Next on the list of who (what) to tax: robots.

[Lanyap]

I have long held that the robots should not be allowed to be privately owned, that as machines that serve they should serve one and all equally. This would also imply that the funds to develop them should come from taxes on people but also on corporations who profit from them. I believe that robotic labor can free humanity from misery.

What then will humanity do, sit around on their iPhones and post on social media and play games all day?

 

[Ken g6]

Taxing robots specifically seems a little too complicated. They should tax all companies, then give tax breaks for each American employee. That also fixes outsourcing. Any other companies that make a lot of money without a lot of employees aren't contributing to the middle class anyway.

 

[Moonbeam]

What then will humanity do, sit around on their iPhones and post on social media and play games all day?

In my opinion most people will, well, not so much go crazy, as I suspect you think you will, but more likely just manifest the insanity that already grips them. Like a long time caged tiger, if the bars are removed, most will continue to pace in their usual rut, or like a prisoner released from jail, reoffend to return to prison, fearful of lacking skills to live independently.

For those with a rich internal life, however, the possibilities of self expression are endless. They will be able to, as they say, follow their bliss. Just my opinion.

 

[Bitek]

This is a nonsensical policy when you think deeper about how they would even define the impact of automation on job loss.

Exactly what is consideration a "robot" for taxation purposes?

Manufacturing incorporates all sorts of machines, tools and automation that compliment and enhance worker's activity.

If I add a bottle capping tool, computer controlled visual inspection station, or a sorting device to a new manufacturing line, have I added a "robot" that "took" someone's job?

Gets even murkier if you start dealing with software and algorithms that replace checking, communication and simple decision making. Have I replaced a QC inspector or some job function that would have been done by a human back in 1920?

Lol, we had humans physically moving wires on a switchboard to connect phone calls back then. Is Bernie going to tax that?

 

[HomerJS]

Whether I agree with Bernie or not he is worth 10x the likes of

Ron Johnson
Jim Jordan
Lauren Bobert
Steve King
Louie Gomert
MTG

 

[Greenman]

So I have an employee, replace him with a robot, and save $100k a year while tripling production. I'm going to be taxed on the vast profits I make. Do we actually need an added robot tax? Why not just increase the tax on profits and dodge the entire mess?

The thorny question is, what's a robot? Would a CNC machine be a robot? What about a table saw with digital controls? Would it be as simple as defining a robot as any machine that replaces a human?

 

[fskimospy]

So I have an employee, replace him with a robot, and save $100k a year while tripling production. I'm going to be taxed on the vast profits I make. Do we actually need an added robot tax? Why not just increase the tax on profits and dodge the entire mess?

The thorny question is, what's a robot? Would a CNC machine be a robot? What about a table saw with digital controls? Would it be as simple as defining a robot as any machine that replaces a human?

I agree it might be easier to just do a UBI sort of thing and tax profits more generally.

 

[Greenman]

I agree it might be easier to just do a UBI sort of thing and tax profits more generally.

The issue I have with UBI is that it promotes being nonproductive. People need to be doing something or many will turn to booze and drugs to fill the void of doing nothing.

I could sit right here in my comfortable chair surfing the web for all of my waking hours if I chose to, that's a dead end. If I run out of things to build I'll go apply at the local hardware store, or set up a free construction advice booth in the parking lot.

 

[fskimospy]

The issue I have with UBI is that it promotes being nonproductive. People need to be doing something or many will turn to booze and drugs to fill the void of doing nothing.

I could sit right here in my comfortable chair surfing the web for all of my waking hours if I chose to, that's a dead end. If I run out of things to build I'll go apply at the local hardware store, or set up a free construction advice booth in the parking lot.

Then you haven’t answered the problem of automation though.

 

[ch33zw1z]

The issue I have with UBI is that it promotes being nonproductive. People need to be doing something or many will turn to booze and drugs to fill the void of doing nothing.

I could sit right here in my comfortable chair surfing the web for all of my waking hours if I chose to, that's a dead end. If I run out of things to build I'll go apply at the local hardware store, or set up a free construction advice booth in the parking lot.

standard FUD

 

[dawp]

The issue I have with UBI is that it promotes being nonproductive. People need to be doing something or many will turn to booze and drugs to fill the void of doing nothing.

I could sit right here in my comfortable chair surfing the web for all of my waking hours if I chose to, that's a dead end. If I run out of things to build I'll go apply at the local hardware store, or set up a free construction advice booth in the parking lot.

most UBI proposals I've seen don't pay all that much, maybe amounts to less than a minimum wage job, if you can live off that, more power to ya!!

 

[Greenman]

most UBI proposals I've seen don't pay all that much, maybe amounts to less than a minimum wage job, if you can live off that, more power to ya!!

So we lose most of our jobs and pay those that are out of work just enough to starve slowly? I don't like that at all. At that point I'd be ok with banning robots.

 

[dainthomas]

What then will humanity do, sit around on their iPhones and post on social media and play games all day?

In Star Trek, once energy became free and anything could be instantly produced via replicator, people did anything that gave them fulfillment. Which still included becoming doctors, engineers, pilots etc. Except they weren't compelled to under threat of starvation and death.

 

[ch33zw1z]

So we lose most of our jobs and pay those that are out of work just enough to starve slowly? I don't like that at all. At that point I'd be ok with banning robots.

sure, unlikely, pay people enough to live.

personally, if i was paid a UBI that was adequate I would spend 1/3 of my day exercising, 1/3 on house hold stuff, and another 1/3 of community work. Mixing in hobbies as I wanted.

the problem with your stance is that you see the capitalism all around you and think that everyone is out to rob cheat and steal as soon as the option is available, just biding their time and getting drunk or high all day. You’re a product of your environment.

 

[ivwshane]

sure, unlikely, pay people enough to live.

personally, if i was paid a UBI that was adequate I would spend 1/3 of my day exercising, 1/3 on house hold stuff, and another 1/3 of community work. Mixing in hobbies as I wanted.

the problem with your stance is that you see the capitalism all around you and think that everyone is out to rob cheat and steal as soon as the option is available, just biding their time and getting drunk or high all day. You’re a product of your environment.

He’s more than likely projecting.

 

[ch33zw1z]

He’s more than likely projecting.

quite Possible. Again, I’ve done enough drugs to know I do not want to be drunk or high all day. I’ve got shit to do that keeps me happy, and working my life away to barely make it isn’t all that appealing. while jobs are automated and now AI is coming for your White collar jobs, what’s humanity going to do when there’s no weights left to pull? Will heads roll?

I’d love to give to my local community more, and I know others that feel the same

 

[Lanyap]

In Star Trek, once energy became free and anything could be instantly produced via replicator, people did anything that gave them fulfillment. Which still included becoming doctors, engineers, pilots etc. Except they weren't compelled to under threat of starvation and death.

And then they became brains in a jar.

 

[woolfe9998]

The answer to all of those questions is ‘no’. Easy!

Generally speaking the goal of technology is 100% unemployment where everything is automated. Automation technology will accrete wealth to those who control it, so unless we want some sort of dystopian Elysium society that’s going to need to be redistributed through taxation.

In the longrun, we're probably going to need something like UBI to address the problem of workers being replaced by automation. And who would pay for that? If it isn't the companies who are putting people out of work, then it's no one.

 

[cytg111]

You guys cant even agree on single payer how the hell you expect UBI to trickle around? Capitalism is the beast that rules the US, it sits in Congress, the Oval and its nature is very specific.
In my eyes, its gonna consume you, short of a revolution.. couple of revolutions.

 

[ch33zw1z]

You guys cant even agree on single payer how the hell you expect UBI to trickle around? Capitalism is the beast that rules the US, it sits in Congress, the Oval and its nature is very specific.
In my eyes, its gonna consume you, short of a revolution.. couple of revolutions.

it will be messy for sure, as the ruling class has pushed the culture war hard and include any deviation from our trajectory as the evil that is helping the regular folk.

many Americans, especially conservatives, have bought into this idea. While dreaming about the “good ole days”but not really understanding why they were that good

 

[dawp]

it will be messy for sure, as the ruling class has pushed the culture war hard and include any deviation from our trajectory as the evil that is helping the regular folk.

many Americans, especially conservatives, have bought into this idea. While dreaming about the “good ole days”but not really understanding why they were that good

in actuality the good old days really weren't

 

[ch33zw1z]

in actuality the good old days really weren't

yea, but that doesn’t change anything when viewed thru reminiscent rose colored glasses

 

[Indus]

This is a Bernie Sanders and Bill gastes idea. Yeah. Tax robots. The companies who deploy robots would be paying the taxes.

The next question is, whats a fair wage for a robot?

Bernie Sanders says he agrees with Bill Gates that the government should 'tax the robots' replacing workers (msn.com) [Business Insider]

Interesting analogy would be:

You're a software programmer with 10 programmers under you.

You're suddenly replaced by a super computer and you see your field going extinct and job options limited.

Should the government ignore that and leave you to fend for yourself while rewarding the CEO of the company that decided to replace you?


I don't know the perfect solution but I don't think the answer is totally turning a blind eye to CEO's gain at your costs.

 

[blackangst1]

Interesting analogy would be:

You're a software programmer with 10 programmers under you.

You're suddenly replaced by a super computer and you see your field going extinct and job options limited.

Should the government ignore that and leave you to fend for yourself while rewarding the CEO of the company that decided to replace you?


I don't know the perfect solution but I don't think the answer is totally turning a blind eye to CEO's gain at your costs.

Why is companies replacing workers to increase productivity bad?

 

[dawp]

Why is companies replacing workers to increase productivity bad?

if all employees are replaced with automation who's going to buy the products?