Newer CDs sound horribly Loud and distorted...

[Pepsi90919]

Originally posted by: Rubycon

Originally posted by: Jinny
I'd much rather have a 192kbps of a properly mastered song versus a 320Kbps from a poorly mastered source.

Well of course.

We have XM streams that are quite low bit rate wise yet good ORIGINAL material still sounds very listenable. Of course there's some serious post processing going on but the "garbage in garbage out" rule always applies.

A crappy 128 kbps encode of truly reference quality material with wide dynamic range just makes you want to find a better copy - pronto.

But everyone these days wants their audio with them. Particularly with open air cans and in cars with lots of background noise - they want it loud. With a wide dynamic range the volume is often set to 0 dB and guess what happens when the fortissimo comes? Welcome to clipville where there's a traveler's advisory from voice coil smoke. Don't breathe this - yes it burns! :laugh:

Put the damn compressor on the consumer playback decks. Even Sony could get that right. (of course it would take them a year to figure out how to make a compressor with DRM that mutes the output if its spectral analysis doesn't match an original label release. )

i'm pretty sure that was a result of a lawsuit way back.

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: Pepsi90919
you know, although vinyl is great, and i believe in an A-A-A recording chain if at all possible, it is possible to make a great-sounding CD.

/me is listening to supertramp's 'school' mastered by MFSL

No disagreement from me. A CD can sound fabulous if done right, a full digital chain can sound fabulous as well, if done right.

Rarely is it done right. It used to be done right with CD and now it's been fubarred.

The analog tape masters are really where it's at in terms of the START of a great recording. *GASP* I have to adjust my volume. Which brings me to another theory - this whole BS was brought on by the remote control volume. When I listen I set the volume and listen without touching it. There is no denying that louder is better, but compressed beyond all recognition isn't.

<---cues up Tom Petty's box set.

 

[Rubycon]

Originally posted by: spidey07

The analog tape masters are really where it's at in terms of the START of a great recording.

As long as the downmix isn't FUBAR'd, sure. I love going through the reels and hearing the original tracks before.

 

[Pepsi90919]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: Pepsi90919
you know, although vinyl is great, and i believe in an A-A-A recording chain if at all possible, it is possible to make a great-sounding CD.

/me is listening to supertramp's 'school' mastered by MFSL

No disagreement from me. A CD can sound fabulous if done right, a full digital chain can sound fabulous as well, if done right.

Rarely is it done right. It used to be done right with CD and now it's been fubarred.

The analog tape masters are really where it's at in terms of the START of a great recording. *GASP* I have to adjust my volume. Which brings me to another theory - this whole BS was brought on by the remote control volume. When I listen I set the volume and listen without touching it. There is no denying that louder is better, but compressed beyond all recognition isn't.

<---cues up Tom Petty's box set.

that's all true... in fact, back in the late 70s and early 80s when digital recording was in its infancy is when digital recording sounded best. kind of a paradox, no? still, i do prefer an analog source, mastered transparently (that means flat everything).

 

[biggestmuff]

Pop music and big radio hit CDs today are mastered with the intention that the user will be listening to them after converting it to an mp3.

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: Pepsi90919
that's all true... in fact, back in the late 70s and early 80s when digital recording was in its infancy is when digital recording sounded best. kind of a paradox, no? still, i do prefer an analog source, mastered transparently (that means flat everything).

Funny story that got me into Audio.

At 1985 I got my first "real" stereo along with a turntable as a teenager. I was hooked.
At 1988 I bought my first component system with an amp, a CD player and some speakers.

Mom got me a telarc (sp?) recording on CD of classical music. I wondered why I had to turn the volume knob to 11 o'clock to listen to the recording.......

And so it began.

 

[Pepsi90919]

Originally posted by: biggestmuff
Pop music and big radio hit CDs today are mastered with the intention that the user will be listening to them after converting it to an mp3.

true, but i would go even farther as to say that the armchair recording engineers are scoring themselves a copy of pro tools and calling themselves professionals. if i can discern a difference between the recording method, it makes it less enjoyable to me.

 

[Pepsi90919]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: Pepsi90919
that's all true... in fact, back in the late 70s and early 80s when digital recording was in its infancy is when digital recording sounded best. kind of a paradox, no? still, i do prefer an analog source, mastered transparently (that means flat everything).

Funny story that got me into Audio.

At 1985 I got my first "real" stereo along with a turntable as a teenager. I was hooked.
At 1988 I bought my first component system with an amp, a CD player and some speakers.

Mom got me a telarc (sp?) recording on CD of classical music. I wondered why I had to turn the volume knob to 11 o'clock to listen to the recording.......

And so it began.

you know if it's quiet then it's gonna be good ...

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: Pepsi90919

Originally posted by: biggestmuff
Pop music and big radio hit CDs today are mastered with the intention that the user will be listening to them after converting it to an mp3.

true, but i would go even farther as to say that the armchair recording engineers are scoring themselves a copy of pro tools and calling themselves professionals. if i can discern a difference between the recording method, it makes it less enjoyable to me.

In all honesty I work with a guy whose son (in college for music) that is becoming the highest level cert with pro-tools.

I will now schedule a call with him just to see what is going on and what is tought. Thanks for the reminder. My 4th occupation would have been a recording engineer.

-edit-
If you want to be in on the call Pepsi, PM me.

 

[Pepsi90919]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: Pepsi90919

Originally posted by: biggestmuff
Pop music and big radio hit CDs today are mastered with the intention that the user will be listening to them after converting it to an mp3.

true, but i would go even farther as to say that the armchair recording engineers are scoring themselves a copy of pro tools and calling themselves professionals. if i can discern a difference between the recording method, it makes it less enjoyable to me.

In all honesty I work with a guy whose son (in college for music) that is becoming the highest level cert with pro-tools.

I will now schedule a call with him just to see what is going on and what is tought. Thanks for the reminder. My 4th occupation would have been a recording engineer.

-edit-
If you want to be in on the call Pepsi, PM me.

that's cool. I've also looked into becoming a recording engineer, even took a tour in a recording college, but can't come up with the $.

 

[mithrandir2001]

It would be nice if the actual reason why CD sales are steadily dropping off is because people are sick of buying ******-mastered discs. I won't buy them and since so many popular albums are now mastered with too much compression and audible clipping I don't exactly buy much anymore. Screw you for the 624th time, RIAA! A total travesty.

 

[nakedfrog]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: Pepsi90919

Originally posted by: biggestmuff
Pop music and big radio hit CDs today are mastered with the intention that the user will be listening to them after converting it to an mp3.

true, but i would go even farther as to say that the armchair recording engineers are scoring themselves a copy of pro tools and calling themselves professionals. if i can discern a difference between the recording method, it makes it less enjoyable to me.

In all honesty I work with a guy whose son (in college for music) that is becoming the highest level cert with pro-tools.

I will now schedule a call with him just to see what is going on and what is tought. Thanks for the reminder. My 4th occupation would have been a recording engineer.

-edit-
If you want to be in on the call Pepsi, PM me.

Hey, would you help a brother out when the time comes that my band is actually laying down tracks worth keeping?

 

[Pepsi90919]

Originally posted by: nakedfrog

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: Pepsi90919

Originally posted by: biggestmuff
Pop music and big radio hit CDs today are mastered with the intention that the user will be listening to them after converting it to an mp3.

true, but i would go even farther as to say that the armchair recording engineers are scoring themselves a copy of pro tools and calling themselves professionals. if i can discern a difference between the recording method, it makes it less enjoyable to me.

In all honesty I work with a guy whose son (in college for music) that is becoming the highest level cert with pro-tools.

I will now schedule a call with him just to see what is going on and what is tought. Thanks for the reminder. My 4th occupation would have been a recording engineer.

-edit-
If you want to be in on the call Pepsi, PM me.

Hey, would you help a brother out when the time comes that my band is actually laying down tracks worth keeping?

the school i checked out actually did recordings for free, it was considered part of the curriculum for students.

 

[SoundTheSurrender]

You guys probably listen to ****** music.

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: SoundTheSurrender
You guys probably listen to ****** music.

This is a discussion regarding CD mastering and the horrid things done.

Please post some really good recordings so that others can "hear the light".

 

[Rubycon]

Originally posted by: SoundTheSurrender
You guys probably listen to ****** music.

The new Rush album is not ******.

BUT it's compressed like ******.

EDIT: But at least it's not distorted. There's one track where there's some distortion momentarily, but I really wish they did not castrate the life out of this. I need to phone someone.

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: Rubycon

Originally posted by: SoundTheSurrender
You guys probably listen to ****** music.

The new Rush album is not ******.

BUT it's compressed like ******.

EDIT: But at least it's not distorted. There's one track where there's some distortion momentarily, but I really wish they did not castrate the life out of this. I need to phone someone.

Is it really that bad? I don't have it. Is it on SACD/DVDA/VINYL?

Get on the horn.

 

[biggestmuff]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: SoundTheSurrender
You guys probably listen to ****** music.

This is a discussion regarding CD mastering and the horrid things done.

Please post some really good recordings so that others can "hear the light".

Hey, spidey, don't jump on him. He's corrected. The majority of this terribly mastered discs are of pop music and radio friendly bands. There are plenty of discs mastered in the past few years that have been mastered well.

There is more to an album than just how the disc is mastered. If a instrument is recorded poorly then mixing and mastering aren't going to help it any; sh1t in, sh1t out.

 

[biggestmuff]

Originally posted by: Rubycon

Originally posted by: SoundTheSurrender
You guys probably listen to ****** music.

The new Rush album is not ******.

BUT it's compressed like ******.

EDIT: But at least it's not distorted. There's one track where there's some distortion momentarily, but I really wish they did not castrate the life out of this. I need to phone someone.

As I said earlier, discs are mastered today with the intent that the end user will be converting the music to MP3.

When music is mixed and mastered, multitudes of version are made and then compared. Not only in 44.1 kHz/16 bit PCM, but also in various MP3 bitrates. If the bass sounds good in all mixes, but it isn't quite cutting through in a 128kb/s MP3, a small tweak is made and another version is cut.

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: biggestmuff
Hey, spidey, don't jump on him. He's corrected. The majority of this terribly mastered discs are of pop music and radio friendly bands. There are plenty of discs mastered in the past few years that have been mastered well.

There is more to an album than just how the disc is mastered. If a instrument is recorded poorly then mixing and mastering aren't going to help it any; sh1t in, sh1t out.

I know.
But when such incredible bands (not pop) suffer the same affect, it's aggrivating.

I guess I just wish the up and comers would realize that when you RECORD the channels you had better get it right.

It's really funny actually, look at some of Dr. Dre's early recordings. Not too shabby if you ask me.

 

[AlienCraft]

Originally posted by: Pepsi90919
[
that's all true... in fact, back in the late 70s and early 80s when digital recording was in its infancy is when digital recording sounded best. kind of a paradox, no? still, i do prefer an analog source, mastered transparently (that means flat everything).

AAACK, THere is no way that is true, else the industry would still be using them.
Todays digital decks sound far better than the old PCM boat anchors.... and still the end user listens to it through the aural equivalent of a tin can
Too bad they all can't sound like an old AMPEX 1/2in analog 2trk.


But there's no way my collection is fitting into anything smaller than a 40 foot container if I have to convert to reels of tape, so again fidelity is sacrificed in the name of market penetration. It is really cool to carry around a hundred CDs in the size of a pack of cigarettes.
As for "Mastering", I don't care what two people do behind closed doors, until they start messing around with my recordings. Then, I wanna watch. :Q
Rare is the project that goes down "flat".
The hardest thing to overcome is the mastering engineer's EQ .... not the Manly... the Ego Quotient. It is far more dangerous to a session than the dreaded LSD, not the drug... Lead Singers Disease....

 

[AlienCraft]

Originally posted by: Pepsi90919

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: Pepsi90919

Originally posted by: biggestmuff
Pop music and big radio hit CDs today are mastered with the intention that the user will be listening to them after converting it to an mp3.

true, but i would go even farther as to say that the armchair recording engineers are scoring themselves a copy of pro tools and calling themselves professionals. if i can discern a difference between the recording method, it makes it less enjoyable to me.

In all honesty I work with a guy whose son (in college for music) that is becoming the highest level cert with pro-tools.

I will now schedule a call with him just to see what is going on and what is tought. Thanks for the reminder. My 4th occupation would have been a recording engineer.

-edit-
If you want to be in on the call Pepsi, PM me.

that's cool. I've also looked into becoming a recording engineer, even took a tour in a recording college, but can't come up with the $.

Nowadays, it takes far less, equipment wise, to learn than it did when I was learning it.
The same basic requirement is the drive to record ..... (fill in the blank).

 

[Rubycon]

Originally posted by: AlienCraft

Todays digital decks sound far better than the old PCM boat anchors.

Convert! Convert! Convert!

 

[AlienCraft]

Originally posted by: Rubycon

Originally posted by: AlienCraft

Todays digital decks sound far better than the old PCM boat anchors.

Convert! Convert! Convert!

Ahh geeezuz, If I have to connect another blankety blank blank piece of gear just to squeeze so crappy song out of one of the holes , I'm gonna scream.

< grumpy old school rock and roll engineer aka "don't bore us get to the chorus"....

 

[AlienCraft]

Originally posted by: Jinny
Leave the preamp switch alone!!! its ruining the dynamics
Older versions of the same song I have in my collection sound so much better.
I dont even have an expensive stereo.


update: my properly mastered songs on good quality metal CASSETTE TAPES sound better.

sigh
end rant.

When I was working in the duplication side, we had made some incredible sounding cassettes, even with high speed duping.
I have a feeling there isn't so much demand for tape pancakes anymore, thus not so good of a formulation to work with.