New study, more guns = LESS safe

bradly1101

Diamond Member
May 5, 2013
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I know what all you gun advocates will say to try to tear down this study by a Johns Hopkins researcher, but I'd rather hear from people who are concerned by this.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-26222578

"That upward trajectory did not happen with homicides that did not involve guns; it did not occur to any neighbouring state; the national trend was doing the opposite – it was trending downward; and it was not specific to one or two localities – it was, for the most part, state-wide," he told BBC News.


The team said it took account of changes that occurred in policing levels and incarceration rates, trends in burglaries, and statistically controlled for other possible confounding factors such as shifts in unemployment and poverty.



What was stark, added Prof Webster, was the rise in the number of handguns that subsequently found their way into the hands of criminals.
The team counted a doubling of handguns shortly after sale being recovered from scenes of crimes or from criminals.


"This study is compelling confirmation that weaknesses in firearm laws lead to deaths from gun violence," said Prof Webster.
 

Annisman*

Golden Member
Aug 20, 2010
1,931
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America has guns, lots of them. And if anybody tried to take them away there would be anarchy. Therefore even if these kind of studies were true, if you're a law abiding American citizen a gun is not a bad idea, if only because so many criminals or future criminals have them.
 

TerryMathews

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
11,464
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My problem with this study is the researcher is assuming these events are related based on time. It didn't appear they did any deep analysis on those murders in Missouri.

Correlation is not causation
 

z1ggy

Lifer
May 17, 2008
10,010
66
91
Stats show over all, crime has been going down in the US for the past few decades. Stats also shows gun ownership is consistently going up during the same time.

So... yeah...

No links to said stats because this thread has been done 83429434 times before in this forum.
 

bradly1101

Diamond Member
May 5, 2013
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Geosurface

Diamond Member
Mar 22, 2012
5,773
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Let's see, I've got people telling me their studies show gun ownership reduces crime over here, and people saying it increases crime over here... who to believe? hmmm, who to believe...

Oh wait, I remember, I don't give a fuck who is right because it's a freedom guaranteed by our bill of rights. Period.
 

Matt1970

Lifer
Mar 19, 2007
12,320
3
0
1012266_10152231894774271_610848874_n.jpg


Seeing as how murders actually went down by 67 from 2008 to 2012, I find it hard to believe that gun murder actually went up by 60.

http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/mocrimn.htm
 
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Daverino

Platinum Member
Mar 15, 2007
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That has been thoroughly debunked time and time again. It's an apples to oranges comparisons because the crimes considered 'violent' in the UK are not the same ones considered 'violent' in the US. The violent crime rates are about the same, as you'd expect. The big difference of course is that in the US you tend to die because you get shot, where the UK you go to the hospital with a black eye.

You go on fucking that chicken though.
 

her209

No Lifer
Oct 11, 2000
56,336
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Grapes and bananas

In the FBI’s Uniform Crime Reporting (UCR) Program, violent crime is composed of four offenses: murder and nonnegligent manslaughter, forcible rape, robbery, and aggravated assault. Violent crimes are defined in the UCR Program as those offenses which involve force or threat of force.

Violent crime covers a wide range of offences, from minor assaults such as pushing and shoving
that result in no physical harm through to serious incidents of wounding and murder. Robbery, an
offence in which violence or the threat of violence is used during a theft (or attempted theft) is not
included in the police recorded violence against the person offence group as it is reported separately
in the robbery section, but it is included within CSEW violence.
 

KB

Diamond Member
Nov 8, 1999
5,406
389
126
I would love to see the numbers they used and read their methodology. Looking at the numbers here:

http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/mocrimn.htm

Its difficult to find a real trend in the MO data. Although in 2008 the murder count does spike 60+, it actually looks like it is part of a trend upward starting in 2003, far earlier than the law change. This makes me think it is perhaps caused by greater economic inequality or a changing demographic. Then in 2009, the number spikes back downward to 2007 numbers and holds steady.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,544
6,705
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Violence is caused by violent childhoods, by fear and lack of self respect. All these things are aggravated by conservative brain defective tough love thinking, the idea that poverty is earned by lack of self effort and punishment for failure is deserved. Conservatives want to keep what they earn and believe you should die if you try to take it, but all of their policies and thinking creates the very needs and wants that foster such needs to take.

There is only one kind of moral believe that makes people decent and it isn't fear of punishment or threat that you will be killed if you harm somebody. It is love of self that makes people treat others well. The kind of society conservatives want to create is a Gestapo state, as state of authoritarian worship of the demanding, strict, disciplinary father. The notions of nurture and inner self expression are crushed by the demands of conformity. The result is a culture of robots, seething with repressed rage and longing for the loving mother who is consciously despised. The gun is an external manifestation of the authoritarian hand. It is worshiped by the patriarchal as a symbol of dominance and used in revenge for loss, not of worldly things and family, but loss of self respect, the paranoid need for masculine power, the true form of which was branded out by the stamp of conformity.
 

Doppel

Lifer
Feb 5, 2011
13,306
3
0
Violence is caused by violent childhoods, by fear and lack of self respect. All these things are aggravated by conservative brain defective tough love thinking, the idea that poverty is earned by lack of self effort and punishment for failure is deserved. Conservatives want to keep what they earn and believe you should die if you try to take it, but all of their policies and thinking creates the very needs and wants that foster such needs to take.

There is only one kind of moral believe that makes people decent and it isn't fear of punishment or threat that you will be killed if you harm somebody. It is love of self that makes people treat others well. The kind of society conservatives want to create is a Gestapo state, as state of authoritarian worship of the demanding, strict, disciplinary father. The notions of nurture and inner self expression are crushed by the demands of conformity. The result is a culture of robots, seething with repressed rage and longing for the loving mother who is consciously despised. The gun is an external manifestation of the authoritarian hand. It is worshiped by the patriarchal as a symbol of dominance and used in revenge for loss, not of worldly things and family, but loss of self respect, the paranoid need for masculine power, the true form of which was branded out by the stamp of conformity.
Your mother hurt you very, very deeply. We all can see this. Have you ever told her you forgive her?