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Newsflash - "normal" computer users can't handle things that require 6 steps.

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VirtualLarry said:
Things like,
1) Updating your web browser (Firefox and derivatives, I'm look at you.)
2) Updating your anti-virus or anti-malware definititions
3) Even doing a basic Explorer copy+paste file backup to a USB flash drive or external HDD

End-users just can't figure these things out!

And you wonder why newer programs and OSes just keep getting dumbed-down.
Click to expand...

The default install options for 1 & 2 are generally for auto updates and require a single click to update for the most part. Many for #2 are completely automatic. 😕
 
Phoenix86 said:
The default install options for 1 & 2 are generally for auto updates and require a single click to update for the most part. Many for #2 are completely automatic. 😕
Click to expand...

Firefox is pretty much self-updating too. I can't think of the last time I've had to even do one click to update it. Just I open the browser and it informs me it is now version whatever.
 
rudeguy said:
OP makes threads like this all the time. He's convinced he is a computer genius and everyone else is ignorant.
Click to expand...

No, it's because I heard from a "normal" person today that their Waterfox was complaining about needing an update, and that "why does it need updating every week?", and "I know you showed me how to update it last time, but... that's just way too many steps".

PS. YOU and I may be "computer geniuses", but there are a lot of otherwise-capable but computer-ignorant people out there, that literally cannot handle simple things like browser and flash player updates. I have to walk another friend through flash player updates like every other week over the phone.

I was just commenting on that fact, and that fact is a major factor in the "dumbing down" of programs and OSes.

Lord help me walk someone through copying a disc with ImgBurn, takes like 1-2 hours.

Edit: Not to mention, helping other people that "download programs" using Firefox / Waterfox, and "can't find their downloads".

Edit: I didn't post this thread to attempt to feel superior, I posted it to inform. Way too many of us on this forum (let's not kid ourselves here, most of us are fairly "elite" users, or even IT workers) forget what it's like to be a "normal" / "clueless" user.

Things that we take for granted to be able to do, like update a web browser, or Flash Player, are actually difficult to bordering on nearly impossible, for many people. (This was a bit of a mind-blowing revelation to me.)
 
Last edited:
SparkyJJO said:
Firefox is pretty much self-updating too. I can't think of the last time I've had to even do one click to update it. Just I open the browser and it informs me it is now version whatever.
Click to expand...

Firefox is, if you install the maintenance service. Waterfox is not. It requires like 5-6 "click steps" to update.
 
That's why everything auto updates today. Actually I'm surprised Firefox for Windows doesn't. I only use it on Linux so everything is done through the package manager.

Edit: okay, so Firefox does self update on Windows. Just Waterfox that doesn't.

I'd like to add that if you have to make a video to teach people how to use your iPhone app, you're doing it wrong. Yes, I worked for a company that actually did that.
 
All is not lost though, some people aren't totally clueless, and are capable of learning.

One friend of mine, he was given a PC (PIII with XP, I think), and learned on that somewhat, and then he came to me to build him a new PC, his first very own one. I built it for him, in front of him, and he learned. (It was a S775 E5200 rig, with a Gigabyte P45 mobo, and Windows 7.)

When it finally came time to replace that rig (which I accelerated, because I made him a generous offer on his old kit, because it was a mostly drop-in replacement for the gear in my unRAID server, and I wanted a backup), he actually built his own PC, with me advising him.

He had also put in a dual-boot with Linux (I forget the first distro he used, but he's a fan of Mint), and has primarily become a Linux user. (I can use Linux mostly fine, I know how to compile a kernel, but it still has too many annoying rough edges for me. Windows 7 is just far more polished, and "everything works".)

So, he's gone from a hand-me-down PIII PC with XP, to a S775 (upgraded to a quad-core at my urging, to convert video), and then to a self-built AMD APU with Win7 and Linux Mint.

I consider him an "enthusiast" now.
 
VirtualLarry said:
No, it's because I heard from a "normal" person today that their Waterfox was complaining about needing an update, and that "why does it need updating every week?", and "I know you showed me how to update it last time, but... that's just way too many steps".

PS. YOU and I may be "computer geniuses", but there are a lot of otherwise-capable but computer-ignorant people out there, that literally cannot handle simple things like browser and flash player updates. I have to walk another friend through flash player updates like every other week over the phone.

I was just commenting on that fact, and that fact is a major factor in the "dumbing down" of programs and OSes.

Lord help me walk someone through copying a disc with ImgBurn, takes like 1-2 hours.

Edit: Not to mention, helping other people that "download programs" using Firefox / Waterfox, and "can't find their downloads".

Edit: I didn't post this thread to attempt to feel superior, I posted it to inform. Way too many of us on this forum (let's not kid ourselves here, most of us are fairly "elite" users, or even IT workers) forget what it's like to be a "normal" / "clueless" user.

Things that we take for granted to be able to do, like update a web browser, or Flash Player, are actually difficult to bordering on nearly impossible, for many people. (This was a bit of a mind-blowing revelation to me.)
Click to expand...

I seriously think your problem is with your people skills.

I am not "elite" or a "genius". I just know some things. Other people know other things. Its not my job to judge what they know. Its my job to help them learn how to do the things they need to be able to do.

I deal with a team of very technology impaired people on a daily basis. They are straight up afraid of technology. I take the extra couple of seconds to calm them down and then walk them through things in a way they can understand.

I'm trying to help when I say this: Get off your pedestal. You aren't special. The people who don't know everything you do are not inferior to you.
 
Not sure what roll you're in there, but why in the hell would the company PCs use waterfox anyway? Hell use Firefox extended support and it only version upgrades every 10th iteration. Or better yet, package all that shit up in ad with a deployment tool and upgrade it in the background. Relying on end users to do the job means it never gets done.
 
rudeguy said:
I seriously think your problem is with your people skills.

I'm trying to help when I say this: Get off your pedestal. You aren't special. The people who don't know everything you do are not inferior to you.
Click to expand...
I never said that they were inferior, but it blows my mind that some people simply cannot learn, or refuse to learn, and complain about not knowing, and complain about not being able to follow directions, when you spell it out for them over and over and they write it down.

I've offered several times to sit down with this person, and help them learn how to use a computer and the internet, but they always shrug me off. Then they claim they hate computers.

And they refuse to "learn by doing". They write every step down on a sheet of paper, and they don't actually perform the steps. They refuse / are afraid to, or something.

It's like teaching someone to ride a bicycle, when they refuse to sit on the seat, but prefer that you give them a lecture on how to ride it.

Then they ask you to ride it for them. (They ask me to do internet searches for them, and "print out that web site".) I finally put my foot down and said no, I'm not doing internet searches for you.

I'm not going to be someone's chauffeur, for the rest of my life, just because they refuse to get their driver's license.
 
rudeguy said:
I take the extra couple of seconds to calm them down and then walk them through things in a way they can understand.
Click to expand...
What do you do with the ones that refuse to let you walk them through it, but instead, ask you to "just do it for me"? Constantly. The ones that abjectly refuse to learn, or even attempt to learn?
 
Those things require 6 steps? Are we counting turning your computer on, logging in, and opening the program as the first three?
 
VirtualLarry said:
What do you do with the ones that refuse to let you walk them through it, but instead, ask you to "just do it for me"? Constantly. The ones that abjectly refuse to learn, or even attempt to learn?
Click to expand...

Take some courses. Ask for some training.

You need it.
 
DannyBoy said:
ORLY?
Click to expand...

Yep. He had some big long rant about how he knew more about computers than some guy at Best Buy. He made a point of being a dick to some poor minimum wage worker who was just trying to help him.

If the OP's job is to help users, he needs a new line of work.
 
Install a fledgling techie oriented browser on a newbs PC, complain about how the user doesn't do the manual updates...

Complain about how AV doesn't auto update. Umm they all do.

File copy is basic user education and also not 6 steps.
 
My favorite aspect of end users is their ability to report issues in the worst way possible. "It doesn't work anymore, why did you break it? You evil people, God will surely punish you!" No idea of what doesn't work, they never include the error code, no mention of when it started happening, etc...

So happy we don't have a public issue tracker anymore.
 
gdansk said:
My favorite aspect of end users is their ability to report issues in the worst way possible. "It doesn't work anymore, why did you break it? You evil people, God will surely punish you!" No idea of what doesn't work, they never include the error code, no mention of when it started happening, etc...

So happy we don't have a public issue tracker anymore.
Click to expand...

This is my main issue.

We use a ticket system and its taken me almost a year to at least get the location of the issue included in the ticket. I've given up getting any details. 90% of my tickets are exactly this:

"Location XYZ

Terminal is not working"



That's it. I deal with it in my own little way. If that's all I get, all I will do is ship a new one. If its a location where this happens often, it takes a couple extra days to get there 😀
 
Truth. Most end users are very timid about doing anything on a PC. They legitimately think they can make it explode or catch on fire.
 
darkewaffle said:
Truth. Most end users are very timid about doing anything on a PC. They legitimately think they can make it explode or catch on fire.
Click to expand...

Or that it has emotions and it hates them.

OP you described why within ten years the Windows x86 ecosystem will be "for businesses" and most consumers will access the internet on mobile devices or laptops that are glorified web browsers.

And that is the way it should be. There is no reason for people to have to jump through these hoops. The system should offer them a sandbox worth a damn, and keep it filled with sand automatically if they decide to use it.

It has been nice having all these normals waste money on PCs they barely use, as they drove down the price for us nerds when they threw that virused up computer away and bought a new one. But that economy of scale is leaving the Wintel market, which is why Intel hasn't had a major IPC boost since 2011 and the 2013 x86 "Next Gen Consoles" are weaker than my 2011 mid-range gaming desktop.

What you need to do is face facts and start getting into mobile. I accepted the death of Wintel back in 2010. Learn how to ROM Android, or Jailbreak iOS, and there goes your shackles in many cases. Hell nowadays Android is almost as functional as OSX is for me.
 
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