Next door neighbor's house broken into - ATOT gun nuts enter here

[LTC8K6]

Bullshit. You don't have to prove self defense in most states. Just them being in your home illegally means you can kill them, no questions asked, no prosecution or civil liability. Now it depends on the state of course, but most states once they cross the threshold, they're fair game. Shooting in the back is just fine, don't have to prove self defense in your own home.

No, not really. You can't make that generalization, imo.

 

[Modelworks]

You are better off to go the alarm system route. Most burglars want an easy job and little attention. If you have children or a wife left alone a lot then I also recommend panic buttons in each room . These are basically just over sized light switches on the wall. You hit it, the alarm goes off whether active at the time or not. Good for the elderly as well.

 

[BrunoPuntzJones]

Really? What distance? What choke?

IC - at 30 yards puts out a pattern of 2 feet. Close quarters is likely a lot closer to a foot.

I would assume most home defense weapons are open choke, and have an even wider pattern.

As for the length comments some have made, buy a home defense weapon and it should be quite short. Pistols likely would put out a bit of recoil, so a lady may not do well. So a foldable stock may be required so the mrs. can shoulder the weapon.

Actually, something like this might be a bit more appropriate for a lady:
http://www.gunsamerica.com/91798247..._RIOT_HOME_DEFENSE_18_1_2_W_FOLDING_STOCK.htm

Problem is you have to be a bit more accurate due to the size of the pellets and the smaller rounds. As someone else mentioned, you'll probably want to avoid semi autos. I love mine, don't get me wrong, but they are more likely to jam than a pump. And the jams are often harder to fix.

Granted, if it was just you using the thing, a pistol gripped home defense 12 gauge pump would be optimal.

And practice and become familiar with the weapon.

Under 6" at 7 yards. Vast majority of shootings happen under 7 yards. Assuming linear, that 1' spread is at 45 feet. Most houses don't even have that much line of sight.

And just to reiterate, anything that's going to stop a person is going to go through walls. Just how it is. Maybe some fancy frangible ammunition won't.

 

[mvbighead]

Those are almost useless as they are nearly uncontrollable. You could use it as a club, I suppose.

Not sure what shotguns you've fired, but it is generally easier to control the recoil on a 8lb weapon vs. a 2lb weapon. And a 2 3/4" 12ga load at 1250fps doesn't generate nearly the amount of recoil as other loads do (3 1/2" super magnum loads).

http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_1...=SPM5009946801

 

[BrunoPuntzJones]

Bullshit. You don't have to prove self defense in most states. Just them being in your home illegally means you can kill them, no questions asked, no prosecution or civil liability. Now it depends on the state of course, but most states once they cross the threshold, they're fair game. Shooting in the back is just fine, don't have to prove self defense in your own home.

I don't know of any state that allows you to kill someone.

 

[spidey07]

I don't know of any state that allows you to kill someone.

Ok fine. Deadly force is authorized once an intruder crosses the threshold to your home illegally or with intent to commit a felony. Depending on state of course, but most states have castle laws.

 

[edro]

edited because I was wrong

 

[mvbighead]

Under 6" at 7 yards. Vast majority of shootings happen under 7 yards. Assuming linear, that 1' spread is at 45 feet. Most houses don't even have that much line of sight.

And just to reiterate, anything that's going to stop a person is going to go through walls. Just how it is. Maybe some fancy frangible ammunition won't.

http://hunting.about.com/od/shotgun/l/aastshotgunfaqa.htm

A cylinder choke at 10 yards puts out a pattern of 20", an Improved cylinder puts out a pattern of 15".

Assuming linear, you're probably looking at a 10-15" pattern at 7 yards. You gotta understand chokes my friend. A home defense weapon is most likely to have a cylinder or wider boar, thus creating a better spread.

As for stopping power, I don't think anyone has really debated that point.

EDIT: A correction to my earlier statement is that the IC puts out the 2 foot pattern at 20 yards. FYI.

 

[edro]

edited because I was wrong

 

[spidey07]

Wrong.
The ONLY time you are legally allowed to take a life is to protect yourself or another person from physical harm or death and the aggressor must have the ability to cause death.
You cannot claim self defense against an unarmed 5yo girl.

I don't agree with it, I am just stating the law.

Whatever. I had classes where the my states attorney general and local sheriff say exactly what you can and cannot do. Once they cross the threshold illegally you can use deadly force, period. You do not have to prove self defense. This came right out of their mouths. Most states are the same.

I know my state's laws. Suggest OP if he wants to defend himself to do the same. There are many classes out there that will teach you legality (sanctioned, if not provided by the state) and proper technique.

 

[Ns1]

Wrong again. You cannot kill someone because they commit a felony in your house.
Maybe in Texas, but not many other places.

uh...


Ind. Code Section 35-41-3-2 (b) A person: (1) is justified in using reasonable force, including deadly force, against another person; and (2) does not have a duty to retreat; if the person reasonably believes that the force is necessary to prevent or terminate the other person's unlawful entry of or attack on the person's dwelling..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castle_doctrine#Adoption_by_States

 

[JDMnAR1]

<snip>
If it's just me, I'm loading one in the chamber audibly. I'm yelling "GTFO or get shot." If they don't leave on my terms, well, some bad stuff is going to happen. Hopefully I am the one to make it out on top.
</snip>

IMO, the time to press your tactical advantage is when you have it - you don't want to level the playing field by revealing your location, your capabilities and your intentions. Say you announce your presence and the intruder leaves - what then? Do you think they are just going to scratch your house off their list of targets now that they know you have at least one firearm that can be easily flipped for cash, or better yet, used in their next crime? Are you going to be home, awake and alert 24/7 to try to scare them off yet again? All you have done is educate them, and possibly delayed their return visit. I certainly don't want to find myself in the position of having to use deadly force on someone, but if I do I don't want to risk my life to give them a fair fight.

 

[Specop 007]

Wrong.
The ONLY time you are legally allowed to take a life is to protect yourself or another person from physical harm or death and the aggressor must have the ability to cause death.
You cannot claim self defense against an unarmed 5yo girl.

I don't agree with it, I am just stating the law.

You should probably brush up on self defense law. A lot.

Obviously a 5 year old girl isnt a threat. But you can use deadly force to protect property in some states. In other words, if your standing in my living room with my TV in your arms I can send you on the 2'o clock Express straight to Hell.

And I would.

Self defense laws get pretty lax when you have intruders inside your home. Theres a few states that expect you to run like a girl but not very damn many.

 

[LTC8K6]

http://hunting.about.com/od/shotgun/l/aastshotgunfaqa.htm

A cylinder choke at 10 yards puts out a pattern of 20", an Improved cylinder puts out a pattern of 15".

Assuming linear, you're probably looking at a 10-15" pattern at 7 yards. You gotta understand chokes my friend. A home defense weapon is most likely to have a cylinder or wider boar, thus creating a better spread.

As for stopping power, I don't think anyone has really debated that point.

EDIT: A correction to my earlier statement is that the IC puts out the 2 foot pattern at 20 yards. FYI.

That's with birdshot. You'll be using 00 buck and aiming if you're smart.

 

[LTC8K6]

Not sure what shotguns you've fired, but it is generally easier to control the recoil on a 8lb weapon vs. a 2lb weapon. And a 2 3/4" 12ga load at 1250fps doesn't generate nearly the amount of recoil as other loads do (3 1/2" super magnum loads).

http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_1...=SPM5009946801

PGO shotguns are not acceptable for home defense. Period. They are difficult to control.

 

[Modelworks]

A lot of what happens in a shooting depends on where you live. For example NC has a set of laws governing shooting and self defense but how hard those laws are enforced depends on where in the state that shooting took place. Where my brother lives and where I grew up it is very rural. There the sheriff actually recommended people have firearms for protection. The reason was that from the time you call 911 it can take up to 30 minutes for someone to show up at the home. I don't recall them ever prosecuting someone for shooting an intruder in the 20+ years I lived in the area. It still is one of those places where people sleep with their door unlocked at night, and part of it is because you know that messing with someone else property can get you killed.

 

[mvbighead]

IMO, the time to press your tactical advantage is when you have it - you don't want to level the playing field by revealing your location, your capabilities and your intentions. Say you announce your presence and the intruder leaves - what then? Do you think they are just going to scratch your house off their list of targets now that they know you have at least one firearm that can be easily flipped for cash, or better yet, used in their next crime? Are you going to be home, awake and alert 24/7 to try to scare them off yet again? All you have done is educate them, and possibly delayed their return visit. I certainly don't want to find myself in the position of having to use deadly force on someone, but if I do I don't want to risk my life to give them a fair fight.

This is probably true, however I would like to believe that most intruders aren't looking for confrontation. They're looking for easy in and out and collecting stuff. If not, then perhaps you're right, and they'll come back later. I just hope I never have to find out.

 

[LTC8K6]

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot20.htm

Buckshot patterning.

More...

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot18.htm

 

[BrunoPuntzJones]

http://hunting.about.com/od/shotgun/l/aastshotgunfaqa.htm

A cylinder choke at 10 yards puts out a pattern of 20", an Improved cylinder puts out a pattern of 15".

Assuming linear, you're probably looking at a 10-15" pattern at 7 yards. You gotta understand chokes my friend. A home defense weapon is most likely to have a cylinder or wider boar, thus creating a better spread.

As for stopping power, I don't think anyone has really debated that point.

EDIT: A correction to my earlier statement is that the IC puts out the 2 foot pattern at 20 yards. FYI.

I shoot competition sporting clays 😉

It's really not linear, just made it easy to say 6" 😛 At short distances the shot cup may not have even fully expanded. But patterning seems to be based more on the shell itself than the choke these days. Flite Control stuff seems to pattern about the same in whatever it is shot out of.

Just don't want people to get the wrong idea they can shoot willy-nilly and not have to aim. Didn't mean to get bogged down in technical/specifics.

 

[JDMnAR1]

I don't know of any state that allows you to kill someone.

Castle Doctrine with no duty to retreat...

Arkansas Code of 1987 Annotated Official Edition Court Rules 2011
© 1987-2011 by the State of Arkansas
All rights reserved.

*** CURRENT THROUGH THE 2011 REGULAR SESSION AND UPDATES ***
*** FROM THEARKANSAS CODE REVISION COMMISSION THROUGH ***
*** JUNE 2, 2011 ***

Title 5 Criminal Offenses
Subtitle 1. General Provisions
Chapter 2 Principles of Criminal Liability
Subchapter 6 -- Justification

A.C.A. § 5-2-607 (2011)

5-2-607. Use of deadly physical force in defense of a person.

(a) A person is justified in using deadly physical force upon another person if the person reasonably believes that the other person is:

(1) Committing or about to commit a felony involving force or violence;

(2) Using or about to use unlawful deadly physical force; or

(3) Imminently endangering the person's life or imminently about to victimize the person as described in § 9-15-103 from the continuation of a pattern of domestic abuse.

(b) A person may not use deadly physical force in self-defense if the person knows that he or she can avoid the necessity of using deadly physical force with complete safety:

(1) (A) By retreating.

(B) However, a person is not required to retreat if the person is:

(i) In the person's dwelling or on the curtilage surrounding the person's dwelling and was not the original aggressor; or

(ii) A law enforcement officer or a person assisting at the direction of a law enforcement officer; or

(2) By surrendering possession of property to a person claiming a lawful right to possession of the property.

(c) As used in this section:

(1) "Curtilage" means the land adjoining a dwelling that is convenient for residential purposes and habitually used for residential purposes, but not necessarily enclosed, and includes an outbuilding that is directly and intimately connected with the dwelling and in close proximity to the dwelling; and

(2) "Domestic abuse" means:

(A) Physical harm, bodily injury, assault, or the infliction of fear of imminent physical harm, bodily injury, or assault between family or household members; or

(B) Any sexual conduct between family or household members, whether minors or adults, that constitutes a crime under the laws of this state.

HISTORY: Acts 1975, No. 280, § 507; A.S.A. 1947, § 41-507; Acts 1997, No. 1257, § 1; 2007, No. 111, § 1; 2009, No. 748, § 2.

 

[KeithP]

If you (and your wife) can handle the recoil I'd go 12 gauge pump.

Chainsaw should limit the recoil issue. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ahiIbQS9HE

-KeithP

 

[edro]

uh...


Ind. Code Section 35-41-3-2 (b) A person: (1) is justified in using reasonable force, including deadly force, against another person; and (2) does not have a duty to retreat; if the person reasonably believes that the force is necessary to prevent or terminate the other person's unlawful entry of or attack on the person's dwelling..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castle_doctrine#Adoption_by_States

Wow, there are a lot more states on that list than I thought.
My bad. Edited previous responses so no one is confused.

 

[Squisher]

PGO shotguns are not acceptable for home defense. Period. They are difficult to control.

Help her up

Mmm.

 

[TheNinja]

uh...


Ind. Code Section 35-41-3-2 (b) A person: (1) is justified in using reasonable force, including deadly force, against another person; and (2) does not have a duty to retreat; if the person reasonably believes that the force is necessary to prevent or terminate the other person's unlawful entry of or attack on the person's dwelling..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castle_doctrine#Adoption_by_States

Cool - California is actually on the list, which surprises me.

California (California Penal Code § 198.5 sets forth that unlawful, forcible entry into one's residence by someone not a member of the household creates the presumption that the resident held a reasonable fear of imminent peril of death or great bodily injury should he or she use deadly force against the intruder. This would make the homicide justifiable under CPC § 197 [3]. CALCRIM 506 gives the instruction, "A defendant is not required to retreat. He or she is entitled to stand his ground and defend himself and, if reasonably necessary, to pursue an assailant until the danger ... has passed. This is so even if safety could have been achieved by retreating." However, it also states that "[People v. Ceballos] specifically held that burglaries which 'do not reasonably create a fear of great bodily harm' are not sufficient 'cause for exaction of human life.'” The court held that because a "trap-gun" was used, the doctrine did not apply

So I can assume anyone breaking into my home is there to cause death or great harm and can confront and kill them. HOWEVER they must also pose sufficient cause for bodily harm for me to kill them. Looks like I need to make a judgement call.

 

[Jeeebus]

you have impact glass?

seems a bit overkill ...

Not really for intruders. More for teh hurricanes. Our windows were paper thin and original contractor grade. Expensive to replace, but they sure as hell keep the sound out now.