Newer HDTVs better than crt-based HDTVs?

[Shadowknight]

Originally posted by: MercenaryForHire

Originally posted by: BrunoPuntzJones

Originally posted by: LegendKiller
You need to go to a store and figure that out for yourself. Contrast ratios are measured so inconsitantly and are so variable that quoted ratios are worthless. You can have a 10,000:1 ratio Plasma look the same as a 1,600:1 Plasma, or the same as a 1,600:1 LCD.

It's all about what you like.

I've never been in a store that knew anything about how to hook up their a/v equipment.

I've been in one. It was a small Mom-and-Pop style one, independently owned and operated. They had high-quality feeds for their showpiece sets, amplified and cleaned ones for the rest, and were more than willing to shuffle a DVD player over to the one you were interested in and connect it so you could try out a few scenes.

Uh, for at least TWO YEARS the local BJ's warehouse had a really bad feed. REALLY bad. As in, it was full of snow and static. The only exception was a couple of Sony's that were plugged in directly to it's own DVD player with an HDMI or Component setup. About a month ago they FINALLY got a decent feed going through. I have no idea why they thought they could possibly move any TVs with a display setup that awful.

 

[Born2bwire]

Originally posted by: Dari
Hmmm, I'm surprised to hear this. How are those slim-crt televisions from samsung? They were invented by IBM and they (IBM) claimed that they would be the best of both worlds. Anybody here seen any?

Take a close look at them. I have one but had to junk it because of geometry problems in the tube (actually, I've gone through three friggin CRT's that had bad tubes the past year but different models and brands).

The main problem with Slim-fit is that the resolution is much less near the edges of the screen. This is a compromise to get the tube that thin, you can definitely notice the change in resolution when looking at text from a HD signal (or even just the service menu). While I still like CRTs for their blacks, they do not have the resolution that flat panels can get. In addition, the manufacturing tolerances have gone to crap lately. I would hold on to your CRT until you find a LCD that you like. Personally, I'll take LCD's over CRT's now despite their drawbacks. As for ghosting, most LCD's that I've seen have 8 ms response times so there aren't any lag problems anymore.

 

[Demon-Xanth]

What Dari is referring to are SEDs, and they're not out yet. (early 2008 is the last I heard).

 

[Born2bwire]

Originally posted by: Demon-Xanth
What Dari is referring to are SEDs, and they're not out yet. (early 2008 is the last I heard).

Those are being developed by Canon. Samsung does have a line of CRT's called the SlimFit.

 

[BoberFett]

Originally posted by: Yreka

Originally posted by: Chris
No. Nothing out yet comes close to CRTs as far as contrast and black levels goes.

Does this also hold true for CRT RPTV's ?

I have this Sony CRT RPTV and the picture is gorgeous.

 

[dwell]

Originally posted by: Demon-Xanth
What Dari is referring to are SEDs, and they're not out yet. (early 2008 is the last I heard).

SED is vaporware.

 

[DBL]

Take a look at Panasonics new plasma line. IMO, blacks are not an issue with this line and the overall picture quality and resolution displayed from the 1080p version is better than anything CRT based. If you somehow decide that the blacks are not black enough, I suppose you could wait for the new Pioneer and likely pay 2x the price.

 

[rbV5]

Hard to beat a quality 9" CRT Projector

 

[Ramma2]

I've never looked at my panasonic plasma and thought "Gee, that black just doesn't look black enough."

Not having a 3/4 ton TV is worth any black level discrepencies I'll never notice.

Take the plunge! You'll love it, I promise.

 

[Dravic]

Originally posted by: Ramma2
I've never looked at my panasonic plasma and thought "Gee, that black just doesn't look black enough."

Not having a 3/4 ton TV is worth any black level discrepencies I'll never notice.

Take the plunge! You'll love it, I promise.

Moving my 57" RPTV into the basement was easier then hanging my friends 50" plasma, mine splits into 2 pieces.

now the single tube CRT's are heavy at and above about 30", but your not lifting the thing as a workout, all of them are usually one time moves.

 

[BD2003]

Originally posted by: TheAdvocate
the new LED backlit LCDs from Samsung sound promising, but in general, the only reason for you to upgrade is for a (much) bigger screen or the ability to wall mount.

there is far too much bickering on these and other forums over very minor differences in picture quality. the truth is, once you get any HDTV home, and hook it up to any HD source, it's gonne be noticeably better than even the best SD. And the differences in quality between one HD set and the next are pretty much equivalent to small clock cycle differences in cpus. It's more about bragging rights than actual real world performance, and no one feature is everything.

I dunno about that...a crt with good black levels almost looks like youre looking through a window. True, the things are so huge and heavy that theyre borderline unpractical, but I cant see myself upgrading until I can get a set that comes close.

 

[JackBurton]

You're looking for this. Pioneer will have their new models out in June with their 1080p models out in September. All I can tell you is, if you have the money, there is no HDTV better. And I'm sure you'll be VERY happy with the black levels (THE best black levels) and brightness. The upgrade will be like night and day for you.

 

[PricklyPete]

Originally posted by: MercenaryForHire
Not unless you desperately need more inches.



- M4H

Oooh...sign me up...um..

 

[Dari]

Originally posted by: JackBurton
You're looking for this. Pioneer will have their new models out in June with their 1080p models out in September. All I can tell you is, if you have the money, there is no HDTV better. And I'm sure you'll be VERY happy with the black levels (THE best black levels) and brightness. The upgrade will be like night and day for you.

WTF is that, a plasma? Got a model number I can search?

 

[Sheep]

Originally posted by: Demon-Xanth
If you game, CRTs are still better than LCD HDTVs. There's a lag on LCD HDTVs that acts as a handicap.

Fun fact:
I have a 20" CRT TV in my bedroom, I picked up a 20" LCD HDTV on a Woot deal. I replaced the CRT with the LCD on Friday as soon as I got the LCD. On Sunday, I switched it back and made the LCD a monitor on my linux box.

Lag isn't an issue on the two LCD's I've played video games on (both Sharp Aquos models, one 37" and one 32").

 

[JackBurton]

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: JackBurton
You're looking for this. Pioneer will have their new models out in June with their 1080p models out in September. All I can tell you is, if you have the money, there is no HDTV better. And I'm sure you'll be VERY happy with the black levels (THE best black levels) and brightness. The upgrade will be like night and day for you.

WTF is that, a plasma? Got a model number I can search?

Sure, bottom of the page you'll find the new Pioneer models. And yes, they are plasmas.

Here's a little quick review and thread for the new models. And here is the MONSTER THREAD for the new panels.

Pioneer is set to release the king of all HD sets. And from what everyone has been saying that have seen them in person, it isn't just a slight improvement over the previous generation. They are AMAZING! If you can afford it, it will be THE BEST HD set you will be able to buy in 2007.

 

[venkman]

For a price of course.

 

[Slammy1]

Black levels and contrast are really subjective. Many would argue that the black levels of a crt aren't as realistic as an LCD, but that being used to tubed displays makes a crt preferable for most consumers. A good test is to turn off the lights at night and compare, te LCD will look more like a dark room than the crt (to some extent, it's a positive and negative in being able to discern black detail). How well SD displays is dependent on scaler, there are a lot of non-intuitive things you an do to improve PQ. For example, I have an S-Video scaler I plug SD into which runs great on my 1080p display. If I plug it into composite it looks like crap. he best display is what's best for you.

 

[JackBurton]

Originally posted by: venkman
For a price of course.

The best ALWAYS comes at a price.

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: Slammy1
Black levels and contrast are really subjective. Many would argue that the black levels of a crt aren't as realistic as an LCD, but that being used to tubed displays makes a crt preferable for most consumers. A good test is to turn off the lights at night and compare, te LCD will look more like a dark room than the crt (to some extent, it's a positive and negative in being able to discern black detail). How well SD displays is dependent on scaler, there are a lot of non-intuitive things you an do to improve PQ. For example, I have an S-Video scaler I plug SD into which runs great on my 1080p display. If I plug it into composite it looks like crap. he best display is what's best for you.

Umm, NO!

There is no subjective aspect to black level. It's either black or it isn't.

A displays black level is paramount to it's performance. If it can't produce black how in the world is it supposed to display good color under 30 IRE?

 

[Rio Rebel]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: Slammy1
Black levels and contrast are really subjective. Many would argue that the black levels of a crt aren't as realistic as an LCD, but that being used to tubed displays makes a crt preferable for most consumers. A good test is to turn off the lights at night and compare, te LCD will look more like a dark room than the crt (to some extent, it's a positive and negative in being able to discern black detail). How well SD displays is dependent on scaler, there are a lot of non-intuitive things you an do to improve PQ. For example, I have an S-Video scaler I plug SD into which runs great on my 1080p display. If I plug it into composite it looks like crap. he best display is what's best for you.

Umm, NO!

There is no subjective aspect to black level. It's either black or it isn't.

A displays black level is paramount to it's performance. If it can't produce black how in the world is it supposed to display good color under 30 IRE?

That's true, but you missed his bigger point. We have different needs. I have an ED plasma upstairs (bought it 3 years ago when prices were higher) and I picked up a used iScan de-interlacer and it looks GREAT. In my theater room, I have a 720p Sharp Z2000 that puts out a wonderful picture, but it doesn't scale well at all. In both cases, my displays would not be best for someone planning to watch predominantly standard 480i. But when you have a source that does the work on the front end and takes the work off the display, it looks great.

If you play games, you wouldn't want my plasma. If you don't have a light controlled room, you might not want my projector. If you're one of the 10% or so who see rainbow effect, you wouldn't want DLP. It's all in what your needs are.

 

[JackBurton]

Originally posted by: Rio Rebel

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: Slammy1
Black levels and contrast are really subjective. Many would argue that the black levels of a crt aren't as realistic as an LCD, but that being used to tubed displays makes a crt preferable for most consumers. A good test is to turn off the lights at night and compare, te LCD will look more like a dark room than the crt (to some extent, it's a positive and negative in being able to discern black detail). How well SD displays is dependent on scaler, there are a lot of non-intuitive things you an do to improve PQ. For example, I have an S-Video scaler I plug SD into which runs great on my 1080p display. If I plug it into composite it looks like crap. he best display is what's best for you.

Umm, NO!

There is no subjective aspect to black level. It's either black or it isn't.

A displays black level is paramount to it's performance. If it can't produce black how in the world is it supposed to display good color under 30 IRE?

That's true, but you missed his bigger point. We have different needs. I have an ED plasma upstairs (bought it 3 years ago when prices were higher) and I picked up a used iScan de-interlacer and it looks GREAT. In my theater room, I have a 720p Sharp Z2000 that puts out a wonderful picture, but it doesn't scale well at all. In both cases, my displays would not be best for someone planning to watch predominantly standard 480i. But when you have a source that does the work on the front end and takes the work off the display, it looks great.

If you play games, you wouldn't want my plasma. If you don't have a light controlled room, you might not want my projector. If you're one of the 10% or so who see rainbow effect, you wouldn't want DLP. It's all in what your needs are.

Trust me, the new Pioneers ARE the best in HDTVs. The ONLY thing that would be better is if you had your own dedicated theater room with a high end projector. The new Pioneer pretty much do EVERYTHING well. But you don't have to take my word for it, the 5080s (new Pioneer 720p plasmas) will be hitting the shelves VERY shortly (about 2 weeks). So do yourself a favor and wait to take a look at it in person. I can pretty much guarantee you won't be disappointed. The only question is, is the performance worth the price tag to you? That's something only you can make the call on.

The 5080's MSRP is $3500 and I'm sure you can find it online much cheaper when it hits the streets. It's only a 720p set, but from the first hand accounts of people that have actually seen them in person, they're better than ANY 1080p set out now...by far. But if you want a 1080p, Pioneer will have their new models out in September...if you can wait that long. I'm personally waiting on the 6010.

 

[Rio Rebel]

Trust me, the new Pioneers ARE the best in HDTVs. The ONLY thing that would be better is if you had your own dedicated theater room with a high end projector. The new Pioneer pretty much do EVERYTHING well.

I'm sure they are awesome plasmas. Pioneer has been ahead of the field all along in plasmas.

I'm also sure that they won't equal the contrast of a CRT.

 

[pennylane]

Nothing comes close to CRT.

Personally, I plan on getting an SXRD in the near-future. Great black levels. Great contrast. Great color. Of course it's not a CRT, but for the price, I'm not sure what else is better.

 

[Slammy1]

Originally posted by: Rio Rebel

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: Slammy1
Black levels and contrast are really subjective. Many would argue that the black levels of a crt aren't as realistic as an LCD, but that being used to tubed displays makes a crt preferable for most consumers. A good test is to turn off the lights at night and compare, te LCD will look more like a dark room than the crt (to some extent, it's a positive and negative in being able to discern black detail). How well SD displays is dependent on scaler, there are a lot of non-intuitive things you an do to improve PQ. For example, I have an S-Video scaler I plug SD into which runs great on my 1080p display. If I plug it into composite it looks like crap. he best display is what's best for you.

Umm, NO!

There is no subjective aspect to black level. It's either black or it isn't.

A displays black level is paramount to it's performance. If it can't produce black how in the world is it supposed to display good color under 30 IRE?

That's true, but you missed his bigger point. We have different needs. I have an ED plasma upstairs (bought it 3 years ago when prices were higher) and I picked up a used iScan de-interlacer and it looks GREAT. In my theater room, I have a 720p Sharp Z2000 that puts out a wonderful picture, but it doesn't scale well at all. In both cases, my displays would not be best for someone planning to watch predominantly standard 480i. But when you have a source that does the work on the front end and takes the work off the display, it looks great.

If you play games, you wouldn't want my plasma. If you don't have a light controlled room, you might not want my projector. If you're one of the 10% or so who see rainbow effect, you wouldn't want DLP. It's all in what your needs are.

I was going to say more but that sums it up in better terms than I could provide. There are many uses for a display; gaming, surfing, or home theater are just the most common examples. Black level needs in a game are different from those in a movie. Perhaps the movie's director doesn't want you to make out the black detail, so an LCD, which from an objective POV has inferior black levels and contrast, would be superior for that type of source. When you turn off the lights, you do not see black surroundings you see more of a grey.

There are many lengthy threads out there on the advantages of different display technologies, and when the smart people talk (i.e. others aside from me) they say the same thing. It comes down to usage and personal preference as to what is the best technology. Similarly, there are many threads on 1080p vs 720p and there you're looking at display size and distance. In the end, all of the objective measurements fail to intended use and what we perceive as superior.