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Nice scam, glad *we* caught it

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Carson Dyle said:
A "lot" is relative. It's never been worth the bother, IMO. How exactly am I supposed to tell what I'm being sold when some random calls on the phone? Frankly, I don't even care. I've been in the position of buying toner for several companies and simply bought OEM cartridges and everyone was happy.
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We sell OEM too if that's what makes the customer happy. We don't mind, business is still business. Many of our clients start off with buying OEM from us (we still have lower prices than Staples) and we get them to try the 3rd party from us later on. If they like it they keep ordering it. If they don't no harm done and we go back to OEM. If you can get something that's still very high quality for cheaper and it is still warrantied by us why not? You're saving costs and everyone knows toner is not cheap.

There's no such thing as a super high yield cartridge but every once and a while there might be one third party cartridge that comes in an high yield that the OEM doesn't have. It's not something crazy like an extra 10k+ though.
 
one thing I learned is that don't try to save your company a few dimes, unless you are fixing a gross negligence and a mistake to prevent lossing more money, nothing good will come out of it. The best you might get a 'thank you', worst you might lose your job.
 
AznAnarchy99 said:
There's no such thing as a super high yield cartridge but every once and a while there might be one third party cartridge that comes in an high yield that the OEM doesn't have. It's not something crazy like an extra 10k+ though.
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Now me calling it a "super high yield" is just me being lazy, it wasn't literally called that. I don't remember the actual advertised page count but it was pretty high, but no obnoxious. The only thing I can remember from the boxes was "Manufactured/Made in the USA".
 
CZroe said:
If only it were that simple. Office supplies are ROUTINELY delivered by office supply companies and not 3rd party couriers. Staples, for example, delivers to local offices. Read the document a little closer and you'll see that signing is a much bigger problem than you think.
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Unless you signed a contract, you're in the clear.

Also, keeping a package you didn't pay for is not OK just because you didn't request it. The law is on their side with that one.
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Again, no. It's the same thing. You can't charge for a product that wasn't requested.

This is the oldest scam in the book, which is why it's extremely illegal.
 
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BlitzPuppet said:
Now me calling it a "super high yield" is just me being lazy, it wasn't literally called that. I don't remember the actual advertised page count but it was pretty high, but no obnoxious. The only thing I can remember from the boxes was "Manufactured/Made in the USA".
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The cartridge is not named that, but they will tell you that it is super high yield and uses special toner, etc, etc. You work in I.T. long enough and you will get to know plenty of scams.

Where I work I deal only with OEM cartridges. Mainly due to the headache we had in the past with the re-manufactured ones.
 
richardycc said:
one thing I learned is that don't try to save your company a few dimes, unless you are fixing a gross negligence and a mistake to prevent lossing more money, nothing good will come out of it. The best you might get a 'thank you', worst you might lose your job.
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Very well said. If there was only a single modern day example for the age-old saying "penny wise and pound foolish," it would be the purchasing of 3rd party toner cartridges.
 
richardycc said:
one thing I learned is that don't try to save your company a few dimes, unless you are fixing a gross negligence and a mistake to prevent lossing more money, nothing good will come out of it. The best you might get a 'thank you', worst you might lose your job.
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I've found the best way to handle this is to submit it to your companies idea program, if they have one. Then, someone else can analyze the risk and cost benefits with nothing against you. You might get some form of compensation for it, which you would likely not receive doing it on your own. You aren't pocketing the money they save (legally, at least), so just pass the idea along.


Also, I agree with whoever said "anyone calling is selling something you don't want." Even if this wasn't a scam, it is a bad idea if for no other reason than you don't know their ability to supply you on a consistent basis. What happens if they run out of stock on short notice?
 
CZroe said:
Also, keeping a package you didn't pay for is not OK just because you didn't request it. The law is on their side with that one.
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not really. it really depends on how. but most times if something is sent to you and you keep it you are in the clear.

the law is on your side not the theirs. i remember reading back in (i want to say 80's) company's were sending people stuff and then charging them if they didn't return it in 14 days. it was a huge scam. laws where put in place to protect people.
 
smackababy said:
Also, I agree with whoever said "anyone calling is selling something you don't want." Even if this wasn't a scam, it is a bad idea if for no other reason than you don't know their ability to supply you on a consistent basis. What happens if they run out of stock on short notice?
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Most companies don't keep direct on hand stock. For example, we have multiple vendors and they will ship directly to the client with our logo and company name on it. If one vendor doesn't have any, another will.
 
AznAnarchy99 said:
Most companies don't keep direct on hand stock. For example, we have multiple vendors and they will ship directly to the client with our logo and company name on it. If one vendor doesn't have any, another will.
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How do I know this if you just cold called me though? I'd have to research how your company operates and the services you can guarantee beyond "here is some cheap toner", as having to go outside your sourcing due to you being unable to provide it could end up costing more, if not just in man hours. And, rather than do all of that research myself, passing it to someone who does that for my company is a much better solution.
 
smackababy said:
How do I know this if you just cold called me though? I'd have to research how your company operates and the services you can guarantee beyond "here is some cheap toner", as having to go outside your sourcing due to you being unable to provide it could end up costing more, if not just in man hours. And, rather than do all of that research myself, passing it to someone who does that for my company is a much better solution.
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If I was cold calling you my pitch wouldn't be here's some cheap toner. My pitch is more on quality of product and service. It's little things such as we guarantee next day delivery if shipped to the continental US at no extra cost. The money saving is usually final hook to have them at least give us a shot. That's the most we can ask for from a company.

Toner selling has gotten a bad rep from the years of when people were just out for the quick buck.
 
Rakehellion said:
Unless you signed a contract, you're in the clear.
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And just what do you think they slipped into the document you THOUGHT was a delivery acknowledgement?

Rakehellion said:
Again, no. It's the same thing. You can't charge for a product that wasn't requested.

This is the oldest scam in the book, which is why it's extremely illegal.
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There is a big difference between them not charging for it and them not being entitled to either the money or the product. I should know, as I myself have enforced this before. We had to fire numerous people when a warehouse I worked in mistakenly received a pallet of shoes and some employees decided to take them home. Received when not ordered != free to keep/use. You are only adding misinformation to this thread. Stop.
 
Rakehellion said:
Unless you signed a contract, you're in the clear.



Again, no. It's the same thing. You can't charge for a product that wasn't requested.

This is the oldest scam in the book, which is why it's extremely illegal.
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Internet went out before I could reply. Anyway, that's exactly how any slamming scam works:

They get some kind of documentation that they can use to say that you DID request it. Phone slamming was a big problem where people would find huge charges on their phone bill from companies claiming that they agreed to the service. When contacted by authorities, the companies would have audio of that person saying "yes," though it was always taken out of context. For example, they'd ask a question like "Are you a homeowner?" or "Are you doing OK today?" or anything to get you to say "yes." They may or may not ask you if you want their service, but even if they do and you say "no," they have a fraudulently presented recording of you saying "yes." Lern how scams work before bull-headedly assuming you know everything about them and acting rashly.

Let me make this simple: DON'T KEEP/USE THE TONER! That's exactly what they want you to do before they produce their "evidence." You are opening up a whole can of worms.
 
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CZroe said:
When contacted by authorities, the companies would have audio of that person saying "yes," though it was always taken out of context. For example, they'd ask a question like "Are you a homeowner?" or "Are you doing OK today?" or anything to get you to say "yes." They may or may not ask you if you want their service, but even if they do and you say "no," they have a fraudulently presented recording of you saying "yes."
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Falsifying evidence and wiretapping are both felonies pretty much everywhere in the country.

And if they don't have the fraudulent recordings, you're in the clear.
 
CZroe said:
And just what do you think they slipped into the document you THOUGHT was a delivery acknowledgement?
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UPS doesn't "slip" anything into a delivery confirmation.

We had to fire numerous people when a warehouse I worked in mistakenly received a pallet of shoes and some employees decided to take them home. Received when not ordered != free to keep/use. You are only adding misinformation to this thread. Stop.
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But in this case, the items weren't delivered by mistake, so stop conjuring bullshit to strengthen your argument.

First you say they didn't order it, then you say they ordered it without knowing, then you make up a story about a non-scammer who delivered to the wrong address. Make up your mind.
 
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Rakehellion said:
Falsifying evidence and wiretapping are both felonies pretty much everywhere in the country.



And if they don't have the fraudulent recordings, you're in the clear.
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Where did I say that they were legal scammers?! Of course phone slamming is illegal. When they put he burden of proof on you with their fraudulent recording, where does that leave you?


Rakehellion said:
UPS doesn't "slip" anything into a delivery confirmation.



But in this case, the items weren't delivered by mistake, so stop conjuring bullshit to strengthen your argument.

First you say they didn't order it, then you say they ordered it without knowing, then you make up a story about a non-scammer who delivered to the wrong address. Make up your mind.
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You are ignoring everything I said. I specifically told you that they often deliver them themselves like most other office supply companies (Staples, Office Depot, etc all offer local delivery). It often has nothing to do with a third party courier like "UPS" and when it does it's because they are using a fraudulently presented recording to "slam" you.

Nothing I said contradicted itself so it makes no sense to tell me to "make up my mind."

Rakehellion said:
If you accidentally agree to a contract, then you're screwed, but that's your fault anyway for not reading the TOS.
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Unless you were agreeing to something else and they fraudulently took it and presented it out of context. Would that be "your fault?"

Is the sky blue? Answer "yes" and you'll soon regret it.

And the delivery contract types don't care who in the office signs. There's always someone in the office dumb enough to sign without reading. Is it "your fault" when someone else in the office signed? Does that entitle you to keep/use the product without paying? No.

Got any more bad ideas? The only logical course of action which can be recommended is still: DO NOT USE IT. Using it will only give their legal position, falsified or obtained from an idiot's signature, even more weight.
 
Toner is very popular, but also a lot of shop consumables as well are on these scams. Saw blades, diamond blades, cut off wheels, etc.
 
Wow that's pretty dirty. I can definitely see that working in big companies too where the left hand does not know what the right hand is doing and there's tons of shipments coming in all the time.

Reminds me of those companies that send books in your mail and then send you a bill. Used to happen to my mom all the time because she ordered a book so they'd send some that she did not order and she had to return them or she'd get charged. Stuff like this needs to be illegal.
 
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