dumb enough to sign without reading. Is it "your fault" when someone else in the office signed? Does that entitle you to keep/use the product without paying? No.

Got any more bad ideas? The only logical course of action which can be recommended is still: DO NOT USE IT. Using it will only give their legal position, falsified or obtained from an idiot's signature, even more weight.
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Recording a call of a customer without the express permission is a felony in California, and any company who does it, would see people who ordered it in jail, and fined out of existence.
 
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CZroe said:
Internet went out before I could reply. Anyway, that's exactly how any slamming scam works:

They get some kind of documentation that they can use to say that you DID request it. Phone slamming was a big problem where people would find huge charges on their phone bill from companies claiming that they agreed to the service. When contacted by authorities, the companies would have audio of that person saying "yes," though it was always taken out of context. For example, they'd ask a question like "Are you a homeowner?" or "Are you doing OK today?" or anything to get you to say "yes." They may or may not ask you if you want their service, but even if they do and you say "no," they have a fraudulently presented recording of you saying "yes." Lern how scams work before bull-headedly assuming you know everything about them and acting rashly.

Let me make this simple: DON'T KEEP/USE THE TONER! That's exactly what they want you to do before they produce their "evidence." You are opening up a whole can of worms.
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Yep. That's why I try my best to avoid ever saying the word "yes" to any question on a cold call.

Not only that, you had to also fight forever with the phone company not just about that incident, but to not allow any company to ever place charges against your phone bill!
 
DCal430 said:
Recording a call of a customer without the express permission is a felony in California, and any company who does it, would see people who ordered it in jail, and fined out of existence.
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These people are scammers. They don't follow the laws. They have layers of anonymity built in to hide themselves. They're not as dumb as you'd think.
 
old scam new tactics. happens in house too with employees ordering x brand from themselves under guise to replace brand name stuff.
 
DCal430 said:
Recording a call of a customer without the express permission is a felony in California, and any company who does it, would see people who ordered it in jail, and fined out of existence.
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Don't tell me that you've never heard "This call may be recorded for...purposes" before. Your "express permission" was not hanging up. They'll just say they had your express permission just like they say they had your permission to send. Also, California != The World. In most places it boils down to expectation of privacy. In some places you can even record without notice if there is a third person known to both parties on the line because that third person could be a witness to what was said just the same as the recording.
 
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Red Squirrel said:
It's not realistic to read a TOS. Are you really going to sit there while the shipper is at the door and read a 500 page book? As a shipping and receiving person you see something come in, sign for it, and move on. Laws need to be changed so that TOSes arn't actually legally binding. Companies just make TOS' super long to ensure people don't actually have the time or resources to read them. They can then sneak anything they want in there. It's ridiculous really.
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I've never signed for a package that required me to read more than a line of text. Is this a common thing now?
 
notification-map-550a.jpg

Rakehellion said:
It's a felony in most of the country.
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While the U.S. federal law only requires one-party consent, many states have accepted different laws. In some states all parties must give their consent or at least be notified that the call is about to be recorded (with necessary opt-out option: if you don’t like them to record the call, you can ask them to stop recording or hang up). A case law decision from the 1950's which went to the Supreme Court and affirmed that the federal law does not supersede state authority/statutes unless the call or the tap crosses state lines – that is why each state went ahead and established their own guideline/statute.

One Party Notification will mean that at least one party on the recorded call must know that the call is being recorded and Two Party Notification will mean that both parties will know about the call being recorded. You may already be familiar with Two Party Notification, when after calling a company you are greeted with a recorded voice that says something similar to: “Thank you for calling ABC Company. This call may be recorded for quality control purposes. An ABC representative will be with you shortly…”
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Interesting way of defining 'most of the country'...

Uno
 
Rakehellion said:
You can't use an illegal recording as evidence in a court of law. You're contradicting yourself.
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Okay.

By the time the situation is resulted in a court decision, you have already spent so much more money than the scammers were trying to get out of you, you lost.

Not to mention the sums are too small for lawyers and courts to bother with.

And good luck trying to trace down a person behind the scam to serve court papers to in the first place.

Oh yeah, the process is ever-so-easy as you so proudly claim! Bravo Mr. Internet Know-It-All!
 
Rakehellion said:
You can't use an illegal recording as evidence in a court of law. You're contradicting yourself.
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No, you are ignoring the fact that they will present it as legal and you have no proof otherwise. They will say that they advise all that "this call may be recorded." In fact, they very well may have stated that the "call may be recorded." Stop grasping at straws.

Rakehellion said:
I've never signed for a package that required me to read more than a line of text. Is this a common thing now?
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All they know is that it's a sheet on a clipboard and the "delivery guy" pointed to the spot they needed them to sign. I don't know why it's so hard to visualize for you. Here: Guy who appears to be a courier but may not be hands them a clipboard and asks them to sign. It looks like every other document they've had to sign for a delivery even though it's not.
 
The Toner! I can't believe you fell for the oldest trick in the book! What a goof! What's with you man? Come on! You know what? Here let me give it back to you.
 
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