New to SSDs? Read this first before asking questions! (UPDATED 07/17/2011)

[gaslight]

Quote: Originally Posted by gaslight Finally, can I use Windows 7 Pro to create an image (like a Norton Ghost image) of the SSD on the hard drive?

Yes. One big unknown is if it will retain alignment. Presumably since you are doing a fresh install on the SSD, it will.

Thanks for the reply. That would be a hassle to lose alignment whenever an image was restored. Do you think that it's best not to rely on images? I usually make a hard drive image whenever installing new software. Do you think it's better to rely instead on System Restore?

 

[Zap]

Page file size really depends on what software you use. You can check with Task Manager or Resource Monitor and see what your memory usage is, and go with that. I have 6GB RAM and doesn't seem like I'm using it all, so if I were to fiddle with my settings, I'd probably just let it do 1GB or so on the SSD.

For alignment I think if it is a fresh Win7 install on an SSD (thus already aligned) then the image would be aligned. What are you using for imaging?

 

[Psyside]

Lets start by saying that i'm sorry for many questions and kind off stupid ones..

k lil update, its hard to play the wait game for me


Where i live is really hard to get an Vertex 2 or Corsair Force F60....

Crucial and Intel models, as well hard to find and even if i could order one they are not really good for write speed programs/games instalation which really pissed me off on the S596. So basically i'm looking for an Sandforce based disk, yes i'm picky i know. The pick would be definitely some Sandforce disks, (knowing they suite best for my needs) and have the most close read/write ratio as well as good reputation and generall quallity.


Now what i can get easy are this 2 models, others are very hard to find..

1.Patriot Inferno 60GB model - (PI60GS25SSDR)

2. A-DATA S599 64GB

Now i'm quite confused seeing most of the reviews coming with amaizing numbers behind the S599, beating even the Corsair Force and the Ocz Vertex 2

But..there are few of them who report lower scores, and inconsistent performance, and of top of that i read few Newegg users reviews who stated the same. Now in all fairness all of this drives share the same controler, yes i'm new to SSD but i learned (as Zap said) that they should peform very similar to each other..right.

Now, i understand that firmware might be and issue or revision used in the tests, but still is this the only reason behind various performance reports?

BTW yes i know that the scores varies because of the compressable/uncompressable data used as test patern for some benchmarks software, like AS-SSD and CDM but i saw lower scores even in ATTO and HD Tune!? now im leaning toward the A-DATA S599 because its like huge 70 euros cheaper from the Patriot Inferno, but i dunno if its worth to risk and get bad revision or some of the random..lower performing units. Whats the difference from the first revision of A-DATA S599 and the second, if anyone know some info about it i would like to know...


Does Patriot Inferno series offer alot better reliability? does getting a better brand insure better unit? knowing they use same controler but different firmware, most likely used. Also there are 2 revisions of Patriot Inferno same as A-DATA S599...whats the difference for Patriot series as well? god damn it...

P.S. just look at this page for SSD disks comparation! how close is the A-DATA.. which make me even more confused, yes i compared the scores on all tests. All of the Sandforce based disks perform alomost the same, even the S599 used in the comparation is lower capacity disk 64 vs 120GB models.

http://www.ssdreview.com/ssd-review...series-e-f120-120gb-11a,a-data-s599-64gb-310/

http://www.ssdreview.com/ssd-review...b-11a,a-data-s599-64gb-310/pcmarkvantage.html

And now this??

http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/storage/2010/06/25/sandforce-ssd-test/12

Really dunno what to say..

 

[gaslight]

For alignment I think if it is a fresh Win7 install on an SSD (thus already aligned) then the image would be aligned. What are you using for imaging?

I haven't found anything (e.g. Acronis) that claims to work with SSDs. So I thought I'd use the Windows 7 Image Backup Tool. Don't know if it works with SSDs either.

 

[Zap]

k lil update, its hard to play the wait game for me
...
Now i'm quite confused
...
does getting a better brand insure better unit?
...
Really dunno what to say..

Here's the deal. You come off as the type that obsesses and agonizes over everything. Thus you should buy the "safe" choice, which is the more expensive unit. Why? Because if you get the cheaper unit you will be forever benchmarking it and banging your head against the wall wondering why your numbers are 3% lower than what some reviewer got. So, just take a deep breath, buy the Patriot, install it and enjoy.

Oh yeah, last bit of advice is to never, ever randomly benchmark it to "see if it is performing up to par." Because as soon as you do, it won't. And then you will go in endless circles banging your head against the wall and agonizing over it.

I haven't found anything (e.g. Acronis) that claims to work with SSDs. So I thought I'd use the Windows 7 Image Backup Tool. Don't know if it works with SSDs either.

It will "work with SSDs" but the real question is... will it retain alignment? My random guess is that if the drive was aligned before the imaging, it will stay that way afterward. I have no proof of that, so would you like to be our guinea pig? :awe:

 

[Psyside]

True that, fact is that i'm often quite unlucky with products, and i know why! its bad karma because i over analayze things, your totally right

Today i read about the better firmware on Vertex 2 which allowed them 50K IOPS and make my decision even harder knowing that Vertex 2 is really hard to get here, well i guess Patriot will be, thanks on clearing things up. Just one more question, does any Patriot Inferno version come with the 50k IOPS firmware? thanks and sorry for bothering

 

[taltamir]

I haven't found anything (e.g. Acronis) that claims to work with SSDs. So I thought I'd use the Windows 7 Image Backup Tool. Don't know if it works with SSDs either.

for intel ssd only, intel makes a partition duplication tool specific for SSD... I haven't checked but i assume it correctly aligns.

 

[Diogenes2]

...


It will "work with SSDs" but the real question is... will it retain alignment? My random guess is that if the drive was aligned before the imaging, it will stay that way afterward. I have no proof of that, so would you like to be our guinea pig? :awe:

I can affirm that it does..

I originally used the Win7 image tool to move from spindle drive to SSD.. I had to use Paragon to align it. I subsequently had to re-image from a back-up, and alignment was retained..

( Vertex2 )

 

[gaslight]

Proper care and feeding for SSDs updated 11/12
This section is for people using Windows 7 on a fairly new computer
Step 1: Enable AHCI in BIOS.

When I go to the BIOS page for this, it shows all 3 drives {SSD, HD, DVD}. But when I enable AHCI, the drives disappear/are no longer detected.

So does AHCI work with hard drives and optical drives also? Because there is no way to set AHCI or IDE for the drives individually.

 

[taltamir]

When I go to the BIOS page for this, it shows all 3 drives {SSD, HD, DVD}. But when I enable AHCI, the drives disappear/are no longer detected.

So does AHCI work with hard drives and optical drives also? Because there is no way to set AHCI or IDE for the drives individually.

AHCI works for HDD and optical drives. because of its full automatic configuration it does not list the individual drives there for you to select manual or automatic configuration. But the drives will show up in the boot order selection and will work.

 

[gaslight]

AHCI works for HDD and optical drives. because of its full automatic configuration it does not list the individual drives there for you to select manual or automatic configuration. But the drives will show up in the boot order selection and will work.

thanks, appreciate the help.

 

[strep3241]

I am looking at buying two SSD's sometime soon, maybe even today. Here are the three I was looking at.

OCZ Vertex 2 120gb

G Skill Phoenix Pro 120gb

Intel X-25M 120gb

I am going to get one for my machine and one for my Dad's basic office machine. I thought about getting the OCZ for my machine and the Intel for Dad's machine.

Is there anything special I have to do to start using these drives? I mean do I just hook it up and start installing Windows? Do I need to change anything in the bios? If it matters, both machines will have a secondary normal hard drive. Do you have to update the firmware from time to time, I mean is it absolutely necessary? When you do update the firmware, do you have to reinstall Windows? Anything else I would need to do to the drive over time? What is all this I keep reading about aligning the drive?

One of these machines has Windows XP on it if that matters. I can't remember where but I read somewhere that you should not install an SSD on a machine running Windows XP. I think he was talking about a specific drive but can't remember which one. He didn't give details either. I know XP doesn't have trim. Would that be the only reason?

 

[Zap]

Is there anything special I have to do to start using these drives? I mean do I just hook it up and start installing Windows? Do I need to change anything in the bios? If it matters, both machines will have a secondary normal hard drive.

Did you bother to read the sticky?

Do you have to update the firmware from time to time, I mean is it absolutely necessary? When you do update the firmware, do you have to reinstall Windows? Anything else I would need to do to the drive over time? What is all this I keep reading about aligning the drive?

Don't fix what ain't broke!

I think firmware updates are data destructive on SSDs.

If the drive and OS support Trim, nothing else needs to be done. Windows 7 and (I think) Vista aligns properly.

One of these machines has Windows XP on it if that matters. I can't remember where but I read somewhere that you should not install an SSD on a machine running Windows XP. I think he was talking about a specific drive but can't remember which one. He didn't give details either. I know XP doesn't have trim. Would that be the only reason?

XP is a lot different. Besides lack of Trim, XP does not align partitions correctly. This affects not only SSDs but the latest large (usually 2TB+) hard drives as well. I would highly suggest upgrading the system to Windows 7.

 

[strep3241]

How do you manually align the partition on XP systems?

When you say don't fix what isn't broke, are you saying if the drive is running fine, don't worry about updating the firmware?

 

[Zap]

How do you manually align the partition on XP systems?

One easy way to do this is to create the partition on a Windows 7/Vista computer, then install XP onto it.

When you say don't fix what isn't broke, are you saying if the drive is running fine, don't worry about updating the firmware?

Correct.

 

[Psyside]

Ok again me lol! i'm getting an Vertex 2 (60GB) in few days or so.


Few questions, because there is so much different info about this procedure. And also the guys at OCZ forums seems like don't want to answer, so i posting this over here.


1. Do i install OS on it, via WIN7 installer or use a different tool to do this?

2. Do i need to format or quick format, the disk before the WIN7 installation?

3. 32k, 64K, 128K alignment or default (let WIN7) do everything?

Thanks!

 

[taltamir]

Ok again me lol! i'm getting an Vertex 2 (60GB) in few days or so.


few questions, because there is so much different info about this procedure. And also the guys at OCZ forums seems like don't want to answer, so i posting this over here.


1. Do i install OS on it, via WIN7 installer or use a different tool to do this?

2. Do i need to format or quick format, the disk before the WIN7 installation.

3. 32k, 64K, 128K alignment? or default? (let WIN7) do everything.

step 1: turn on AHCI in bios.
step 2: install windows 7

that is it. Windows 7 will only let you quickformat it (which is good), and will automatically handle alignment.

 

[Psyside]

step 1: turn on AHCI in bios.
step 2: install windows 7

that is it. Windows 7 will only let you quickformat it (which is good), and will automatically handle alignment.

Thats all i wanted to hear, thanks man!

 

[Starbuck1975]

I posted a thread seperate from the sticky, but have one final question. I am looking at the OCZ Vertex 2 OCZSSD3-2VTX90G 3.5" 90GB as my OS/application primary drive.

Having trouble confirming whether or not it is a Sandforce drive, and whether or not it enables Trim. I went to the OCZ website and dug around on their Wiki, but the language is not clear.

 

[Zap]

Yes and yes. If you go to the first page of this thread/sticky and click on "Which SSD should I buy?" you would have found your answer for the controller question. Hmmm, I should update that list a bit... I'll add Trim info. Not that it will stop the questions as seen by the continuous flow of new threads asking "how do I set up an SSD with Windows 7?"

As to Trim, AFAIK all consumer level SSDs released in the past year has it, so I don't think it is an issue anymore unless you find some leftover stock or some off-brand. Also, you can pretty much go by the controller. For instance all Intel G2, all Indilinx, all Sandforce have Trim (sometimes requires firmware update if it was purchased a long time ago).

 

[hal2kilo]

I haven't found anything (e.g. Acronis) that claims to work with SSDs. So I thought I'd use the Windows 7 Image Backup Tool. Don't know if it works with SSDs either.

I've used Win 7 64 bit Pro to image 2 SSDs so far with no problems. My latest purchase, an Intel x25-M 120gb comes with imaging software on a mini-CD that's made by Acronis (read somewhere). I did not bother to use it though.

 

[Riotubes]

I am preparing to a do a fresh install of Win7 Pro 64 bit on a new OCZ Vertex 2 90GB SSD and need to understand how to align and partition this SSD. I could really use some help as I am a novice. I want to:

a. use two partitions: one for Win7 only and the other for Apps. I've read I need 20GB+15GB (for XP)=35GB min for Win7
b. place all data on a 1TB HDD
c. create an image of Win7 partition and separate image of Apps partition
d. if I should need to reinstall either the Win7 partition or Apps partition, I would like to do that so that I don't have to reinstall both Win7 and Apps.

Given that this is a fresh install on all new hardware....
1. Must I align the SSD first and, if so, how?
2. would you recommend 35GB partition for Win7?
3. when and how do I partition the SSD? Just 2 (1 for OS, 2 for Apps) or do I need another for something else?
4. to which drive do I save the images? The SSD, the HDD or DVD?
5. of these things, what is the proper sequence of things I need to do?

As I am a novice I would greatly appreciate some feedback!

 

[Zap]

Hello Riotubes, and welcome to AnandTech forums.

1) Have you read the first few posts of this sticky? Win7 aligns for you.
2) No.
3) Use Win7 to create partition during install.
4) Save images to a physically separate storage medium. Doesn't matter if SSD, HDD, DVD blanks or USB thumb drive. It just has to be separate from the imaged drive.
5) Read the sticky. You are asking questions which do not need answered, and making things difficult for yourself.

Why a separate partition for software/apps? It is my experience that even if on another drive, once Windows is reinstalled most software will have to be reinstalled anyways, unless you specifically use only portable apps.

 

[Riotubes]

Hello Riotubes, and welcome to AnandTech forums.

Why a separate partition for software/apps? It is my experience that even if on another drive, once Windows is reinstalled most software will have to be reinstalled anyways, unless you specifically use only portable apps.

Thank you Zap for your quick and helpful reply. I have read conflicting reports by users as to whether they can wipe and restore just the OS with an image if it is on a separate partition. If possible, restoring the OS with an image and not having to reinstall apps is appealing and the only reason for setting up a separate partition for OS and another for Apps. Can this be done reliably? I gather that in your experience this is not possible to do?

Yes, I am probably overcomplicating things...my questions definitely demonstrate my ignorance of the topic. Any help is appreciated!

 

[overtonesinger]

I have A-Data S596 64GB in an ACER Notebook (with Core i5).
(I updated it to firmware 2.0, then re-installed OD Win7 x64 on it)
- the writing speed was 30 MB/s , now it is 99 MB /s
- reading about 228 MB/s , always.

1. Does it matter where do I leave those 15 percent of free space (unformatted) ?
2. Or shall I leave the 15 percent free space on the system partition instead?
3. Or both ?

I try to learn how NOT to wear off the SSD too fast (I plan to use it for whole 5 years of its normal life-span). So, there are things that I have already set:
a) I turned off swap. I have enough RAM (8 GB).
b) on RAMDISK goes: Firefox profile(cache etc), Downloaded files, BOINC DATA - semi-results of computations, Temp, manual unpacking of ZIP archives etc.
c) I have quick-defragmented the sys.partition just once, after the complete installation of the system and bacis tuning (removing unused software, updated windows and drivers etc... ). And I will NEVER defragment it again.
d) I will never benchmark it again. (I made a screenshot of the result,just for sure).


Is there something more I can do to prolong life of the SSD ???