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new taxes

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IGBT

Lifer
Jul 16, 2001
17,725
52
91
cap/trade will bring about steep, punitive energy tax for ALL incomes.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
48,680
9,843
136
Originally posted by: IGBT
cap/trade will bring about steep, punitive energy tax for ALL incomes.
You only spout this particular talking point because, with your strong prohibitionist stance on ALL substances, you need to distract from the fact that you're strongly in favor of this new cig taxes.
 

IGBT

Lifer
Jul 16, 2001
17,725
52
91
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: IGBT
cap/trade will bring about steep, punitive energy tax for ALL incomes.
You only spout this particular talking point because, with your strong prohibitionist stance on ALL substances, you need to distract from the fact that you're strongly in favor of this new cig taxes.

well, when cap/trade makes electricity so expensive you can no longer afford it atleast you'll be able to have a smoke..outside of course.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
48,680
9,843
136
Originally posted by: IGBT
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: IGBT
cap/trade will bring about steep, punitive energy tax for ALL incomes.
You only spout this particular talking point because, with your strong prohibitionist stance on ALL substances, you need to distract from the fact that you're strongly in favor of this new cig taxes.

well, when cap/trade makes electricity so expensive you can no longer afford it atleast you'll be able to have a smoke..outside of course.
I rest my case.
 

Deeko

Lifer
Jun 16, 2000
30,215
11
81
Originally posted by: daniel49
Originally posted by: SP33Demon
Originally posted by: daniel49
Originally posted by: Deeko
A) This is old news, why are we reporting it as a new issue?
B) Obviously he was referring to income tax. Its cute that you attack semantics, because you can't attack substance. Everyone with even half an active brain knows he was talking about income tax. Try harder next time.
If money is going out of your wallet. does it really matter what kind of tax it is?
The result is the same.
Since you created this trolling sht-for-brains-of-a-thread, let's recap why you have the comprehension of an eleven day eroded corpse:

1) Title of thread says: "If you make under $250,000 you will see no increases"
2) You say: "So does that affect only the smokers that make over $250 k?"
3) Deeko explains the "250K with no increases" was clearly quoting income tax.
4) Apply for a brain here, it's the only place that can help you.
Another satisfied Obama fanboi! woot
I'm not an "Obama fanboi" in any way, shape, or form. The only "fanboi" here is you.
 

blahblah99

Platinum Member
Oct 10, 2000
2,689
0
0
I don't see why people are even arguing over this stupid tax on cigarettes as it has nothing to do with Obama's original income tax plan. Tax on consumables is going to affect EVERYONE, whether you clean toilets for $6.25 an hour or you're sitting on the 85th floor with your legs up on the desk making $50mill a year.

Just take a look at your cell phone bill. I'd bet 10% of the bill comes in the form of "taxes". Internet, telephone, utilities, heck even LCDs - same shit, just spun differently - ultimately it's a TAX no matter what its called on the line item. The low income earners will be burdened more than high income earners everytime there's an absolute tax increase, which is kind of an irony to Obama's tax plan if you ask me.

 

ccbadd

Senior member
Jan 19, 2004
456
0
76
Originally posted by: SP33Demon
Originally posted by: Skoorb
Originally posted by: SP33Demon
Originally posted by: Skoorb
If we're going to ignore the letter of the law as spelled out by Obama, and assume he was talking about only income, then we need to be honest about it. When he said people under $250k, he was speaking specifically of a group, which is the largest one in the US and saying "if you're in this group, you won't pay more taxes; i.e. the government won't take more of your money". To then take it in means other than income ignores the spirit of what he said.
I'd love to see pansies like you dropped into China where you have to sht in a hole for a year, I bet you'd have a whole new perspective on life when you get back.
Your attitude here is simply unhelpful. Anyway, that $13/week should really be taken as an insult by people of moderate or better intellect. This country is under crushing debt right now, to try and buy off some angst with a paltry $13 is simply insulting. Really, it's puerile.
It's actually $400, did you read the link? It's exactly what Obama promised, a tax cut and your income taxes aren't going up if <250K. If you want to argue about semantics on the internet from your cushy home/job/library then go for it, Obama didn't specifically say INCOME TAXES = I'm outraged! Please spare us the loss of IQ points and acknowledge the fact that if McCain was voted in you wouldn't be getting sht. In addition, if you think $13/week is an insult then don't take it. Put your money where you mouth is and post the pic here, otherwise it's all lip service/whining about things you should be thankful for (RE: my China comment).
"It's actually $400", commonly referred elsewhere to $13/week, as I mentioned. Why would I acknowledge that about McCain? I don't give a sh*t about him. I wanted Obama to win, and he did, so let's stay on point.

The idea that disagreeing with it means I have to give it back is not logical at all. Accepting it doesn't mean I agree with it anymore than my wife taking all our life savings out and saying I can either take half or she's going to take all and blow it on coke. Obviously I take what I can but would still prefer she leaves it all in the bank. Are you going to tell me that if I think the US debt is too high I should not take any of my tax return back and instead send all of my extra cash to the government? So then it can be disbursed among people like you? Come on.

I am not thankful for it because I see beyond my next pay check. It doesn't mean I need to visit China so that I'm thankful for what I have. What a silly notion.
No need to argue about the philosophical semantics of the tax cut, the bottom line is that if you're unhappy with it (for whatever reason) then just return it. The bottom line is that it could be much worse (McCain COULD have won and you wouldn't get a g.dam cent, you COULD broaden your horizons by going to China and discovering what real poverty is), and you should be thankful for what you have and not display American spoiled brat syndrome by bitching about something as insignificant as this topic. The bottom line is that your taxes aren't going up and you're getting $400. Play your xbox/PS3/videogames, eat some filet mignon with a nice imported beer, watch a movie, kiss your pretty wife and enjoy life because there are billions out there who would love to be Skoorb or even me (as abrasive as I can sometimes be).
You must live in a cave if you can't look at the implications of these types of taxes. Our government has no RIGHT to impose controls on us citizens via focused taxes. If it is legal, treat it the same as any other product. This one is simple, a lot of people dislike smoking as do I, but it sets a precedent for government to follow. When more money is needed, just pick something popular and tax the snot out of it. Only an idiot would argue in support for a democratic government to usurp the rights of its citizens and force and ideological view on an entire nation by force, and taxation is force!

By the way, I have been to a lot of oppressed countries and these policies that Obama is pushing leads to governments like China so take your $13.00 and get ready to turn your friends and family over for re-education. I would take McCain and no tax cut over Obama and his "Idiot-in-Charge" at the treasury who is trying to kill our economy forever any day.
 

ccbadd

Senior member
Jan 19, 2004
456
0
76
I just listened to an Obama speach on the radio while driving to work and he definitely said he would not raise "any form of tax" for families making < $250K or individuals making < $200K, not just income tax. However, if this is what is making you realize he is a liar, reality has already passed you by. It's getting easier to list the what he didn't lie about than listing what he did lie about.
That's bullshit. They can opt out of paying that tax just by quitting smoking.
We can also opt out of home ownership, quit working, cancel vacations, refrain from buying any toys (boats, RV, motorcycles), and all sorts of stuff. So, by your logic, all taxes are voluntary.
 

SP33Demon

Lifer
Jun 22, 2001
27,929
141
106
Originally posted by: Skoorb
Obama tax pledge up in smoke

This is an article from the AP.
Omg, Obama lied from Sept 12th! Allow me to hand out tissues. Obama lied about a complete pullout of troops from Iraq from last April, are you going to cry about that too? Plans change, this guy isn't a green rookie anymore and has been hit by the reality stick. The real question is, what kind of reality are many of you living in to think that NONE of your taxes will go up during any 4 year period? Pure naivete.

 

DealMonkey

Lifer
Nov 25, 2001
13,136
1
0
Originally posted by: daniel49
Text

So does that affect only the smokers that make over $250 k?

President Obama signed a law early in his administration to raise taxes from 39 cents to $1.01 per pack of cigarettes and from 19.5 cents to 50 cents per pound for chewing tobacco.

Not that I care, as I don't smoke. But I am sure there will be a lot more taxes coming our way. One more Obama lie.
Only a complete dumbshit would confuse cigarette taxes for federal income taxes.
 

ccbadd

Senior member
Jan 19, 2004
456
0
76
Originally posted by: DealMonkey
Originally posted by: daniel49
Text

So does that affect only the smokers that make over $250 k?

President Obama signed a law early in his administration to raise taxes from 39 cents to $1.01 per pack of cigarettes and from 19.5 cents to 50 cents per pound for chewing tobacco.

Not that I care, as I don't smoke. But I am sure there will be a lot more taxes coming our way. One more Obama lie.
Only a complete dumbshit would confuse cigarette taxes for federal income taxes.
Only a complete dumbshit would make that comment without reading the linked article. Obama clearly stated more than once that "no form of tax" would be increased not just federal income tax.
 

DealMonkey

Lifer
Nov 25, 2001
13,136
1
0
Originally posted by: ccbadd
Originally posted by: DealMonkey
Originally posted by: daniel49
Text

So does that affect only the smokers that make over $250 k?

President Obama signed a law early in his administration to raise taxes from 39 cents to $1.01 per pack of cigarettes and from 19.5 cents to 50 cents per pound for chewing tobacco.

Not that I care, as I don't smoke. But I am sure there will be a lot more taxes coming our way. One more Obama lie.
Only a complete dumbshit would confuse cigarette taxes for federal income taxes.
Only a complete dumbshit would make that comment without reading the linked article. Obama clearly stated more than once that "no form of tax" would be increased not just federal income tax.
The linked article said no such thing.
 

daniel49

Diamond Member
Jan 8, 2005
4,814
0
71
Originally posted by: DealMonkey
Originally posted by: ccbadd
Originally posted by: DealMonkey
Originally posted by: daniel49
Text

So does that affect only the smokers that make over $250 k?

President Obama signed a law early in his administration to raise taxes from 39 cents to $1.01 per pack of cigarettes and from 19.5 cents to 50 cents per pound for chewing tobacco.

Not that I care, as I don't smoke. But I am sure there will be a lot more taxes coming our way. One more Obama lie.
Only a complete dumbshit would confuse cigarette taxes for federal income taxes.
Only a complete dumbshit would make that comment without reading the linked article. Obama clearly stated more than once that "no form of tax" would be increased not just federal income tax.
The linked article said no such thing.
Well normally I am never as rude as to call someone a complete dumbshit, but if you insist the title is yours.
just for your benefit links to his speeches saying any tax are already in the thread.

regardless of that point, result is the same anyway. whats the difference if I slide around one tax increase and increase 30 others? net result is less money in the wallet. energy taxes coming where I get taxed for turning on my light switch. Im waiting for them to start taxing the air I breath next.
 

DealMonkey

Lifer
Nov 25, 2001
13,136
1
0
Originally posted by: daniel49
[Well normally I am never as rude as to call someone a complete dumbshit, but if you insist the title is yours.
just for your benefit links to his speeches saying any tax are already in the thread.

regardless of that point, result is the same anyway. whats the difference if I slide around one tax increase and increase 30 others? net result is less money in the wallet. energy taxes coming where I get taxed for turning on my light switch. Im waiting for them to start taxing the air I breath next.
You're confused and it's quite obvious. The president's position throughout the campaign was that he would not raise income or payroll taxes on families making less than $250,000. Income or payroll. This is a total stretch and you know it.
 

ccbadd

Senior member
Jan 19, 2004
456
0
76
Obama said: "I can make a firm pledge," he said in Dover, N.H., on Sept. 12. "Under my plan, no family making less than $250,000 a year will see any form of tax increase. Not your income tax, not your payroll tax, not your capital gains taxes, not any of your taxes."
 

DealMonkey

Lifer
Nov 25, 2001
13,136
1
0
Originally posted by: ccbadd
Obama said: "I can make a firm pledge," he said in Dover, N.H., on Sept. 12. "Under my plan, no family making less than $250,000 a year will see any form of tax increase. Not your income tax, not your payroll tax, not your capital gains taxes, not any of your taxes."
Whatever. You guys know damn well what he was talking about. Feel free to play dumb semantics games though. FFS, cigarette taxes are not even a mandatory tax. No one NEEDS to smoke. It's completely optional. Don't want to pay? Don't smoke. Duh.
 

jonks

Lifer
Feb 7, 2005
13,918
18
81
Originally posted by: ccbadd
Obama said: "I can make a firm pledge," he said in Dover, N.H., on Sept. 12. "Under my plan, no family making less than $250,000 a year will see any form of tax increase. Not your income tax, not your payroll tax, not your capital gains taxes, not any of your taxes."
He didn't raise taxes on "families making $250,000 a year", he raised taxes on SMOKERS. Yes, he said "any form of tax increase." He meant "any form of tax increase [on your income.] This is implied since the beginning of the sentence says "families making under 250k", thus he can only be referring to taxes that are targeted to affect that group, not any tax in the universe which people can opt in to. Keep reading to see why any other reading is illogical, and frankly, disingenuous.

Let's say Obama increased the luxury tax on automobiles costing over $100,000. Then, let's say a family making under $250,000 took out a third mortgage on their house and cobbled together all their savings and begged and borrowed money from friends. Using all that capital, they then went and bought a $150,000 car. Technically they are now paying a higher tax than they would have had they bought that car last year, since Obama raised the luxury tax. Has he broken his pledge not to raise that family's taxes? According to your logic, this constitutes a tax increase on families making 250k/yr.

So, would a general luxury tax increase on private jets or yachts that does not take into consideration anyone's income and which people making under $250,000 can theoretically purchase, constitute an increase in taxes on familes making $250,000 a year"? (this is rhetorical, but let's see you answer it anyway)

To be clear, I'm not arguing that a cigarette tax increase will not disproportionally affect the less affluent. We know that this is true. I'm merely pointing out the absurdity of claiming that this tax is an income tax or that Obama broke his pledge or was referring to anything other than taxes on income.

Daniel is correct that the addicted smoker won't care if it's a mandatory tax or not, but the smoker's regret is not the president's broken promise.
 

StageLeft

No Lifer
Sep 29, 2000
70,150
2
0
Originally posted by: SP33Demon
Originally posted by: Skoorb
Obama tax pledge up in smoke

This is an article from the AP.
Omg, Obama lied from Sept 12th! Allow me to hand out tissues. Obama lied about a complete pullout of troops from Iraq from last April, are you going to cry about that too? Plans change, this guy isn't a green rookie anymore and has been hit by the reality stick. The real question is, what kind of reality are many of you living in to think that NONE of your taxes will go up during any 4 year period? Pure naivete.
Correction to your sentiments. Naivete is thinking that taxes won't go up. I don't know that anybody here ever believed their taxes wouldn't go up. It doesn't mean they cannot call to task somebody who says they won't and then raises them.

 

jonks

Lifer
Feb 7, 2005
13,918
18
81
Originally posted by: Skoorb
It doesn't mean they cannot call to task somebody who says they won't and then raises them.
Agreed, but please respond to my post above yours.
 

SP33Demon

Lifer
Jun 22, 2001
27,929
141
106
Originally posted by: Skoorb
Originally posted by: SP33Demon
Originally posted by: Skoorb
Obama tax pledge up in smoke

This is an article from the AP.
Omg, Obama lied from Sept 12th! Allow me to hand out tissues. Obama lied about a complete pullout of troops from Iraq from last April, are you going to cry about that too? Plans change, this guy isn't a green rookie anymore and has been hit by the reality stick. The real question is, what kind of reality are many of you living in to think that NONE of your taxes will go up during any 4 year period? Pure naivete.
Correction to your sentiments. Naivete is thinking that taxes won't go up. I don't know that anybody here ever believed their taxes wouldn't go up. It doesn't mean they cannot call to task somebody who says they won't and then raises them.
Well, like I said, create a thread for him "lying" about completely pulling out of Iraq. Create a thread and complain about the rise in cellphone taxes he created. Just because a politician says something during a campaign doesn't ever mean you should believe it, especially regarding taxes. All in all the tax he was really talking about (income) isn't going up so I don't give a rat's ass about him "lying" or making a verbal "gaffe" about little taxes like this. If he raised income tax I'm sure you would see a lot of people up in arms.

 

daniel49

Diamond Member
Jan 8, 2005
4,814
0
71
Originally posted by: SP33Demon
Originally posted by: Skoorb
Originally posted by: SP33Demon
Originally posted by: Skoorb
Obama tax pledge up in smoke

This is an article from the AP.
Omg, Obama lied from Sept 12th! Allow me to hand out tissues. Obama lied about a complete pullout of troops from Iraq from last April, are you going to cry about that too? Plans change, this guy isn't a green rookie anymore and has been hit by the reality stick. The real question is, what kind of reality are many of you living in to think that NONE of your taxes will go up during any 4 year period? Pure naivete.
Correction to your sentiments. Naivete is thinking that taxes won't go up. I don't know that anybody here ever believed their taxes wouldn't go up. It doesn't mean they cannot call to task somebody who says they won't and then raises them.
Well, like I said, create a thread for him "lying" about completely pulling out of Iraq. Create a thread and complain about the rise in cellphone taxes he created. Just because a politician says something during a campaign doesn't ever mean you should believe it, especially regarding taxes. All in all the tax he was really talking about (income) isn't going up so I don't give a rat's ass about him "lying" or making a verbal "gaffe" about little taxes like this. If he raised income tax I'm sure you would see a lot of people up in arms.
Change I can believe in was another lie then...thx
 

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