New Yorker arrested for broadcasting Hizbollah TV

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: slsmnaz
Here are quotes from the same story:

U.S. authorities have arrested a New York man for locally broadcasting Hizbollah television al-Manar, which the U.S. Treasury Department has branded a terrorist entity.

The U.S. Treasury Department froze the U.S. assets of al-Manar in March, saying it supported fund-raising and recruitment activities of Hizbollah, a Shiite Muslim group backed by Syria and Iran.

Same question -- Where in your quotes, or anywhere else in the article, does it say that the accused man, Javed Iqbal, was financially involved with al-Manar or Hizbollah or that he was broadcasting any programming that could be construed as inciteful to any crime or actions calculated to incite any attack on the U.S. government or its citizens?

All it says is, al-minar supported fund-raising and recruitment activities of Hizbollah. It does NOT say the accused was part of al-Manar or Hizbollah or that he did anything other than provide the source material from al-minar to his subscribers or that the program material, itself, would fall under any legal constraints.

So far, all you've shown is some possible guilt by association. That's enough for the Feds to be suspicious, but where's the crime? :roll:

 

[LunarRay]

I think the 'Free Speech' issue is not what the 'charged' entity is 'charged' with.. There can be no violation of law to broadcast most anything... Even David Duke could and did run for Congress.. it is the doing business with an 'outlawed' entity. The Government has to show that that occurred. The TV thingi is the 'proof' that some sort of business dealings did occur..

 

[slsmnaz]

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: slsmnaz
Here are quotes from the same story:

U.S. authorities have arrested a New York man for locally broadcasting Hizbollah television al-Manar, which the U.S. Treasury Department has branded a terrorist entity.

The U.S. Treasury Department froze the U.S. assets of al-Manar in March, saying it supported fund-raising and recruitment activities of Hizbollah, a Shiite Muslim group backed by Syria and Iran.

Same question -- Where in your quotes, or anywhere else in the article, does it say that the accused man, Javed Iqbal, was financially involved with al-Manar or Hizbollah or that he was broadcasting any programming that could be construed as inciteful to any crime or actions calculated to incite any attack on the U.S. government or its citizens?

All it says is, al-minar supported fund-raising and recruitment activities of Hizbollah. It does NOT say the accused was part of al-Manar or Hizbollah or that he did anything other than provide the source material from al-minar to his subscribers or that the program material, itself, would fall under any legal constraints.

So far, all you've shown is some possible guilt by association. That's enough for the Feds to be suspicious, but where's the crime? :roll:

The link is what got him arrested! He still gets his day in court so it will all come out. He has not been convicted and the link will need to be made or he walks. He was not arrested because of what the broadcast said but was arrested because of the link to a terrorist group. Does this really confuse you?

 

[Aimster]

you cannot go around displaying hezbollah symbols or their propaganda t.v show.

they are a terrorist organization.

KKK is an organization with a belief not mission. They are not going around killing people.

 

[slsmnaz]

Originally posted by: Aimster
you cannot go around displaying hezbollah symbols or their propaganda t.v show.

they are a terrorist organization.

KKK is an organization with a belief not mission. They are not going around killing people.

Actually, you could wear Hez symbols and you could create a show where you talk about their goals. That would not be illegal. What's illegal is to have yourself tied to the group's funding.

And the KKK does have a mission (white race) and has gone around killing many people. Their speech is protected as it should be.

 

[marvdmartian]

Hey, maybe the MPAA has the copyrights on the Hizbollah tv, and made a copyright complaint against this guy??

 

[Aimster]

Originally posted by: slsmnaz

Originally posted by: Aimster
you cannot go around displaying hezbollah symbols or their propaganda t.v show.

they are a terrorist organization.

KKK is an organization with a belief not mission. They are not going around killing people.

Actually, you could wear Hez symbols and you could create a show where you talk about their goals. That would not be illegal. What's illegal is to have yourself tied to the group's funding.

And the KKK does have a mission (white race) and has gone around killing many people. Their speech is protected as it should be.

Its not illegal. but in Bush's U.S if a person did that they would more than likely be taken in for questioning which would last 8+ hours. Hell they might even be arrested (read sentence after this paragraph).Their phone calls would be tapped and they would be followed every single place they went. If they weren't citizens then great chance they would either get deported or they wont get renewed to stay in this country. Europe is already doing this by kicking out people who they feel are a threat based simply on their beliefs and messages that they talk about in Mosques.

Just like those guys who were arrested for buying all those cell phones. This country has changed. Freedom of speech is dying.. at least for people of M.E decent.

The KKK used to kill people, but not anymore. They are just a bunch of rednecks who like to wear masks. I'm assuming the KKK doesn't go around killing people based on me not hearing about it in the news (im sure it would make headlines).

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: slsmnaz
The link is what got him arrested! He still gets his day in court so it will all come out. He has not been convicted and the link will need to be made or he walks. He was not arrested because of what the broadcast said but was arrested because of the link to a terrorist group. Does this really confuse you?

What link? The article doesn't say, and neither have you. Some undefined "link" could be a good reason to watch him, but it's not a crime without some overt act that violates the law.

Does this really confuse you? :roll:

 

[slsmnaz]

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: slsmnaz
The link is what got him arrested! He still gets his day in court so it will all come out. He has not been convicted and the link will need to be made or he walks. He was not arrested because of what the broadcast said but was arrested because of the link to a terrorist group. Does this really confuse you?

What link? The article doesn't say, and neither have you. Some undefined "link" could be a good reason to watch him, but it's not a crime without some overt act that violates the law.

Does this really confuse you? :roll:

He was broadcasting terrorist propaganda and charging people for it. The question is whether it was on his own or if he was linked to the outlawed group. I am pretty sure there would be a connection made before an arrest that would be this high-profile. You have based all this on one article that never mentions the 1st amendment (except for his lawyer) but does mention there is a suspected money trail. And you are acting like he's convicted, not just arrested. He'll have his day.

 

[dahunan]

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: slsmnaz
The link is what got him arrested! He still gets his day in court so it will all come out. He has not been convicted and the link will need to be made or he walks. He was not arrested because of what the broadcast said but was arrested because of the link to a terrorist group. Does this really confuse you?

What link? The article doesn't say, and neither have you. Some undefined "link" could be a good reason to watch him, but it's not a crime without some overt act that violates the law.

Does this really confuse you? :roll:

Geez.. how hard is it for you to see that it is a form of funding for the terrorist group.. All rights for that terrorist tv network belong to the terrorists and anyone who broadcasts it will have to PAY money to the terrorist tv provider.

 

[mordantmonkey]

So if this channel were web cast by a foreign entity, it would be completely legal right? what if i were to capture that footage and make it available to others on the internet? while i gave no money to Al-manar i'm guessing a prosecutor could construe it as material support because i was using my bandwidth to distribute the message fo a terrorist organization?
If the feed was provided free of charge, meaning that no money was paid to al-manar, then he wouldn't have been arrested or would he?

 

[dahunan]

Originally posted by: mordantmonkey
So if this channel were web cast by a foreign entity, it would be completely legal right? what if i were to capture that footage and make it available to others on the internet? while i gave no money to Al-manar i'm guessing a prosecutor could construe it as material support because i was using my bandwidth to distribute the message fo a terrorist organization?
If the feed was provided free of charge, meaning that no money was paid to al-manar, then he wouldn't have been arrested or would he?

Did you steal the footage meaning did you pay for it and then choose to air it here?

I wonder if any of their messages/programming has to do with "killing the infidels" or any type of killing?

If bin laden owned a network and broadcast terrorist training videos over the networks should it be allowed to broadcast here under or freedom of speech laws?

Should our freedom of speech extend to media that was not created by americans in america?

 

[mordantmonkey]

Originally posted by: dahunan

Originally posted by: mordantmonkey
So if this channel were web cast by a foreign entity, it would be completely legal right? what if i were to capture that footage and make it available to others on the internet? while i gave no money to Al-manar i'm guessing a prosecutor could construe it as material support because i was using my bandwidth to distribute the message fo a terrorist organization?
If the feed was provided free of charge, meaning that no money was paid to al-manar, then he wouldn't have been arrested or would he?

Did you steal the footage meaning did you pay for it and then choose to air it here?

I wonder if any of their messages/programming has to do with "killing the infidels" or any type of killing?

If bin laden owned a network and broadcast terrorist training videos over the networks should it be allowed to broadcast here under or freedom of speech laws?

Should our freedom of speech extend to media that was not created by americans in america?

guess wikipedia is getting away with it. probably due to it being "educational" but where does one draw that line?

i'm contending that the guy was arrested because of financial exchanges, not content. but then in this age and this government, who knows? at least he's a citizen so we'll know the charge eventually.

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: slsmnaz
He was broadcasting terrorist propaganda...

How do you know that? The article doesn't say anything about the content of what he was broadcasting. Do you have some special knowledge of the actual charges filed against the guy?

Honest -- I'm no defender of Hizbollah, but I'll stand up for the First Amendment as long as we still have it before the Bushwhackos completely eviscerate it.

The question is whether it was on his own or if he was linked to the outlawed group. I am pretty sure there would be a connection made before an arrest that would be this high-profile.

Connections are not a crime. Acts that violate the law are. Whatever you're "pretty sure" of, you still haven't given us anything that shows the guy committed any crime. I'm damned sure Bush and his henchman have committed treason and otherwise shredded the Constitution, and I'd love to see them prosecuted for it, but unfortunately I'll have to wait until November when MAYBEM we can get a Democratic majority in Congress with subpoena power to get the documentation to prove it.

You have based all this on one article that never mentions the 1st amendment (except for his lawyer) but does mention there is a suspected money trail. And you are acting like he's convicted, not just arrested. He'll have his day.

You've based everything you've said on the same single article that never mentions the acts he committed that are the reason why he was arrested. If they don't exist, his arrest, itself, is a violation of his Constitutional rights.

If he's an enemy, I hope they hang whatever charges they can prove on him. If he's not, put yourself in his shoes when the jackbooted thugs come knocking at your door for whatever reason they "suspect" you of some heinous crime. :|

 

[5150Joker]

Originally posted by: Wheezer

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: DanceMan
LINK

I didn't see this posted yet, so sorry if it a repost.

Summary: A guy gets arrested for locally broadcasting Hizbolla TV in NYC, and the US Government labels that as a terrorist activity.

I'm leaning on the side of this is a free speech issue. However, we do draw lines as to what can and can not be broadcast.

Thoughts?

I'm not surprised. Also not surprised the Media has been silence on it.

Welcome to the American version of China

Well, at that rate why not let the KKK and the Aryan Nation brodcast thier own programs also?

What they say is protected under the freedom of speech also is it not?

Yes they are protected under free speech and they have every right to have their own programs. With that said, it's ridiculous to compare Hezbollah to the KKK unless you have a small narrow mind.

 

[Jaskalas]

Originally posted by: DanceMan
LINK

I didn't see this posted yet, so sorry if it a repost.

Summary: A guy gets arrested for locally broadcasting Hizbolla TV in NYC, and the US Government labels that as a terrorist activity.

I'm leaning on the side of this is a free speech issue. However, we do draw lines as to what can and can not be broadcast.

Thoughts?

My thoughts are militant organizations which have declared war against us should be banished. There is no room to allow a hostile enemy operations.

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: Jaskalas
My thoughts are militant organizations which have declared war against us should be banished. There is no room to allow a hostile enemy operations.

The problem is, for your kind of "thinking" to work, you'd have to be able to trust who and whatever "the government" happens to be. If they're a malevolent criminal gang like the Bushwhackos, they could name anyone as a militant "enemy" or a "terrorist" as justification for whatever they want to do to silence them.

If that's the best you can think, please go home and practice.

Better yet, go home and read the Constitution. It's the reason we are the nation we are, today, and we're on the verge of losing all of it to our criminal administration. :|

 

[Aimster]

I walked into a store that had Hezbollah bumper stickers.
I made a thread about it but the mods locked it. :-(

& once I saw a car that had "I love Allah" "Islam is the true religion" stuff all over the car. This was like a few months after 9/11.

WTF are people thinking? Freedom of speech, yes. However this is post-9/11!! Common sense people. Are certian people looking for the big dogs to come down on them? You simply cannot do that kind of stuff anymore.

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: Aimster
I walked into a store that had Hezbollah bumper stickers.
I made a thread about it but the mods locked it. :-(

& once I saw a car that had "I love Allah" "Islam is the true religion" stuff all over the car. This was like a few months after 9/11.

WTF are people thinking? Freedom of speech, yes. However this is post-9/11!! Common sense people. Are certian people looking for the big dogs to come down on them? You simply cannot do that kind of stuff anymore.

How is that any different than the crap Christians slap on their cars? Ooh, Islam is evil, you are clearly a bad person if you believe in a different religion than me. What the fvck is wrong with you?

 

[imported_michaelpatrick33]

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: Aimster
I walked into a store that had Hezbollah bumper stickers.
I made a thread about it but the mods locked it. :-(

& once I saw a car that had "I love Allah" "Islam is the true religion" stuff all over the car. This was like a few months after 9/11.

WTF are people thinking? Freedom of speech, yes. However this is post-9/11!! Common sense people. Are certian people looking for the big dogs to come down on them? You simply cannot do that kind of stuff anymore.

How is that any different than the crap Christians slap on their cars? Ooh, Islam is evil, you are clearly a bad person if you believe in a different religion than me. What the fvck is wrong with you?

I am still puzzled by why 911 has created this massive hysteria that seems far greater than World War II in this nation. The terrorists are going to strike so we will take your freedoms away. What happened to standing up and saying to the terrorists, "We will not change our way of life by your actions! We are Americans and we are FREE! We will hunt you down and do what is necessary but we will not have secret prisons or wiretap our own citizens without warrants or hold foreign nationals without due process. We will honor our Constitiution and international law and we will build bridges to the moderates in every nation and we will not support dictators and monarchies that oppose freedom (Saudi Arabia)." Your actions only reaffirm your way is dying out as Freedom's bell is ringing louder.

We are Americans and we will not cower behind increaingly draconian fear mongering color codes and silently let you win as our rights are curtailed."

Sigh

 

[LumbergTech]

Originally posted by: michaelpatrick33

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: Aimster
I walked into a store that had Hezbollah bumper stickers.
I made a thread about it but the mods locked it. :-(

& once I saw a car that had "I love Allah" "Islam is the true religion" stuff all over the car. This was like a few months after 9/11.

WTF are people thinking? Freedom of speech, yes. However this is post-9/11!! Common sense people. Are certian people looking for the big dogs to come down on them? You simply cannot do that kind of stuff anymore.

How is that any different than the crap Christians slap on their cars? Ooh, Islam is evil, you are clearly a bad person if you believe in a different religion than me. What the fvck is wrong with you?

I am still puzzled by why 911 has created this massive hysteria that seems far greater than World War II in this nation. The terrorists are going to strike so we will take your freedoms away. What happened to standing up and saying to the terrorists, "We will not change our way of life by your actions! We are Americans and we are FREE! We will hunt you down and do what is necessary but we will not have secret prisons or wiretap our own citizens without warrants or hold foreign nationals without due process. We will honor our Constitiution and international law and we will build bridges to the moderates in every nation and we will not support dictators and monarchies that oppose freedom (Saudi Arabia)." Your actions only reaffirm your way is dying out as Freedom's bell is ringing louder.

We are Americans and we will not cower behind increaingly draconian fear mongering color codes and silently let you win as our rights are curtailed."

Sigh

exactly

 

[imported_Tango]

Originally posted by: LumbergTech

Originally posted by: michaelpatrick33

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: Aimster
I walked into a store that had Hezbollah bumper stickers.
I made a thread about it but the mods locked it. :-(

& once I saw a car that had "I love Allah" "Islam is the true religion" stuff all over the car. This was like a few months after 9/11.

WTF are people thinking? Freedom of speech, yes. However this is post-9/11!! Common sense people. Are certian people looking for the big dogs to come down on them? You simply cannot do that kind of stuff anymore.

How is that any different than the crap Christians slap on their cars? Ooh, Islam is evil, you are clearly a bad person if you believe in a different religion than me. What the fvck is wrong with you?

I am still puzzled by why 911 has created this massive hysteria that seems far greater than World War II in this nation. The terrorists are going to strike so we will take your freedoms away. What happened to standing up and saying to the terrorists, "We will not change our way of life by your actions! We are Americans and we are FREE! We will hunt you down and do what is necessary but we will not have secret prisons or wiretap our own citizens without warrants or hold foreign nationals without due process. We will honor our Constitiution and international law and we will build bridges to the moderates in every nation and we will not support dictators and monarchies that oppose freedom (Saudi Arabia)." Your actions only reaffirm your way is dying out as Freedom's bell is ringing louder.

We are Americans and we will not cower behind increaingly draconian fear mongering color codes and silently let you win as our rights are curtailed."

Sigh

exactly

It was easier to say before it actually happened. The US still has a young story and political tradition, and in these kind of things you can see it.

 

[Buck Armstrong]

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: DanceMan
LINK

I didn't see this posted yet, so sorry if it a repost.

Summary: A guy gets arrested for locally broadcasting Hizbolla TV in NYC, and the US Government labels that as a terrorist activity.

I'm leaning on the side of this is a free speech issue. However, we do draw lines as to what can and can not be broadcast.

Thoughts?

I'm not surprised. Also not surprised the Media has been silence on it.

Welcome to the American version of China

more proof of america trying to brainwash its public.

Look whos talking. Mr. Brainwashed himself.

 

[Pabster]

Originally posted by: Tango
Hezbollah is considered a terrorist organization only by 6 countries in the world, 2 of them considering a terror organization only their security branch and not the political party.

And therein lies the problem.

Anyone who DOESN'T consider Hezbollah a Terrorist Organization has some serious issues with reality.

 

[Pabster]

Originally posted by: Aimster
I walked into a store that had Hezbollah bumper stickers.
I made a thread about it but the mods locked it. :-(

& once I saw a car that had "I love Allah" "Islam is the true religion" stuff all over the car. This was like a few months after 9/11.

WTF are people thinking? Freedom of speech, yes. However this is post-9/11!! Common sense people. Are certian people looking for the big dogs to come down on them? You simply cannot do that kind of stuff anymore.

Well, there's a fine line to be drawn. It is between freedom of speech, and censorship.

I say let the guy broadcast his Hezbollah TV.

Just make sure the Feds are checking his ass real close. Particularly his immigration papers.