hal2kilo
Lifer
Yup, leave it to those who hate all that uncle sam money to be the first ones in line to suck it up.
After all that's what the entrepreneurial spirit that we can be proud of as Americans is all about.
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New Title: Staunch liberal admits to being lifelong Conservative Republican
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Yup, leave it to those who hate all that uncle sam money to be the first ones in line to suck it up.
After all that's what the entrepreneurial spirit that we can be proud of as Americans is all about.
sportage
Lifer
State road construction is the number one source of local fraud. If any program should be stopped, it should be the way the fed gov funds state road construction. Every single year in the state they close the same roads starting from April and thru to the end of december. Then magically all closed roads are finished and opened the last weeks of december. Why? Because states get matching federal funding for roads. If a state does not use all their granted funding for that year, then the next year they get less funding. States play games to make sure that does not happen. They close roads for 9 months, with no one ever on site actually working on the road. Or they dig up a road, and then it sits for months, closed and no one working on the hole in the ground.
I don't know about other states, but this happens every year here.
States that pull this crap do not need all the federal matching funding they get. And if any program should be eliminated, it’s the federal matching fund program. A huge waste of taxes, much more than any other waste. And yet, no one addresses this, ever!
Then figure in the unions. A lot of states will not accept bids for road repair from non-union companies. That to me explains why they dig up a road in April, go to lunch until November, and won't finish the repair until the last minute in late december. Year after year after year...
Don't get me started.
I don't know about other states, but this happens every year here.
States that pull this crap do not need all the federal matching funding they get. And if any program should be eliminated, it’s the federal matching fund program. A huge waste of taxes, much more than any other waste. And yet, no one addresses this, ever!
Then figure in the unions. A lot of states will not accept bids for road repair from non-union companies. That to me explains why they dig up a road in April, go to lunch until November, and won't finish the repair until the last minute in late december. Year after year after year...
Don't get me started.
Last edited:
Hacp
Lifer
Unions ruining America again. How many times can they do it?
CycloWizard
Lifer
Or we could make real structural changes to the insanity and actually fix something.
jackschmittusa
Diamond Member
Jobs saved vs jobs created is nothing but a smoke screen. The end result is a person with a paycheck.
I live in Ohio and most construction comes to a halt in the winter. Workers get laid off by the thousands. This means THEY HAVE NO FRIGGIN' JOB! There are no guarantees of future employment. If there is no money for projects in the spring, they still have no job. If there are contracts, jobs will be created for them.
And claiming that "shovel ready" simply transfers funding sources is BS too. That may be the case in a minority of instances (which still frees money for other projects) but I read over and over again in the local paper about planned projects that sat idle until financing is arranged. Many times it is a government grant received after multiple submissions. Expanding the grant pool means more projects.
Whether the money is spent in a fashion that maximizes the value and benefit of the investment is certainly arguable, but it belongs in another discussion.
I live in Ohio and most construction comes to a halt in the winter. Workers get laid off by the thousands. This means THEY HAVE NO FRIGGIN' JOB! There are no guarantees of future employment. If there is no money for projects in the spring, they still have no job. If there are contracts, jobs will be created for them.
And claiming that "shovel ready" simply transfers funding sources is BS too. That may be the case in a minority of instances (which still frees money for other projects) but I read over and over again in the local paper about planned projects that sat idle until financing is arranged. Many times it is a government grant received after multiple submissions. Expanding the grant pool means more projects.
Whether the money is spent in a fashion that maximizes the value and benefit of the investment is certainly arguable, but it belongs in another discussion.
I work with state DOT's on a daily basis, they've been running full tilt since the stimulus trying to get their projects ready for the bid process and underway. This includes some rather enormous projects that have been planned for more than a decade and are now finally coming to fruition.
This is in spite of wage freezes than have spanned 4+ years and hiring freezes which don't allow new hires to replace retired/leaving workers so in many cases each worker is doing 3-4 jobs.
I can also tell you from first hand experience that the feds are looking very closely at how the stimulus dollars were and are being spent currently.
Contrast this with the hundreds of billions of dollars that are being wasted by the Pentagon, paying contractors knowing them to be crooked.
"The military paid a total of $285 billion to more than 100 contractors between 2007 and '09, even though those same companies were defrauding taxpayers in the same period, according to a new Defense Department report.
What's perhaps most shocking is that billions of dollars went to contractors who had been either suspended or debarred for misusing taxpayer funds. The Pentagon also spent $270 billion on 91 contractors involved in civil fraud cases that resulted in judgments of more than $1 million. Another $682 million went to 30 contractors convicted of criminal fraud. "
HuffPo
So you're barking up the wrong tree kids.
This is in spite of wage freezes than have spanned 4+ years and hiring freezes which don't allow new hires to replace retired/leaving workers so in many cases each worker is doing 3-4 jobs.
I can also tell you from first hand experience that the feds are looking very closely at how the stimulus dollars were and are being spent currently.
Contrast this with the hundreds of billions of dollars that are being wasted by the Pentagon, paying contractors knowing them to be crooked.
"The military paid a total of $285 billion to more than 100 contractors between 2007 and '09, even though those same companies were defrauding taxpayers in the same period, according to a new Defense Department report.
What's perhaps most shocking is that billions of dollars went to contractors who had been either suspended or debarred for misusing taxpayer funds. The Pentagon also spent $270 billion on 91 contractors involved in civil fraud cases that resulted in judgments of more than $1 million. Another $682 million went to 30 contractors convicted of criminal fraud. "
HuffPo
So you're barking up the wrong tree kids.
Siddhartha
Lifer
All I know is the main road I use for my daily commute received quite a bit of repair and enhancements which were funded by the stimulus package. I saw people working during one of the worst recessions in a long time and now my commute is easier because of the improvements.
So, I saw people working and I can see the benefits from the work that was done.
So, I saw people working and I can see the benefits from the work that was done.
Verify few of the bridge/overpass projects were started using the stimulus money.
The amount of funds was not enough (as you stated, they are very expensive) both in amount and time line. A state may have had 5 shovel ready projects to go, but only had funding for 4.
So if 5 were completed; does that mean a 5th company was created to do the job; existing companies were rewarded with the extra contract based on performance of the original job or that the job was handed out in sequence from the coming year.
I would suspect that state records will show that there was no 5th company.
Also, the company that tackled the 5th job (if not from out of state) either did the job afterwords in sequence or staggered based on phased completion as people came off on the initial project. the later is why you see projects that always seem to be partially complete; there is not crews currently available to continue that phase of the project. You need a whole crew of 5-10; not one or two.
A company is not going to hire a complete crew based on one project; they hire based on the projected need from the customers.
That's only fair if you lower their taxes accordingly.
Heh. How about we lower the amount of federal money they get in return for their tax dollars? Instead of 2 for 1, Mississippi could have 1:1, for example.
If blue states wanted to play hardball with their red state cousins, they'd make 'em squeal like the backward, ignorant & resentful little piggies they often seem to be...
That's the way it should be. Equalization payments in my country are just as fucked up as this.
Remember that the blue states are also dependant on the red states to survive.
CA - where do they get their water & power from.
Mississippi river, eastward. - Where is there fuel coming from. remember, when the refineries in TX & LA were shut down - gas spiked because of demand/availability not projections.
Plains - where is the majority of beef/grain coming from that the Blue states want to eat.
Economic hardball can play both ways.
I would suspect that the Blue states will squeal the loudest and cave the quickest.
CycloWizard
Lifer
You want a redistributive fiscal policy and they're giving it to you. If it's 1:1 in every state, then there is no reason for the federal government to be involved. You can't stand that, so you'll keep using this stupid argument.
Winner.
How fast do you think CA would be caving when the water and electricity being sent to them is shut off?
Those nasty polluting refineries/distro plants in LA and TX, being worked by all those redneck hick racist xenophobes the loliberls like to bleet about? No problem, they just won't send any product to the East and West coasts...mine as well cutoff Chicago too, that city traffic is a bitch.
All those smalltown hicks in the red states that provide all the beef, dairy, grain? Nah, just don't send any of it to the blue states.
What will the blue states do in retaliation? Stop producing movies? Not send any imported goods from China over? Super. Mexico can setup a port and get the goods through AZ and TX to the rest of the red states, and really, movies can be made anywhere.
What else to the Blue states really have to offer?
Lulz...Blue states don't have the balls, Everyone knows that...
Chuck
I don't really see it as damage though, more so as limiting damage. The Blue states elect people who want to take others money. If I'm a Red state, why would I want to be subject to the Blue states greed? If I'm seperated from them, then I'm not sending money to them. Greed problem solved. EDIT: Values problem solved.
Same deal for the Blue states/counties. Why have the anchor that is the Red states/counties, when they could just seperate and establish their Utopia. Perfect roads, 80% taxes for everyone, "free" healthcare, no/vastly limited police and border protection, retirement for people working 20 years that is unsustainable, literally everything Unionized: It's a Lib's wet dream come true! They just need to fund it, which, according to Jhhhhhhhhhhnnnnnnnn, will be stupidly easy once the cord is cut from those money sucking Red states/counties.
Right?
Chuck
K1052
Elite Member
PeshakJang
Platinum Member
I'd love to hear your reason for why this is the case. Please explain.
Typical Libthought. Those not among the elite, educated left are ignorant, inbred, undesirables... except when they are needed to progress an agenda... then they are "middle class America". Glad we have people such as yourself to so clearly articulate liberal ideologies.
theeedude
Lifer
If stimulus makes no difference, they should have no problem giving it up, even with all other things being equal.
theeedude
Lifer
Wrong-o. With the amount of tax money saved by cutting welfare to Republican states, blue states can build up all this capacity, or buy it from bankrupted red-staters much cheaper. It's not like we get fuel and electricity for free because we subsidize rednecks with our tax money.
PeshakJang
Platinum Member
http://www.idahostatesman.com/2010/09/19/1346603/liney-liney.html
Article that somewhat explains the disparity in tax paid/received that the left so often likes to trot out as clear proof that blue states are superior to the "rest" of America.
Key points-
High-income groups tend to be located in the "blue" states, like the NE states, CA, IL, etc., thus through the progressive tax rates, income tax paid per capita is higher in those states.
Corporations set up HQ in many of the "blue" states, increasing corporate taxes collected in those states.
Many of the "red" states have lower populations, in general, increasing the per-capita figures.
Disproportionate number of military installations located in "red" states.
High concentration of federally-owned land in many "red" states.
Many "red" states have lower youth populations and higher concentrations of older, SS/Medicare drawing individuals.
Most "red" states have high concentrations of agricultural land, and lower relative populations, thus increasing federal farming subsidies received per capita.
-----
So basically, it's another old-and-tired lib talking point to try and make "red" states look like leeches, only surviving due to the generous, compassionate "blue" states.
I guess that means blue states are the states of the rich, and the evil corporations... while the red states are the states of the poor, suffering, SS class, unemployed, middle/lower class.
Simultaneously degrade and insult them in one breath, hold them up as examples of the American middle class that the GOP wants to destroy in another.
LOLberals
Article that somewhat explains the disparity in tax paid/received that the left so often likes to trot out as clear proof that blue states are superior to the "rest" of America.
Key points-
High-income groups tend to be located in the "blue" states, like the NE states, CA, IL, etc., thus through the progressive tax rates, income tax paid per capita is higher in those states.
Corporations set up HQ in many of the "blue" states, increasing corporate taxes collected in those states.
Many of the "red" states have lower populations, in general, increasing the per-capita figures.
Disproportionate number of military installations located in "red" states.
High concentration of federally-owned land in many "red" states.
Many "red" states have lower youth populations and higher concentrations of older, SS/Medicare drawing individuals.
Most "red" states have high concentrations of agricultural land, and lower relative populations, thus increasing federal farming subsidies received per capita.
-----
So basically, it's another old-and-tired lib talking point to try and make "red" states look like leeches, only surviving due to the generous, compassionate "blue" states.
I guess that means blue states are the states of the rich, and the evil corporations... while the red states are the states of the poor, suffering, SS class, unemployed, middle/lower class.
Simultaneously degrade and insult them in one breath, hold them up as examples of the American middle class that the GOP wants to destroy in another.
LOLberals
PeshakJang
Platinum Member
Guess what will happen if you increase taxes on "the rich"?
The numbers become even more skewed.
Pick a side, any side. I guess when you base all your arguments on fantasy and dramatizations, you gotta keep your feet moving! 😀
theeedude
Lifer
completely devoid of content.
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