Newsflash - "normal" computer users can't handle things that require 6 steps.

[VirtualLarry]

Is a Chromebook not a laptop?

No, it's not. Laptops run applications. (Mac, PC, or Linux, as appropriate.) Chromebooks can only browse the web.

 

[smackababy]

No, it's not. Laptops run applications. (Mac, PC, or Linux, as appropriate.) Chromebooks can only browse the web.

Hmm, funny the definition of laptop says nothing of the sort.

Laptop: a computer that is portable and suitable for use while traveling.

 

[VirtualLarry]

I honestly never get reactions like that from people who aren't already emotionally unstable. (and you gotta be tuned in enough to catch those people and do what they're going to want before it escalates.)

Unless there's a bottle of lithium next to the computer, I think you may be missing a key factor.

Is that why they refuse to sit down in a chair or car seat without covering it in plastic? Take their own silverware into restaurants?

Oh yeah, that must be my fault too, for not offering good customer service... better look into those classes.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Hmm, funny the definition of laptop says nothing of the sort.

Laptop: a computer that is portable and suitable for use while traveling.

Calling a ChromeBook a laptop, is like calling an ATM machine a PC. I mean, after all, they both have a screen, a keypad, and run Windows, right?

 

[rudeguy]

Also, be self-effacing. Tell them about the time you set your computer on fire.

Oh, and lie. Like, a crapton. Any mistake they made that you correct, tell a little story about how you learned that the hard way and lost your term paper or something. Even if you never made that mistake before in your life.

This!

If you see them having a hard time with something, tell them how stupid that thing is and that you don't know why they made it so poorly. Especially if the thing is fine. You want to build confidence in them. Make them feel superior to the technology.

A good method of training is:
explain what you are going to do
show the person how to do it
ask if they have any questions on what they saw
observe them doing it
provide positive feedback

 

[VirtualLarry]

A good method of training is:
explain what you are going to do
show the person how to do it
ask if they have any questions on what they saw
observe them doing it
provide positive feedback

That sounds very good, but how would you manage it, if they don't want to actually do / try it? That they prefer to simply write down the steps, afresh, every time you try to explain it to them?

I try to encourage them, it's not like I'm sitting there calling them stupid or something.

Edit: I guess that I'm a big believer in "learning by doing". But this person only wants to write steps down when I try to show them. They won't even watch the entire sequence of what I'm trying to show them.

 

[rudeguy]

That sounds very good, but how would you manage it, if they don't want to actually do / try it? That they prefer to simply write down the steps, afresh, every time you try to explain it to them?

I try to encourage them, it's not like I'm sitting there calling them stupid or something.

Edit: I guess that I'm a big believer in "learning by doing". But this person only wants to write steps down when I try to show them. They won't even watch the entire sequence of what I'm trying to show them.

People learn in different ways. Some are tactile, some are visual, some are oral. The latter are my favorite for obvious reasons : . The method I described is designed to appeal to them all.

If someone refuses to learn, find out why. Ask them how you can make it better for them. Yes sometimes there are jerks but I can count those on one hand from all my days. You have to swallow your pride and treat some people like princesses. It sucks but you have to. I hate humility but I have to practice it very day.

I've been training people for a 17 years now. I've done everything from restaurant to sales to electronics. The subject changes but the methods are always the same.

 

[lxskllr]

I've been training people for a 17 years now. I've done everything from restaurant to sales to electronics. The subject changes but the methods are always the same.

Some people are just stupid. there's no other way to put it. I've had to teach people that made me want to step in front of a car. Some people are born to operate a broom.

 

[rudeguy]

Some people are just stupid. there's no other way to put it. I've had to teach people that made me want to step in front of a car. Some people are born to operate a broom.

The first rule of training someone how to use a broom: assume they don't know what a broom is.

Same thing with teaching someone how to burn an image or update their browser. It usually comes down to them being afraid of messing up. I have fun with it and encourage them to mess up. Let them know we can fix anything that goes wrong.

It all comes down to your patience, not their intelligence. After all...we're all dumbasses.

 

[lxskllr]

The first rule of training someone how to use a broom: assume they don't know what a broom is.

Same thing with teaching someone how to burn an image or update their browser. It usually comes down to them being afraid of messing up. I have fun with it and encourage them to mess up. Let them know we can fix anything that goes wrong.

It all comes down to your patience, not their intelligence. After all...we're all dumbasses.

Nonsense. I have patience that approaches infinite, but drops off a cliff at the end when I realize my student is an idiot. You can't teach people how to think. You can teach them to push buttons, but that isn't knowledge. There's no understanding. A chimp can be taught to push buttons.

 

[Humpy]

Things like,
1) Updating your web browser (Firefox and derivatives, I'm look at you.)
2) Updating your anti-virus or anti-malware definititions
3) Even doing a basic Explorer copy+paste file backup to a USB flash drive or external HDD

End-users just can't figure these things out!

And you wonder why newer programs and OSes just keep getting dumbed-down.

Old people can't handle the idea that no one wants, or needs, to do that shit anymore. It's just not important. Deal with it.

 

[rudeguy]

Nonsense. I have patience that approaches infinite, but drops off a cliff at the end when I realize my student is an idiot. You can't teach people how to think. You can teach them to push buttons, but that isn't knowledge. There's no understanding. A chimp can be taught to push buttons.

I think I know you well enough to say this but please let me know if I'm wrong:

You have to know why you are doing something. If someone tells you to do something one way, you automatically think of a different, better way. You prefer to learn hands on rather than from a book.

Does that all sound about right?

 

[lxskllr]

I think I know you well enough to say this but please let me know if I'm wrong:

You have to know why you are doing something. If someone tells you to do something one way, you automatically think of a different, better way. You prefer to learn hands on rather than from a book.

Does that all sound about right?

That's probably close. A little more accurate is I'll use the button pushing monkey approach for immediate expediency, then figure out why I'm pushing buttons, and if it doesn't feel ideal under field conditions, I'll see if it can be improved on.

My biggest piss off with others is they treat technology of all kinds as a magic box. You push the right buttons, or twiddle the lever in the right fashion, you please the gods, and they allow the thing to work. There's no concept that it(whatever "it" is) is a machine that works exactly like a pulley. Just because the "work" isn't blatently obvious(pull the rope on one side, the load raises on the other), doesn't mean that it isn't discoverable, or predictable, and then extrapolated to other similar, but not necessarily identical situations.

 

[Red Squirrel]

Part of the issue is some people can't grasp simple concepts with computers and have to turn everything into a step by step thing. To me, copying a file is 1 step. Some people will make that like 10 steps. They actually make it more complicated than it has to be. I actually see this in the Linux world at times, some huge complicated instructions on how to do something, and you kind of have to follow it because there might be a key thing in there that you don't want to miss, then after you're done you realize, you just had to copy a file to a location. Why didn't you say so!

 

[rudeguy]

That's probably close. A little more accurate is I'll use the button pushing monkey approach for immediate expediency, then figure out why I'm pushing buttons, and if it doesn't feel ideal under field conditions, I'll see if it can be improved on.

My biggest piss off with others is they treat technology of all kinds as a magic box. You push the right buttons, or twiddle the lever in the right fashion, you please the gods, and they allow the thing to work. There's no concept that it(whatever "it" is) is a machine that works exactly like a pulley. Just because the "work" isn't blatently obvious(pull the rope on one side, the load raises on the other), doesn't mean that it isn't discoverable, or predictable, and then extrapolated to other similar, but not necessarily identical situations.

LOL

You are my least favorite person to train. No matter what I tell you or show you, you're not going to do it my way unless it's your last option

Most people don't want to know why they need to do something and if they coukd, they wouldn't even learn how to do it.

 

[ctbaars]

I'm amazed that I move my hamster and the arrow moves on the screen. I would gladly take and respect your instruction. I'll get curious and accidentally break it on my own time. Aren't most people are like this?

 

[lxskllr]

LOL

You are my least favorite person to train. No matter what I tell you or show you, you're not going to do it my way unless it's your last option

Most people don't want to know why they need to do something and if they coukd, they wouldn't even learn how to do it.

You'd be lucky to have me as a student. You might even learn something.

:^P

 

[Mixolydian]

im good at computers.

 

[Phoenix86]

Because Waterfox is the safest, fastest, and most developed 64-bit browser out of those.
And this user in particular doesn't close their browser for months at a time. So to prevent strange errors from OOM conditions with a 32-bit browser, I set them up with a 64-bit browser and 16GB of RAM. It's all about catering to the user with the best solution for them.

The best solution in that case is training, not unnecessary expenses and a snowflake browser. I'm sorry, but you are creating your own problems by not solving them properly.

How are you updating the computer if it doesn't reboot for months on end? That should happen monthly at a minimum.

I expect you to react negatively to this, because you're an expert. It sounds like you know what you're doing on a PC and perhaps a server, but you do not understand effective IT management. Consider you're approach, while technically correct, is not the appropriate solution.

 

[Phoenix86]

Calling a ChromeBook a laptop, is like calling an ATM machine a PC. I mean, after all, they both have a screen, a keypad, and run Windows, right?

They are specialized laptops. They are not a windows platform. They have applications, just not all the ones you might need, because it's specialized. A ball peen hammer is still a hammer, but you wouldn't use it to hang a fence.

PCs are defined by their use, while an ATM has all the components of a PC (cpu/ram/storage/IO/etc.), it's not a PC because it's not being used as a personal computer. It's still a computer.

You lack the ability to translate technology to English. This is why you can't make someone understand they need to at least close a browser once in a while and give them 16GB RAM and a unique browser to take advantage of it.

 

[dave_the_nerd]

No, it's not. Laptops run applications. (Mac, PC, or Linux, as appropriate.) Chromebooks can only browse the web.

Chromebooks are running...

...

...wait for it...

A Web Browser!

Which is an application.

Also, Chrome Apps.

Also, other applications and daemons. It's a skinned Linux. Ctrl-Alt-F2 or whatever and go to town in the terminal.

 

[dave_the_nerd]

Is that why they refuse to sit down in a chair or car seat without covering it in plastic? Take their own silverware into restaurants?

Oh yeah, that must be my fault too, for not offering good customer service... better look into those classes.

I said it sounds like either they're emotionally unstable, or you're missing something.

If you're not lying, then it's pretty clearly the first one.

But you don't learn good customer service in classes, you learn it with experience.

 

[dave_the_nerd]

You'd be lucky to have me as a student. You might even learn something.

:^P

I know you probably mean to imply that he has nothing to teach you, but please allow me to put my hippy-dippy hat on and remind you that the best teachers learn from their students. ()

 

[gdansk]

Chromebooks are running...

...

...wait for it...

A Web Browser!

Which is an application.

Also, Chrome Apps.

Also, other applications and daemons. It's a skinned Linux. Ctrl-Alt-F2 or whatever and go to town in the terminal.

And the best part: you can chroot! You don't even have to use their shitty window manager.

 

[VirtualLarry]

You lack the ability to translate technology to English. This is why you can't make someone understand they need to at least close a browser once in a while and give them 16GB RAM and a unique browser to take advantage of it.

Not at all. I believe that I am actually quite good at explaining things. But some people don't want to "understand computers". To elaborate on Lxkllr's approach, some people want to treat a computer like a magic monkey box, and just "press buttons". They don't want to understand why they're pressing buttons, or that there is an order, a rime (*) or reason to it.

I guess I could instruct them to "click the red X in the upper-right corner to close the browser, weekly". They could follow that direction. But they wouldn't understand why they are doing it, or anything to do with memory management, memory leaks, etc.

Truth be told, I also leave my Waterfox open for months at a time as well. It is a very robust browser, overall, and can handle that. (Although there was a recent change in the Firefox code base that seems to limit how many images the browser can load over its runtime lifetime, for some strange reason. To my view, it appears to be a bug.)

(*) Waterfox didn't give me a spelling error on that word, but it doesn't look right to me.

Edit: A different friend wondered why you have to reboot an Android tablet every once in a while, why you couldn't just keep using it indefinitely. I guess, taking the suggestions from this thread, I should have told him "The magic monkeys inside the tablet get tired, and start to mess up, and sometimes they just need to rest for a while." Rather than try to explain memory-management and heap fragmentation and contiguous application allocations.