NFS4 and Othe NASCAR Haters

[Futuramatic]

trmiv-

Yeah okay, I was thinking more of the Indy/CART/F1 type of cars.. he never ran those... He did do the sprints and midgets though. I thought most NASCAR drivers did though... Anyway...

Yeah, it sucks that way. Nicest guy in the world (in most cases, unless he is crashed by some former Indy car goof named Stewart), and he is jeered because he is good. I know NASCAR fans are loyal, but sometimes I wonder what kind of peopel they really are (me excluded of course )

 

[NFS4]

<< if it isn't cool in Road and Track or Car and Driver, it isn't cool with him. >>


That is just talk of someone who thinks he knows it all and THINKS he knows me I read C&amp;D and R&amp;T strictly for fun and for technical details. That's why I'm always quick to spout of technical specs, engine details, weight, performance of cars. If there's something wrong with that, well that's your problem. Believe what you want. I'd rather be well read than not know what your talking about when someone comes in here and asks about a certain car be it a Honda Accord or Ferrari F360 Modena. I know details by heart from engine size, horsepower, and torque to wheel sizes, and transmission types, to pricing, safety features, weight, and performance options and trims for most of the cars available on the road today and can regularly pull these details from my head on command. I can spot a Buick Century 3 car lengths ahead of me at night by it's tailamps or catch a glimpse of a Jeep Grand Cherokee in the corner of my eye and tell you what year and trim level it is.

And I still don't see his point...NASCAR gets just as much coverage (if not more than F1 and CART) in the major car mags.

But don't knock me b/c I read the mags. I have been reading C&amp;D cover to cover since May of '91 when my dad bought me my first issue, R&amp;T since '92, and MT since August '94. When it comes to specs, you know who to come to

When I walk into a dealership to get a car, no salesman is gonna get one over on me as I already know what to expect and what the car is capable of. When my dad buys a new car, he takes me along for ME to ask the salesman questions about the car and talk about features and options. I was also instrumental in him choosing the Ford F-150 that he now drives as his company truck (he had a choice of vehicles and a budget per the company and I narrowed them down for him based on what he was doing, towing needs, fuel economy, etc.).

Now I don't see the crime in reading the mags. It's fun for me and I like being up to date on what is going on in the auto industry. So if you don't like it, you can...

As for selling my Camry, hell no! I love cheap, reliable transportation

 

[Slap]

I guess I went to bed to early. I missed out on some good posts.

 

[NFS4]

Hmm, this thread died fast

 

[Slap]

It isn't dead.........you just brought it back. NASCAR! WOOHOO!

Slap

 

[NFS4]

Down with NASCAR and little itty bitty midget cars with big wings, long live F1, CART, and Lemans racing!!

 

[Midnight Rambler]

<< Indy, Cart, F1 = glorified go karts. I mean gimme a break, they dont even look like cars. >>

Surely you jest. Otherwise you imply that a &quot;stock&quot; car is what a real race car looks like? Oh my ... there's nowhere to begin with this, it would take days to explain ...


<< One more thing, if F1 drivers are so good, why will they not compete in IROC.......scared? CART and Indy drivers do. Earnhardt has proven the last two years he is the greatest driver by winning that series. After winning this year he made the comment that he wished the F1 drivers would come over and try thier luck. >>

Not quite correct. He challenged CART drivers to compete in IROC, not F1 drivers. CART would, except their race schedule conflicts. Michael Andretti would run rings around those guys, when it comes to ovals he's even better than his dad. Did you happen to see him &amp; Montoya race at Michigan, or his drive at Gateway where he lapped the entire field except for Montoya.


<< The TRUE BOLD difference between NASCAR and F1/Indy/CART is tha NASCAR isn't just about driving the cars... its about the cars themselves. A lot of emphasis is put on setting up the car. Sometimes I think that the crews deserve more credit than the drivers. Sometimes, outside of a good crew, all a driver needs is to be a little bit crazy and take the corner faster than the other guy >>

WHAT? You actually think that there's no setup involved in a CART or F1 car? Their suspension setup alone is a multitude of times more complicated that all the adjustments in total that can be made on a NASCAR. Hell, there's more tweaking involved in just the front shock setup on the Newman Haas CART cars than anything you can do on a whole NASCAR.


<< Out of all those, you see that he was least successful in NASCAR. I will agree that he is with out a doubt one of the greats >>

The only reason Mario had only a few NASCAR starts/wins is that he moved on quickly to bigger and better things.

I couldn't stomach writing anymore ... thankfully there are a few in this thread who correctly pointed out the differences and superiority of F1 and/or CART (hell, even the IRL) over NASCAR. It's not even close.

And for the record, I did watch the Winston 500, and Earnhardt did have an awesome drive there at the end, and I was even cheering for him myself. Yet to imply that it was all Dale that did that is very short-sighted. K. Wallace and J. Nemecheck had as much to do with Dale winning as he did.

I'd love to see ol' Dale try to take Eau Rouge flat out in a McLaren, he'd be cleaning his shorts for days.

Note: Among those in the know, Eau Rouge is rated as THE most difficult corner in all of auto racing. Ask Mario, J. Stewart, N. Lauda, S. Moss, A. Prost, M. Hakkinen, 'Scummaker, JV, or anybody else who has even had the guts to try it (and is still alive).

 

[NFS4]

Thank you Midnight Rambler, your post and GL's many posts have brought quite a few smiles to my face

 

[DABANSHEE]

One only has to look at Zinardi to see how long it takes to master an F1 car, it took him 3/4 of the race season &amp; even then he was only in the middle of the feild, &amp; yet the year before he won just about every CART race

The trouble with NASCAR all the cars are fake, the're just space frames with a bit of cladding to give them a siluette that s'pose to be the same as a road car. If they were genuine stock cars the Ford Taurus NASCAR would have a FWD OHC tranverse-V6, &amp; we al know it doesnt.

 

[-SpYrL-]

I personally like NASCAR... Just not as much as LeMans Series Racing.

-SpYrL-

 

[Ferocious]

First thing, I do NOT like NASCAR at all.

But I definately think NASCAR is the most difficult, both mentally and physically, of all the major racing types.

 

[Futuramatic]

DABANSHEE-

And the F1 cars are based on what kind of car? I am NOT saying F1 isnt fun to watch or even drive (not that I could) but PLEASE stop bashing NASCAR because you are narrow-minded. They are not street cars... neither are F1 cars. F1 cars are not fake? They are not even LOOSELY based on any type of street car. That doesn't make either sport less exhilerating. If you ever listen to NASCAR races or programs, you would know that there IS a difference between the body styles, and that it DOES make a difference.

Rambler-

If you would bother to read the whole thread, you would see that I CONCEDE that the NASCAR cars are no longer &quot;stock&quot; cars. And besides, I never said that NASCARs are the only trues race cars... I said they look more like CARS than F1/CART/Indy cars. At least you can find something on the street that shares the same general body style.

I never said that F1 and CART don't take setup. I know during the race they adjust the wings and such. I also know that of the race coverage I have seen between NASCAR and CART/Indy. NASCAR spends alot of time talking about the cars and what the crews had to do to get it ready for the race. Now I haven't really &quot;watched&quot; a CART/Indy race since the split - at best I was in the room while it was on - but I do not remember them talking much about the cars.

 

[DABANSHEE]

I don't see FIA referring to F1 cars as 'Stock Cars'

 

[Pacfanweb]

To simply say F1 drivers are better than all others because they have to slow down and shift gears is ridiculous. Do you think it takes a god to fly down a straight and slam on brakes, turn right, hit the gas, turn back left, hit the gas, shift, brake, etc.??

Sure it's demanding, but no more so than Nascar, Indy, Cart, World of Outlaws, or any other form of endurance racing. The car is the only difference. I don't say Nascar drivers are better than F1 drivers, vice-versa, or Indy drivers or any other drivers. I do say the top drivers in all the major series could compete anywhere.
You don't really think every F1 driver could come over here and dominate Winston Cup or Cart do you? Well, if you do, you are in a very small minority.
The racing is completely different, and some could cross over, some couldn't, and I mean both ways. Only a closed minded fool would be so arrogant as to suggest that &quot;nobody from Nascar could match up with F1 drivers&quot;. That is completely untrue, and no driver or car owner from either series would agree.

 

[lupin]

<< Do you think it takes a god to fly down a straight and slam on brakes, turn right, hit the gas, turn back left, hit the gas, shift, brake, etc.??
>>



Now that is the dumbest statement I've ever heard in this thread.

Pacfanweb, you have no idea how complicated braking in Formula One is do you??

not to mention, the others:
turn right
hit the gas
turn back left
hit the gas
shift
brake
etc.

LOL

 

[Pacfanweb]

<<Pacfanweb, you have no idea how complicated braking in Formula One is do you?? >>

Sure I do. Just as much as you or more, I imagine. I've never driven an F1 car and neither have you.
Braking is no harder in an F1 car than any other race car. It may be different, but not necessarily harder.

<<
not to mention, the others:
turn right
hit the gas
turn back left
hit the gas
shift
brake
etc.

LOL>>

That was meant to be somewhat humorous, sorry you didn't get it. Still, it's not too far from the truth in any form of road racing.

 

[Futuramatic]

DABANSHEE-

If you knew the history of the sport, or at least considered it, you wouldn't have posted that.

FOR THE LAST TIME!!!

I am NOT bashing F1. However, I will not let people on this board bash a sport I love... Oh God, what is the use? You people obviously don't READ the posts before posting anyway.

If the Elite's do have a separate forum (which is possible), I completely understand why. Over half the peeps in here don't have enuf brains to fill a thimble.

F1 AND NASCAR ARE TWO COMPLETELY DIFFERENT SPORTS. THE CARS ARE DIFFERENT, THE FANS ARE DIFFERENT, THE DRIVERS ARE DIFFERENT, THE RULES ARE DIFFERENT. YOU CANNOT COMPARE THE TWO. NEITHER ONE IS BETTER THAN THE OTHER.

I am sorry if I implied that they could be compared. What I said was in defense of my sport, and was not meant as a degredation(sp) of any other racing circuit. For the love of God let it DIE!!

 

[Slap]

OK........It is time for the thread to die. There is just no convincing diehard F1 fans that NASCAR is also a great racing sport that is just as hard as F1. Sorry to have bothered you elite ones.

Now Die THread!

Slap

 

[DABANSHEE]

I know a bit about the history Futuramtic - I'd love to own a high winged aero kited 426 Hemi Plymouth Road Runner or Dodge Super Bee, even a 340 6 pack (3 2-barrel carbies, in normal use just the middle carbie runs but when you hit the throttle the other 2 carbies opened up) would do the trick.

The fact is the stupidist thing they ever did was when NASCAR stopped being a modified production car series &amp; became virtually a single make series (all handicaped to the point all the cars are virtually the same, whether GM or Ford) of space framed cars bearing no relationship to their namesakes except silhuette.

 

[The Stigenator]

I think I must lend a hand into this thread.

Firstly I am a certified Formula 3 (stepping stone to Formula 1) driver and a Rally Cross Driver. I have driven F3 cars which are pretty nice but it take 2 years of F3 chamionship circuit to before you can step to F1 circuts. The F1 teams are not paid by drivers, they are teams with huge amount of money. THe drivers get in teh millions to drive and the technology in them comes down to teh cars we drive today. Not that NASCAR doesnt have stuff trickle down to consumer level, but most of NASCAR drivers wouldnt make the cut to F1, or even Rally. Each F1 car costs millions in development and the teams are willing to spend it. This confusion of F1 Vs Nascar seems to be predominat with people who are ignorant of the fact that Soccer is more popular that &quot;american football&quot;. I call it american football because the rest of the world call &quot;soccer&quot; as &quot;football&quot;. I am not sure carrying the ball in your hands can be classified as &quot;football&quot;. Same thing can be said for &quot;Cricket&quot; and &quot;Baseball&quot;

Anyway back to Nascar Vs F1. I am sure if any of you Slap want to try driving even an F3 car, you will fail miserably, and so will Dale Ernhart and others in F1.

Let me tell you an incident from my F3 training. I was training with my Rally Partner on the MRF Ingonttu Tracks in India. I let her go ahead and off she went. Once I realised that she was too good for me I took off after her. First lap went by she was ahead of me quite a bit. The first right turn of the straightway was coming up, I decided to catch up with her on that turn by braking late enough to swing my rear around the curve. It worked but just to good.. I lost control of the car and went into the grass. I recovered, but that was a lesson I still remember. Later that year we were in a rally cross circuit and all that info and training came in very handy on a wet muddy track thru the hills.

I dont say that either sport is bad, but you got to watch all of it and decide and not be stubbon and say that &quot;Nascar Rocks&quot;.. when you will be sh*tting in your pants while I drive you thru a wet hill side dirt track at 60+ MPh.

 

[Futuramatic]

DABANSHEE-

Your right... those races were probably alot better, but you know what? Unfortunately, automakers are not allowed to make those kind of cars anymore for street use, so they need to use the best aerodynamic body they have and stuff a big drivetrain in it.

BTW... I'd take a Boss 429... Did you know they did NASCAR? Wicked cars!! And I know what a Six Pack is... Got a setup sitting on top of my 1969 Dodge Dart 340 Swinger's blueprinted 423HP engine... I knwo you weren't being insulting, just thorough

Fords and Chevys are not the same, or you wouldn't hear one or the other screaming when a rule change is instituted. They are mainly combustion chamber and aeor differences, and they are subtle, but they do make a difference. For instance, Fords run better in cold wet weather due to the combustion chamber shape... Chevys are better in dry warm conditions. Liek I said, subtle, but noticeable...

 

[The Stigenator]

Oh by the way I dont like &quot;Jim Scoutten&quot;. &quot;Jeremy Clarkson&quot; or even &quot;Vicky Butler Henderson&quot; would wipe his butt on the asphalt.

I do read Car and driver, got it for the fact it was 12 bucks for the year.. but once I showed my friends &quot;TopGear&quot; BBC Top Gear Websitethey saw the light. Being the BBC their TV show &quot;Top Gear&quot; is commerical Free and has no money piped down to the presenters. Infact one is a Former F1 Driver.

The only thing I miss is that I dont think BBC America airs &quot;Top Gear&quot; can any one confirm that for me?

 

[Futuramatic]

The_good_guy-

I envy you.... that sounds extremely awesome. I would give both testicles and a good portion of my snake to get that opportunity. You're right that most NASCAR drivers would not make it... but I think that there are a few (3-4) could do it. Some of these guys are pretty good... not all, but some. And I agree, Earnhardt wouldn't cut it... he would be too tempted to bump and grind wit hthe other cars... he jsut isn't a clean enuf driver (and between you and me, I don't think he has the skillz..)

 

[Redneck]

Heard today that Dale and Dale Jr. are teaming up with ??? to race a Vette in the 24 hours of Daytona. Might not be driving on an F1 circuit with F1 drivers, but it for sure ain't NASCAR Should be interesting.

I personally enjoy racing in almost any form, whether it be 2 or 4 wheeled, on land, sea or in the air.

DABANSHEE,
NASCAR has evolved, just like any other sport. The change to the current cars was not a overnight thing, and most NASCAR fans know the only thing in common between street cars and &quot;stock cars&quot; is the shape of the body.

lupin,
I don't know if there is more than 1 Touring Sedan class, but I remember reading an article about touring sedans, and while they may be closer to stock than a &quot;stock car&quot; they are still highly modified.

One point that has not been brought up, how do the budgets of a F1 team and NASCAR team compare?