New Zealand has outlawed trolling.

[GeekDrew]

Well it seems rather matter of fact. If you cross a certain line, you are no longer trolling - you are harassing.

Not sure how that can be made any more clear. There isn't a need to speak for anyone. Harassment has existed forever. The art of trolling has sort of existed forever, and is more prevalent now in the digital age. People have done certain things simply to elicit a particular response, usually in jest but with the intent to draw ire from the subject.

The clear difference is whether it is abusive or not. Harassment is abusive. Trolling for the sake of trolling is not something I've witnessed to be abusive, unless it is clearly intended to actually become harassment. If people call that trolling, that's on them, but harassment is harassment is harassment.

Your argument assumes that most forms of trolling are not forms of harassment; that's where we disagree. I believe that most (>=90% ?) of trolling (over IP or not) to be harassment and abusive - nearly anything done with intent to cause anger, sadness, or depression. Trolling isn't so much an "art" but a somewhat socially accepted mechanism for individuals to harass other individuals and get away with it.

 

[pcgeek11]

I can't imagine how much more intense teasing has gotten since the advent of online social networks, particularly in kids/teens. I think its a good law - until now there are hardly any consequences, especially if a kid hurts or kills themselves.

Oh BS! You should have grown up in my area. We were brutal on each other, but then again we weren't weak minded pussies like so many today.

 

[pcgeek11]

May I be the first to call you old?

Things are different for kids now a days, especially since they seem to take social networking so seriously.

You are very far from the first...

I agree. Seriously weak minded and emotionally. I guess I really do not get it. The kids I grew up with we were very brutal in teasing and bullying each other. In some cases physically. It was just a thing, we all did it and no one was overly emotionally distressed or injured themselves over it. It is to the point where I think there is something wrong with kids today that they cannot accept life in general.

 

[pcgeek11]

Well it seems rather matter of fact. If you cross a certain line, you are no longer trolling - you are harassing.

Not sure how that can be made any more clear. There isn't a need to speak for anyone. Harassment has existed forever. The art of trolling has sort of existed forever, and is more prevalent now in the digital age. People have done certain things simply to elicit a particular response, usually in jest but with the intent to draw ire from the subject.

The clear difference is whether it is abusive or not. Harassment is abusive. Trolling for the sake of trolling is not something I've witnessed to be abusive, unless it is clearly intended to actually become harassment. If people call that trolling, that's on them, but harassment is harassment is harassment.

But where is this " Certain Line " it is too vague.

 

[destrekor]

Your argument assumes that most forms of trolling are not forms of harassment; that's where we disagree. I believe that most (>=90% ?) of trolling (over IP or not) to be harassment and abusive - nearly anything done with intent to cause anger, sadness, or depression. Trolling isn't so much an "art" but a somewhat socially accepted mechanism for individuals to harass other individuals and get away with it.

The thing is, you are taking most of the trolling to be abusive harassment, but I wouldn't consider it that. Innocent? No. But abusive harassment? Hardly, not for the majority.

I think you are including too much into the trolling category instead of painting it clearly in the harassment category.

Maybe these are all simply needless distinctions, but considering trolling is somewhat of a new thing and harassment has existed forever, I don't think we need to now relabel what has always been harassment. It may be pedantic, but... that's what proper language is. I'm also one to get annoyed with the use of 4K as opposed to UHD when 2K wasn't used for FullHD/1080p, and 2K/4K are actually entirely different and not in fact found in any consumer display. But, I digress.

But where is this " Certain Line " it is too vague.

Well, think about it - whether you are harassing someone or not is rather vague. Everyone has their boundaries, and everyone takes in in different ways.

There is no clear line between devilish fun and harassment. But there exists two vague sides for sure.

 

[zinfamous]

You are very far from the first...

I agree. Seriously weak minded and emotionally. I guess I really do not get it. The kids I grew up with we were very brutal in teasing and bullying each other. In some cases physically. It was just a thing, we all did it and no one was overly emotionally distressed or injured themselves over it. It is to the point where I think there is something wrong with kids today that they cannot accept life in general.

It's very different when you can talk shit to and beat up on each other then work it out later.

The internet and anonymity doesn't offer that release. It's just hate and nothing else. Plus, information spreads faster and everywhere; so rumors are no longer vague whisperings outside your tight group.

Just move on from this--the world you grew up in simply doesn't exist anymore.

 

[pcgeek11]

It's very different when you can talk shit to and beat up on each other then work it out later.

The internet and anonymity doesn't offer that release. It's just hate and nothing else. Plus, information spreads faster and everywhere; so rumors are no longer vague whisperings outside your tight group.

Just move on from this--the world you grew up in simply doesn't exist anymore.

I know. It is a sad day. IMO.

 

[dave_the_nerd]

If you get seriously emotionally distressed by someone on the interweb... You have issues already.

The law is stupid IMO. I thought the UK was screwed up...

If this law causes you emotional distress, your issues are bigger.

 

[pcgeek11]

If this law causes you emotional distress, your issues are bigger.

I don't live in New Zealand. No emotional distress for me. I just think it is idiotic and unenforceable.

 

[StinkyPinky]

Seriously, did no one actually read my post? "Ban on trolling"....come on. It's making harassment illegal, as in telling people to go kill themselves etc and then those people carrying out on that. You can go and call people assholes to your hearts delight. Typical knee jerk reaction from certain people in here.

Take a look at the US incarceration rate if you want to see a govt that likes locking up their citizens.

 

[StinkyPinky]

But where is this " Certain Line " it is too vague.

It's not vague at all. The line is when someone does harm to themselves because of repeated harassment. Again, the law makes no distinction between real world harassment and internet harassment.

If you keep posting someone letters in the mail saying "kill yourself, you suck, and no one loves you and I laughed when your mom died" and then that person killed themselves...well, that's an avenue for the police to press charges. It makes perfect sense to make the digital equivalent also illegal. It certainly makes more sense for this to be illegal than locking up people for selling plants or jailing a 18 year old for having sex with a 17 year old, which a certain other nation does.

 

[disappoint]

I know a few sites that would have to shut down if trolling was against the law..

You can't /b/ serious.

 

[Pottuvoi]

If you intentionally cause serious emotional distress to someone on the interweb... You have issues already.

Fixed it for you.

Really hope the law would only be used for such cases though, this could get bad as well.

 

[pcgeek11]

Fixed it for you.

Really hope the law would only be used for such cases though, this could get bad as well.

If you get stressed by something someone says then you are mentally weak. The law is too broad and will only be abused...

 

[Moonbeam]

If you get seriously emotionally distressed by someone on the interweb... You have issues already.

The law is stupid IMO. I thought the UK was screwed up...

Um, I think the idea is that people actually do have such issues and that if you ignore that fact and cause somebody like that to kill themselves they are going to come after you.
.

 

[WelshBloke]

You are very far from the first...

I agree. Seriously weak minded and emotionally. I guess I really do not get it. The kids I grew up with we were very brutal in teasing and bullying each other. In some cases physically. It was just a thing, we all did it and no one was overly emotionally distressed or injured themselves over it. It is to the point where I think there is something wrong with kids today that they cannot accept life in general.

Wait, you think there's something wrong with them because you think brutal physical bullying is normal and acceptable and they disagree.

I'd say that it was something wrong with you there. Would you accept behaviour like that to you now? If a group of people kicked your arse everyday you'd just shrug and think of it as normal?

 

[BoberFett]

Moonbeam makes me cry when he tells me I have a brain defect. He needs to go to jail.

I'm serious, I might hurt myself if Moonbeam is allowed to continue posting. He needs to go to FPMITAP.

 

[zinfamous]

If you get stressed by something someone says then you are mentally weak. The law is too broad and will only be abused...

Think about this for a second:

What is the difference between shooting someone or stabbing them to death, and tormenting them mentally with the expressed goal that they kill themselves?

I don't see how it is different, as the end goal is the same. "But I was just joking! I didn't know they would actually do it!" Oh, so it was an accident? Well, tough titties, Cletus, people get sent up-state all the time for "accidental murder."

Actions have consequences, right? I thought this was the conservative battle cry.

 

[Scarpozzi]

i'm still safe so far

You're never safe from the all seeing Eye of Sauron....which happens to reside in New Zealand.

(though Vladimir had one too for a while: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/entertainment/news/article.cfm?c_id=1501119&objectid=11371162 )

 

[poofyhairguy]

Your argument assumes that most forms of trolling are not forms of harassment; that's where we disagree. I believe that most (>=90% ?) of trolling (over IP or not) to be harassment and abusive - nearly anything done with intent to cause anger, sadness, or depression. Trolling isn't so much an "art" but a somewhat socially accepted mechanism for individuals to harass other individuals and get away with it.

I think the difference is intent.

Harassment is personal. Harassment is I don't like YOU so I am going to go after YOU and send death threats or whatever.

Trolling isn't personal, it is often subject based. You don't troll a single person, you troll a group of people with the same characteristic. I maybe don't mind you, but I dislike the group you mentally associate with. Or at the very least I think your group is overly sensitive about some issue to a level I think is ridiculous and I plan to express my opinion by engaging on that issue.

Do people take trolling personal? Yes, because their personal identity is tied so strongly to the group that they see it as a personal attack. But it is not.

Does trolling lead to harassment? It can, especially if the person being trolled doesn't handle it well (aka responds with personal attacks).

Does that mean we should ban trolling?

I personally think not. To me trolling is the other side of the pendulum from the PC movement. Just as there is a large group of people who care about disenfranchisement and micro aggressions there is a growing group that dislikes how being PC takes the edge out of life. The world isn't fair, or nice, or friendly, and to pretend otherwise only in public places (like social media) is eventually going to run afoul of people we refuse to lie to themselves like that. The more those who back the PC movement try to find yet another group that is offended, the more those who previously benefitted from the status quo will act out on the internet.

The troll phenomenon didn't start with the internet. There have been examples of people trolling in personal ads in the pre-internet era. What did start with the internet was a way for people who belong to thin skinned groups to organize and push back.

 

[Rakehellion]

Fuck New Zealand.

Agreed.

 

[TheSlamma]

i'm still safe so far

No American Psycho anymore?

Lame

 

[Rakehellion]

May I be the first to call you old?

Things are different for kids now a days, especially since they seem to take social networking so seriously.

It's a stupid law. Offline trolling shouldn't be a criminal offense either.

 

[pcgeek11]

Wait, you think there's something wrong with them because you think brutal physical bullying is normal and acceptable and they disagree.

I'd say that it was something wrong with you there. Would you accept behaviour like that to you now? If a group of people kicked your arse everyday you'd just shrug and think of it as normal?

That is physical abuse quite a bit different from verbal BS on the internet. Words do nothing. Yes I think there is something wrong that they allow words to drive them to extreme measures such as suicide...

 

[pcgeek11]

Think about this for a second:

What is the difference between shooting someone or stabbing them to death, and tormenting them mentally with the expressed goal that they kill themselves?

I don't see how it is different, as the end goal is the same. "But I was just joking! I didn't know they would actually do it!" Oh, so it was an accident? Well, tough titties, Cletus, people get sent up-state all the time for "accidental murder."

Actions have consequences, right? I thought this was the conservative battle cry.

Oh, but the law is much broader than just that... No such thing as an accidental murder BTW.

Murder = the unlawful premeditated killing of one human being by another.