rcpratt
Lifer
- Jul 2, 2009
- 10,433
- 110
- 116
That's more than a day late, and what's wrong with posting correct information in a different thread?
Well the only interesting thing from a customer perspective is "Does it work or not" - it's not important if it is the loader software or the firmware itself.
And as far as I know Intel has not yet released a new version, right?
@bofeity: As taltamir said.. just ignore the issue till Intel releases a working firmware upgrade.
Nothing at all. It is a good idea to post correct information again in a different thread that way if it is missed in another.
Elcs
Diamond Member
- Apr 27, 2002
- 6,278
- 6
- 81
Theory:
1) Install Windows 7 on a fresh X25-M
2) Use as normal
3) When Intel fixes their issues and releases a TRIM firmware with a fixed installer, clone the X25-M, store on another drive and flash the firmware
4) When firmware is flashed, restore the clone to the X25-M
Would this work? I think I may have struck gold but with my luck, it'll be a dud idea.
Not using TRIM doesn't physically slow down the drive correct?
So if I use mine for awhile without TRIM it won't be physically slower once TRIM is enabled?
So if I use mine for awhile without TRIM it won't be physically slower once TRIM is enabled?
I just checked some info. It sounds like wiping and formatting will fix drive performance. The reason for the degration is because SSDs write in smaller blocks than can actually be deleted, so over time loose sectors add up.
i think it does, if it can be fixed by wiping the drive then it isnt permanent irreparable damage
To use a bad analogy, doing a TRIM is like defragging. It will clean up the drive to be in a more optimal state and it doesn't matter what the state of the drive was prior to the operation. Anand's article will give a more precise definition of TRIM.
Also, if the firmware update works correctly (as in no more bricking), no data loss occurs.
Also, if the firmware update works correctly (as in no more bricking), no data loss occurs.
jjmIII
Diamond Member
- Mar 13, 2001
- 8,399
- 1
- 81
This is what I planned to do if firmware updating is needed, but I hear you can't clone HDD to SSD ??? more here...
I have a 1t drive for important files. I don't care about formating even if it requires I do so.
Not using TRIM will not physically damage/permanently degrade the performance of the drive.
As the little thingies get written too, there is less space for the drive to move stuff to save more stuff (something to do with being able to write small amounts, but has to delete large amounts before it can write to the same space).
When a file is deleted, its not physically erased from the drive, but can be overwritten.
The drive only overwrites once the drive is full (incl. previoulsy 'deleted' files by the OS).
e.g. Your SSD has 80GB space, and you have 60GB written to it (and reported by 20GB free by OS).
You then delete 20GB of stuff from the recycle bin. This is then reported as 40GB free space by the OS, but in reality this data is still on the SSD.
You then write 20GB to your SSD, so now the SSD is 80GB full, but 20GB free space is reported by the OS.
Finally, you write another 10GB to the SSD. The SSD has to do some crazy things to delete the 10GB of files that have been marked as deletable by the OS, whilst trying to maintain the data that is not to be deleted.
Effectively, as the SSD fills up in space, it has less room to do these fancy deletions and it takes more time (something to do with how much it can delete at once vs how much it can write at once). This is why it slows down over time.
What TRIM does is physically delete the file when the OS deletes the file (ie you empty the Recycle Bin), thus the overall used space on the SSD remains as reported by the OS.
e.g.
You have 60GB of stuff, and you delete 20GB of stuff from the recycle bin. When you delete this 20GB the OS (Windows 7) sends a TRIM command to the SSD which then deletes this 20GB thus the free space on the SSD is now 40GB, the same as reported by the OS. It has all this space to do its fancy moving/deletion.
The same effect can be achieved through use of OZC's wiper tool or Intel's SSD Toolkit (so you can run it on non-Windows 7 OS's), but obviously the firmware needs to support it, and you need to schedule it, rather than it being automatic within Windows 7.
And also this means you can't recover the data once you delete it!
I can't really explain it as well as Anand - Anand's articles on SSDs does a lot better!
In short, once you run the SSD toolkit on your Intel SSD (once they sort out their problems), you will be able to maintain your drive's performance at out of box speeds (or close to it).
As the little thingies get written too, there is less space for the drive to move stuff to save more stuff (something to do with being able to write small amounts, but has to delete large amounts before it can write to the same space).
When a file is deleted, its not physically erased from the drive, but can be overwritten.
The drive only overwrites once the drive is full (incl. previoulsy 'deleted' files by the OS).
e.g. Your SSD has 80GB space, and you have 60GB written to it (and reported by 20GB free by OS).
You then delete 20GB of stuff from the recycle bin. This is then reported as 40GB free space by the OS, but in reality this data is still on the SSD.
You then write 20GB to your SSD, so now the SSD is 80GB full, but 20GB free space is reported by the OS.
Finally, you write another 10GB to the SSD. The SSD has to do some crazy things to delete the 10GB of files that have been marked as deletable by the OS, whilst trying to maintain the data that is not to be deleted.
Effectively, as the SSD fills up in space, it has less room to do these fancy deletions and it takes more time (something to do with how much it can delete at once vs how much it can write at once). This is why it slows down over time.
What TRIM does is physically delete the file when the OS deletes the file (ie you empty the Recycle Bin), thus the overall used space on the SSD remains as reported by the OS.
e.g.
You have 60GB of stuff, and you delete 20GB of stuff from the recycle bin. When you delete this 20GB the OS (Windows 7) sends a TRIM command to the SSD which then deletes this 20GB thus the free space on the SSD is now 40GB, the same as reported by the OS. It has all this space to do its fancy moving/deletion.
The same effect can be achieved through use of OZC's wiper tool or Intel's SSD Toolkit (so you can run it on non-Windows 7 OS's), but obviously the firmware needs to support it, and you need to schedule it, rather than it being automatic within Windows 7.
And also this means you can't recover the data once you delete it!
I can't really explain it as well as Anand - Anand's articles on SSDs does a lot better!
In short, once you run the SSD toolkit on your Intel SSD (once they sort out their problems), you will be able to maintain your drive's performance at out of box speeds (or close to it).
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MJinZ
Diamond Member
- Nov 4, 2009
- 8,192
- 0
- 0
Use your SSD for boot/useful apps only. Keep 1/2 to 1/3 free space. TRIM or not, in this instance, it makes no difference in performance for a large period of time.
Upgrade to new Firmware when it becomes available. It should not be bricking or killing your system in any way.
Keep your files backed up in case you need to do a wipe + install.
Upgrade to new Firmware when it becomes available. It should not be bricking or killing your system in any way.
Keep your files backed up in case you need to do a wipe + install.
So, from what I've read here and in Anand's articles, SSDs (and presumably all flash media including usb thumb drives) don't actually delete anything, they just move files? And therefore the only way to actually delete something is to use the new TRIM or manually wipe the drive?
Is this correct?
Is this correct?
Ok I just began using my other new SSD, Intel 80 GB G2. Flashed it with the pulled BIOS. Windows 7 64 bit installs fine and everything. Drive did not die.
The only big problem I had was with AHPI. I could not for the life of me get Windows 7 64 bit to install or complete the installation whenever I enabled AHPI. My latest motherboard BIOS wouldn't even pass the bootup screen of my system BIOS check after enabling AHPI. Had to reset the CMOS manually. Even when I did get a fresh install of windows 7 64bit to install it would hang at the very end on and on at completing installation when ACPI was enabled. Tried going back to a different BIOS and that was even worst. The Windows 7 64 bit installation wouldn't even begin and get stuck on the first screen with ACPI enabled. Had to go back to disabling ACPI and putting it back to IDE
I was so scared the latest firmware broke my drive but it turns out that was not the case thankfully.
Does anyone know if ACPI needs to be enabled for TRIM to work please ? I hope not.
The only big problem I had was with AHPI. I could not for the life of me get Windows 7 64 bit to install or complete the installation whenever I enabled AHPI. My latest motherboard BIOS wouldn't even pass the bootup screen of my system BIOS check after enabling AHPI. Had to reset the CMOS manually. Even when I did get a fresh install of windows 7 64bit to install it would hang at the very end on and on at completing installation when ACPI was enabled. Tried going back to a different BIOS and that was even worst. The Windows 7 64 bit installation wouldn't even begin and get stuck on the first screen with ACPI enabled. Had to go back to disabling ACPI and putting it back to IDE
I was so scared the latest firmware broke my drive but it turns out that was not the case thankfully.Does anyone know if ACPI needs to be enabled for TRIM to work please ? I hope not.
So basically you're admitting that the entire point of your earlier post was to spam?
+1 post count?
No but why post something so off topic? I don't post anything because no one else does. Tired of getting the run around. If you don't like it oh well. Life isn't always fair.
MJinZ
Diamond Member
- Nov 4, 2009
- 8,192
- 0
- 0
Ok I just began using my other new SSD, Intel 80 GB G2. Flashed it with the pulled BIOS. Windows 7 64 bit installs fine and everything. Drive did not die.
The only big problem I had was with AHPI. I could not for the life of me get Windows 7 64 bit to install or complete the installation whenever I enabled AHPI. My latest motherboard BIOS wouldn't even pass the bootup screen of my system BIOS check after enabling AHPI. Had to reset the CMOS manually. Even when I did get a fresh install of windows 7 64bit to install it would hang at the very end on and on at completing installation when ACPI was enabled. Tried going back to a different BIOS and that was even worst. The Windows 7 64 bit installation wouldn't even begin and get stuck on the first screen with ACPI enabled. Had to go back to disabling ACPI and putting it back to IDE
Does anyone know if ACPI needs to be enabled for TRIM to work please ? I hope not.
Yes, AHCI is required for TRIM (and the other proper SSD functions). An SSD running in IDE is fairly pointless. I assume you mean AHCI, ACPI is something entirely different.
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Elcs
Diamond Member
- Apr 27, 2002
- 6,278
- 6
- 81
Not sure it is possible. With Vista that required a registry hack or reinstall.
I would recommend a reinstall despite how appealing that is.
taltamir
Lifer
- Mar 21, 2004
- 13,576
- 6
- 76
the last few steps are unnecessary.
1) Install Windows 7 on a fresh X25-M
2) Use as normal
3) When Intel fixes their issues and releases a TRIM firmware with a fixed installer, flash the firmware, it will not harm your data.
4) When firmware is flashed, install the intel SSD toolbox and run the optimizer. once.
Running the optimizer once will inspect the drive and manually trim everything that has been deleted and not trimmed. Afterwards, windows itself will automatically trim the space of every file you delete, when you delete it
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