New TV advice

[jamesdsimone]

I am looking to get a new TV. I'm planning on getting a 65". I have looked at a million reviews etc and everyone seems to have a different opinion. I am thinking I want to go with a mini QLED. I am leaning toward an LG either series 85 or 90. I have a older SONY 55" X850D LED that I don't really like that much. It constantly reboots and the smart features which I never use crash all the time locking u my screen. I have a couple questions. Is there any reason to get an 8k TV? Also, how does LG's QNED match up against Samsung Neo mini QLED. I looked at OLED TV but decided that the flaws in the technology wouldn't fit my need. I don't upgrade frequently so not sure I want a TV that has screen degradation as I have read. I have had the SONY for 7 years.

 

[nOOky]

There is almost no content available in 8k yet, and the near future doesn't look that great. Unless it is heavily discounted or has some features you want it's probably not a consideration. You've ruled out OLED so after that rule things out by your viewing environment and price. If you can't tell any difference between picture quality between the LG and Sony, then focus on the operating systems and try to use each one's at the store. Moving through a cruddy interface is frustrating, and that's a big part of using a smart tv imho.

Good luck!

 

[jamesdsimone]

Further reading says that most makers are dropping 8k probably because there is no content yet or in the new future so dropping that as a consideration. I have been reading more about the screen life of OLED so now back to considering an OLED. I am down to either an LG B2/C2 vs Samsung S95B OLED and an LG QNED90 vs Samsung QN90B QLED. If the TV fits my TV stand in my bedroom it will be going there which is dark. The other spot is in a much brighter room but it won't be used much during the day. The OS is not a consideration. I will never use it. The TV will be connected to one of my gaming PC's.

 

[Dranoche]

RTINGS rated the Samsung OLED better than both Sony and LG's top models. Generally not by much but notably in a few spots. You'll need to dig into the features. Samsung supports HRD10+ while LG supports Dolby Vision, build quality appears to be better on the LG, and Samsung's software and firmware is not always well-received. You say you'll never use the OS, but I would at least check to make sure no firmware updates have created any issues. The Samsung is cheaper by a little bit. Burn-in on OLED doesn't appear to be an issue for mixed use, and shouldn't be an issue for gaming unless you play the same game all day every day for years and a high brightness. Since it seems you'll be using it in generally darker conditions, there's no need to jack the brightness up, which should further reduce any potential for burn-in. Sidenote: Late last year RTINGS started a new longevity test for a wide range of TVs, should have the first update before too long.

Can't speak to the QNED or QLED. 4k content seemed to come around fairly quickly so early adoption, barring older HDMI versions on some early 4k TVs, was not a bad call. I don't see 8k taking off anytime soon, and none of the 8k TVs seem to test as well as the better 4k TVs. Movies would be the first reason to step up to 8k, but there aren't any available and at 65" the potential improvement probably wouldn't be any better than a higher quality 4k TV.

 

[jamesdsimone]

I have been looking at that site. The S95B uses a QD OLED panel which is newer technology and supposedly has much longer life than the older OLED panels. I have been able to see the Samsung S95B next to their standard QLED and the colors are a little better and the blacks are better. I have only been able to see the LG QNED series 80 which is an older model. I have seen the B2/C2 but not next to the S95B. Where are you looking at prices? Everywhere I look the Samsungs are more expensive. The LG QNED90 is the lowest priced of the ones I am considering. I have read that Dolby Vision is better than HDR10+ so that is a plus for the LG's. I don't know how much of a difference that makes though. What firmware issues would there be. I used a Samsung plasma for a long time without too many issues with burn-in.

 

[Dranoche]

LG uses WBGR (white-blue-green-red) OLED panels, where there's a white subpixel added to each subpixel cluster (which are arranged in rows) to help improve brightness. This can result in reduced saturation as the extra white light used to brighten the pixel also washes it out. The subpixels are essentially an emissive filtering layer over a white OLED light source. I'm not 100% sure on the exact structure but that should be roughly how they work. Sony was using LG panels for a while. They use Samsung panels now, which are QD-OLED panels which have a triangular RGB subpixel configuration, and use a blue OLED light source. QD tech on LED TVs is a filtering layer that cuts out some of the traditional LCD layers to allow more light through, resulting in brighter and more accurate colors. On QD-OLED the structure is very similar to a white oled panel except the QD layer is the filter over the light source, which is blue. This results in more saturated colors, and a wider color gamut. Note that this is not the same as a blue OLED that you may have read of, which refers to a panel using phosphorescent blue instead of fluorescent blue. Fluorescent blue lasts longer but is very inefficent. If lifespan of phosphorescent blue can be suitably extended it may provide good enough efficiency to get to higher resolution panels on a larger scale than we currently have. Sidenote: forgot to mention before that 8k TVs have largely been dropped or the lineup significantly reduced by most manufacturers for 2023, purportedly due to new EU energy use requirements.

The subpixel structure may affect how well the panel can display text without artifacts. Text rendering is handled primarily by the OS, which expects a horizontal RGB subpixel layout when figuring subpixel rendering of text. Not sure why there aren't magic fixes for this in GPU drivers to address common subpixel structures (maybe there are?), or how feasible that would even be.

Black should be true black on both but in a bright room there may be potential for light scattering on the surface layer of a QD-OLED to give the appearance of a grayish black. There is less black crush (loss of shadow detail) on QD-OLED due the lack of the white subpixel. Use of the white subpixel creates overshoot in certain situations that can commonly manifest as flickering. Mitigation methods to address that, such as dithering, can cause black crush.

HDR10+ is a free (no license fees) dynamic metadata competitor to Dolby Vision (proprietary) and is part of the HDMI standard. Dolby Vision popped up first though. I think only some content on Amazon Prime uses HDR10+. Dolby Vision content is pretty widespread on streaming services and physical media.

I have read a few reddit threads where Samsung firmware updates broke or negatively affected certain features like VRR or HDR, or changing peak brightness. Haven't looked into it much so I can't say for sure. Don't want to scare you off of them, just recommend doing some research if you're leaning towards one. General recommendation is to turn off automatic updates if you can. Since you aren't interested in the built-in software you could keep it disconnected from the internet and only update once you feel comfortable with reports on the update.

LG G2 OLED (step above the C2, sorry I was looking at the wrong one) is currently $2,000. LG C2 OLED is $1,700. The Samsung S95B is currently $1,800. Those are straight from the manufacturers, and from Best Buy.

 

[jamesdsimone]

I looked at the LG G2 but it didn't seem to offer much for the extra money and it does not come with a stand. I am hoping to see the updated LG QNED and the Samsung S95B OLED. The LG QNED is the least expensive. I've read also Dolby vision has wider support than HDR10+. I'm probably going to make a choice and see if there are any sales for Presidents Day.

 

[Dranoche]

The C2 will be the better value within the LG OLED lineup. Both use the same image processor. The G2 has a heatsink layer, which allows for the panel to be driven at higher brightness. With the contrast of an OLED, and if you're using it in relatively darker lighting conditions, there's no need to run it in the brightness range that the heatsink allows over a non-heatsink model. Based on that, a heatsink isn't worth the extra cost. I believe Sony puts heatsinks in all of their OLEDs. Samsung does not use them, and is driving their panels to comparable brightness levels as the G2. Heatsinks do help with temporary image retention, and could potentially help extend life before burn-in for fringe use cases where burn-in is more likely.

If you have to choose, Dolby Vision over HDR10+ is the smart choice because of the volume of content. Panasonic, TCL, and Hisense TVs offer support for both, though TCL and Hisense don't offer OLED and Panasonic is no longer in the American market. I wish Panasonic would come back, their OLEDs look to be highly competitve with the rest of the market.

The QNED and the other Samsung you were looking at are mini LED TVs, which are LED LCDs with more backlight modules for better backlight control.

 

[jamesdsimone]

The TV will be in my bedroom which is dark and will be used 90% of the time at night so brightness is not really an issue. I saw that HDR10+ content lags behind Dolby Vision. I am concerned that the HDR10+ will just lose support like Betamax vs VHS? I assume standard HDR10 will continue to be supported. The Samsung NEO QLED models are priced higher than their OLED's not sure why. If I go with the LG OLED then the C2 looks like the best choice. But the Samsung QD OLED panel looks better for burn in and screen life. I didn't realize Panasonic doesn't sell TV's in the US. Not sure why not. I have a Panasonic Plasma that I bought a long time ago. It's a nice TV.

 

[Dranoche]

I don't see HDR10+ gaining significant market share anytime soon even if it does survive. It has support though from Prime Video, Hulu, and Paramount+, so it will probably linger on. TVs with only Dolby Vision are probably getting some kind of licensing deal from Dolby to keep them from implementing HDR10+ so I don't see much dual support in the future. Dolby Vision had the benefit of getting out there 3 years earlier than HDR10+. On paper the DV spec has more headroom for the future before requiring any updates, but most things are mastered without using much of what it's capable of because current TVs aren't even close. In reality the end product between DV and HDR10+ should be approximately the same, with potential differences only due to the separate mastering processes.

Panasonic dipped out not too long after they stopped selling plasmas. They stopped producing plasmas in 2014 because they were struggling to sell them, probably due to improvements in LCDs getting close enough for most people. I think they actually started to cut back around 2012. In 2016 they were gone from the US. Pioneer cut out in 2009 for the same reason, couldn't turn a profit. I still have a Panasonic plasma as well.

 

[Pohemi]

HDR10+ is a Samsung developed standard because they didn't want to pay the licensing fees to Dolby for DV. You are correct in that there seems to be far less content in HDR10+ than in DolbyVision (from what I've seen). If you want DolbyVision, go with the LG or Sony options.

I have a Samsung QN85 55" and I love it, but I do occasionally wish it had DV support.

 

[igor_kavinski]

https://www.bestbuy.com/site/lg-65-class-90-series-qned-mini-led-4k-uhd-smart-webos-tv/6461916.p

According to the RTINGS review, this model has a contrast ratio of 100,000+ with local dimming, despite having an IPS panel. Overall, if you want to avoid possible lacklustre quality control issues with Samsung and the burn-in problems of OLED, this TV model seems to be your best bet for general and long term usage. The input lag is excellent for gaming. For the price, I think this TV delivers the best peace of mind for someone who wants the least issues in owning a new TV. Plus, if you actively watch Netflix, Dolby Vision support is icing on the cake.

I would, however, recommend that you pay for an additional one or two years of warranty support, for even more peace of mind. You can never predict what may go wrong.

But OLED isn't really a big headache to deal with. You just need to be careful with it and give it enough time to refresh its pixels in standby mode every day. I think most burn-in issues are experienced when people use OLEDs recklessly like a typical TV, keeping it on for 20 hours a day (falling asleep with the news running on TV) and then complain that LG screwed them. Nope, you screwed yourself by using your expensive TV technology stupidly without properly understanding its limitations. For dark room HDR picture quality, OLEDs are a Godsend.

 

[jamesdsimone]

This is getting more complicated every time I look. The features I want if I go with an OLED are a QD OLED panel with Dolby Vision. The C2 has Dolby Vision but uses the older OLED panel. The Samsung has the QD OLED but no Dolby Vision. My readings tell me both HDR10+ and Dolby Vision are not going to be both supported in the long run and Dolby Vision has the advantage. The Sony Bravia A95K has both but it's 1000.00 dollars more. The Samsung NEO QLED is rated better than the LG QNED but again no Dolby Vision.

 

[Rayman30]

This is getting more complicated every time I look. The features I want if I go with an OLED are a QD OLED panel with Dolby Vision. The C2 has Dolby Vision but uses the older OLED panel. The Samsung has the QD OLED but no Dolby Vision. My readings tell me both HDR10+ and Dolby Vision are not going to be both supported in the long run and Dolby Vision has the advantage. The Sony Bravia A95K has both but it's 1000.00 dollars more. The Samsung NEO QLED is rated better than the LG QNED but again no Dolby Vision.

The LG C2 supports both as you know, but its close enough in brightness to a QD OLED not to be an issue in the environment you are in. Having seen these side by side, the LG OLED C2 is a more natural (In the way it presents colors) panel, I don't put much stock in burn in hysteria, both panels have a plethora of software to mitigate it. Also, the LG OLEDs have better black levels with the lights on vs the QD OLED due to differences in the anti glare coating, Linus even made a video on this. If you love big punchy colors, get the Samsung, but in most other cases I recommend the C2, especially for a darker environment. also I prefer LG software but that's moot.

 

[jamesdsimone]

The LG C2 supports both as you know, but its close enough in brightness to a QD OLED not to be an issue in the environment you are in. Having seen these side by side, the LG OLED C2 is a more natural (In the way it presents colors) panel, I don't put much stock in burn in hysteria, both panels have a plethora of software to mitigate it. Also, the LG OLEDs have better black levels with the lights on vs the QD OLED due to differences in the anti glare coating, Linus even made a video on this. If you love big punchy colors, get the Samsung, but in most other cases I recommend the C2, especially for a darker environment. also I prefer LG software but that's moot.

Thanks for the input. The more I read the more I think Dolby Vision the most important feature especially in the long run. I don't upgrade often so that is an issue. Dolby Vision is probably going to be supported in the long run. HDR10+ may or may not be. Plus 12 bit vs 10 bit means 68 billion colors and 4096 gray scale vs 1 billion and 1024. Dolby Vision will have the capability to give a much better picture even if the QD OLED is more advanced. I heard all kinds of issues with burn in with plasmas but it was never a big problem for me. I had some but you could only see it when the screen was blank. Screen life I saw 100,000 hours on the C2. So C2 seems to be the front runner at this point. Thanks for the info.

 

[igor_kavinski]

Dolby Vision is probably going to be supported in the long run.

Funny thing, I was obsessed with Dolby Vision when my Sony X900E didn't have it. With my LG, I don't watch Netflix so the only DV material I've seen on it are the sample vids on the TV storage.

 

[Motostu]

Just got a C2 as an upgrade from the LG B7A that I have. Loving it so far; it has a more uniform near black picture, and gets brighter than the old one ( and I always loved the picture on it) . As already stated, burn in is almost not a concern anymore; outside of constantly running news banners or keeping static images on for extreme lengths of time, most people should not experience it on the newer TVs over many years of use.

If you do go with the C2, I don't think you'd regret it.

 

[jamesdsimone]

The LG C2 supports both as you know, but its close enough in brightness to a QD OLED not to be an issue in the environment you are in. Having seen these side by side, the LG OLED C2 is a more natural (In the way it presents colors) panel, I don't put much stock in burn in hysteria, both panels have a plethora of software to mitigate it. Also, the LG OLEDs have better black levels with the lights on vs the QD OLED due to differences in the anti glare coating, Linus even made a video on this. If you love big punchy colors, get the Samsung, but in most other cases I recommend the C2, especially for a darker environment. also I prefer LG software but that's moot.

Thanks for the input. The more I read the more I think Dolby Vision the most important feature especially in the long run. I don't upgrade often so that is an issue. Dolby Vision is probably going to be supported in the long run. HDR10+ may or may not be. Plus 12 bit vs 10 bit means 68 billion colors and 4096 gray scale vs 1 billion and 1024. Dolby Vision will have the capability to give a much better picture even if the QD OLED is more advanced. I heard all kinds of issues with burn in with plasmas but it was never a big problem for me. I had some but you could only see it when the screen was blank. Screen life I saw 100,000 hours on the C2. So C2 seems to be the front runner at this point. Thanks for the info.

 

[jamesdsimone]

I just checked and the remote uses AA batteries. That seals it. AAA batteries are a waste.

 

[WhiteNoise]

I compared most of these TVs recently and saw each of them in person. I'm a big QLED fan and own a really good Samsung QLED TV, I wanted to buy a new one but when i saw the OLED TV's side by side the QLED I had to own a OLED.

I bought the G2 for the higher brightness, the slick wall mount and the carbon fiber back with heatsink. I like the extra brightness this display has over the C2 (which I came close to buying) and I use my TV as a PC monitor in a light controlled room. The G2 is nothing short of amazing.

 

[jamesdsimone]

I took a look at a C2 and B2 at Bestbuy and you can tell the C2 has a slightly better picture. They both seemed bright enough in the store but don't know how high the brightness was turned up. I will be using the TV in a dark room so brightness isn't too much of an issue. I have been using plasmas forever without a problem. I need a TV with a stand so ruled out the G2. It will be connected to a PC though but will be used for TV movies and games 90% of the time.

 

[igor_kavinski]

I have to say, my opinion changed today when I saw the following:

Sony A80K OLED vs. Samsung QN95: Excellent sharpness and accurate colors. Samsung had punchier colors. Would be really hard to choose between these two. I would get both but if I could only get one, it would be Sony.

LG OLED (forgot to see which one): Picture sharpness paled in comparison with above. Colors were oversaturated.

Sony X90K: I would choose this over the LG OLED I saw. Sony's picture processing and motion smoothing is just too good.

 

[jamesdsimone]

The model of the LG makes a big difference. Bestbuy had the A2 B2 and C2 on display. The A2 had a significantly inferior picture. The Sony X90J is 2499 vs 1699 for the LG C2. And the A95K is 2999. That is a significantly higher price. Is the extra money worth it? The X90K is a mini QLED right? I decided I want a TV with Dolby Vision so that rules out Samsung.

 

[CP5670]

Also looking at them in a store is not a good comparison, they are often poorly calibrated and the bright store lights make OLED look worse than it would in a home theater setup.

 

[igor_kavinski]

Sony X90K/X90CK Review (XR-55X90K, XR-65X90K, XR-75X90K, XR-85X90K)

The Sony X90K/X90CK is an upper mid-range 4k LED TV released in 2022. It sits above the Sony X85K and below the Sony X95K, and it's Sony's lowest-end model in 20...

www.rtings.com

It's a decent TV with a VA panel. Not the best choice but might be OK if you want to experience Sony's proprietary image enhancement technologies without paying too much. The LG OLED I saw was a 65 inch model and very prominently placed so it must have been a high end model, probably the C1 or C2. It's picture just looked kinda soft whereas Sony and Samsung had a razor sharp image. I just couldn't take my eyes off them.

Sony A80K/A80CK OLED Review (XR-55A80K , XR-65A80K, XR-77A80K )

The Sony A80K/A80CK OLED is one of two entry-level OLEDs in Sony's 2022 lineup. It sits behind the Sony A90K OLED and the QD-OLED Sony A95K OLED; in Europe, it s...

www.rtings.com

The color gamut of this TV is superb and it's really well calibrated out of the box. It's only drawback is that it won't get very bright but that shouldn't matter in a dark room. Even in bright light, it managed to impress me. But for HDR content, if you want the brightest highlights, yeah, then the LG G2 might be the one you want.