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New Star Wars: The Old Republic trailer
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datalink7
Lifer
I disagree somewhat. I play LOTRO and follow the story quests. I even continue to do them even though I am max level and won't get any xp for them. You constantly hear shout outs to do the parts of the quests that require grouping, even though the rewards won't get you anything and you wont' get any xp.
A good storyline can be a lot of fun to follow. Some people don't like it, but I'd say the vast majority of LOTRO players have followed the storyline and continue to do so even when there aren't any "real rewards" anymore for it.
BenSkywalker
Diamond Member
My assertions were based on the reality that has been explained.
You mean max level when you say end game, not actual end game. What percentage of people in WoW have dropped Agalon?
Because they set a level cap. That is the only reason. What percentage of guilds ever ran Naxx40 or Sunwell?
None of the current MMOs have a story worth wiping your ass with.
The shitty gameplay mechanics lately more then anything. Then you have almost no content for characters to do at max level, and the horrificly broken pvp system. Have multiple Tier8 toons here, WoW is a flat out bad game, the only thing it is good for is killing time.
Really? What about in Eve? Sorry, just because Blizzard sucks horribly at making decent content doesn't mean everyone else in the industry is going to be the same way.
I have never suffered massive head trauma nor was I born with severe mental retardation so you will have to explain how having terrible gameplay with no story makes a game more fun then having terrible gameplay with almost no story and what the hell that has to do with having good gameplay paired with a good story. My apologies for not being a profound idiot.
What that proves is that on the norm people have been playing for longer then it takes to get a character to max level, that's it.
You are wrong. I agree that I don't want a central story but I do want story elements, quests, areas where I can uncover the history, etc. Lots of people liked the leveling game but once you've done it more than a couple times it is repetitive and what you really want is to bring your latest character up to where your last character was.
Some people will race to the end game, some people like to meander up to max level. Some will do pvp, some pve, some raid, some solo all the way but to say NO ONE likes playing and call it fact is laughable wrong. Maybe you didn't enjoy the story elements but I did the first time through as did my girlfriend.
Even given it is bioware I have low expectations of this game MMOs aren't, nor should they be, single player games. Hopefully they are working within the framework of a fun multiplayer game instead of a fun single player game with other people around.
bunnyfubbles
Lifer
I can see one of three things happening with this game
1. its another lame MMO
2. its not actually a true MMO, they're just calling it that for obvious monetary reasons
3. it changes the industry as one of the best video games ever (ie they somehow make a truly immersive MMO with an excellent story)
I've ordered them in terms of likelihood, however I hope its one of the latter reasons
these graphics look marginally better than KOTOR1 and 2 (if anything they look tweaked to be more cartoony), and those games are ~6 years old...
1. its another lame MMO
2. its not actually a true MMO, they're just calling it that for obvious monetary reasons
3. it changes the industry as one of the best video games ever (ie they somehow make a truly immersive MMO with an excellent story)
I've ordered them in terms of likelihood, however I hope its one of the latter reasons
these graphics look marginally better than KOTOR1 and 2 (if anything they look tweaked to be more cartoony), and those games are ~6 years old...
Has anyone realized sometimes the graphics polish up before the games get to live? 😵
Look at WoW beta for goodness' sakes! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZr0nclFSA0
Look at WoW beta for goodness' sakes! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZr0nclFSA0
Arglebargle
Senior member
But you see, in my opinion, the first iteration of SWG was a poorly set up and developed game. It just didn't get in your way as much as the later versions.
It is a testament to SOE that they could take Star Wars, and mess the game up so bad that people wouldn't play in droves. Doesn't mean the original was good, however.
Sylvanas
Diamond Member
WoW added new shadows and maybe a few textures since release but that's it and it took years- going around the 1-60 zones looks largely like it did at release.
I'm not too bothered with the graphics as they are good enough for me- I just hope it plays well. Seeing as Bioware has 3 projects on the go, and the recent EA acquisition- it's crunch time to see if they can still do it with their evil overlords watching over their shoulder.
bunnyfubbles
Lifer
It all depends on how close it is to release. The fact that they're showing it off on a highly polished promotional home website tells me it isn't going to change much.
the unknown
Senior member
Personally, I think it's number 2, which is fine with me. The main story line will be completely singleplayer with some of those "crossing-over" style missions where your there are multiple objectives for different classes. I'm basing this off of Age of Conan. Your "destiny" quests were all solo and instanced, and then you had the main world to explore and do side quests/grind. Hopefully, there will be less/no grind and mostly story to level up, with the world being out there to explore and gain better equipment. And of course Bioware said there will be an end game (raiding, guilding ect) not unlike most mmos out there. I don't have my hopes up with these kinds of games anymore, but I will certainly try this one for the single player experience alone.
Farmer
Diamond Member
I agree with the contentions of many others: why did you make this an MMO? While I, like bunnyfubbles, hope for a "truly immersive MMO with an excellent story," that just seems almost impossible. The fact that it has to be an MMO precludes the exact things that made the previous KOTORs great: tightly linear and controlled story sequences with a few different possible branches, ensuring a high amount of immersion.
From my experience, a BioWare RPG is just the tiniest bit removed from a novel or a movie, just enough to add the interaction needed to make the player feel like their decisions make an impact on the outcome of the story, and obviously the mechanics necessary to make it a game (i.e., D&D rules). The leveling system in, say, KOTOR, isn't a measure of your success, but instead just something to tell you if you haven't spent the amount of time the developers intended you to in a certain area.
An MMORPG is totally different: IMO they are built to take advantage of a player's desire to reach arbitrary goals like a "max level," or some certain rare items*. I can't see how you can fuse the two, since one detracts from the other; I don't know, maybe they managed to, I hope they manage to do it well.
The Star Wars license does give you a great boost though, as it makes the game universe seem far more authentic and developed: while I thoroughly enjoyed KOTOR1 and played through KOTOR2, I couldn't get into Mass Effect as much.
As for the graphics, yeah, I feel like Mass Effect looked better.
*This formula works: I played Diablo 2 for the longest time, and though D2 isn't MMO, the premise is the same. But once you get to lvl 90 or thereabouts and have all the items in the world, I find myself doing nothing enjoyable but rushing other characters.
From my experience, a BioWare RPG is just the tiniest bit removed from a novel or a movie, just enough to add the interaction needed to make the player feel like their decisions make an impact on the outcome of the story, and obviously the mechanics necessary to make it a game (i.e., D&D rules). The leveling system in, say, KOTOR, isn't a measure of your success, but instead just something to tell you if you haven't spent the amount of time the developers intended you to in a certain area.
An MMORPG is totally different: IMO they are built to take advantage of a player's desire to reach arbitrary goals like a "max level," or some certain rare items*. I can't see how you can fuse the two, since one detracts from the other; I don't know, maybe they managed to, I hope they manage to do it well.
The Star Wars license does give you a great boost though, as it makes the game universe seem far more authentic and developed: while I thoroughly enjoyed KOTOR1 and played through KOTOR2, I couldn't get into Mass Effect as much.
As for the graphics, yeah, I feel like Mass Effect looked better.
*This formula works: I played Diablo 2 for the longest time, and though D2 isn't MMO, the premise is the same. But once you get to lvl 90 or thereabouts and have all the items in the world, I find myself doing nothing enjoyable but rushing other characters.
ViviTheMage
Lifer
What a huge let down...
Beev
Diamond Member
Looks good to me. Alpha quality graphics don't bother me a bit since they'll get better. The fact that it seems so single player-y is GOOD to me. The game doesn't need to be an MMO in the sense that you're always hanging around 100+ real people. Make it one or two and let me play the game as a generic coop game and I'm set.
AyashiKaibutsu
Diamond Member
They'd be like oblivion full of tripe and repetitive dialogue.
BenSkywalker
Diamond Member
Based on what we have currently heard about the development of this game it sounds like total development costs are likely to be in the ~$100Million dollar range. The only type of game that is going to secure that kind of funding is a MMO. It is the only title that has a reasonable shot at generating the level of revenue required to warrant that kind of investment.
As far as the graphics for this game go, I honestly am not expecting a big improvement over what we see here, and am not really all that worried about it. The developers have stated rather clearly they are going for a more cell shaded(toonish) look then photo realism for several different reasons. Unfortunately, inside a ship isn't going to be a great place to display the artistic avenues this can open up, but even if the whole game looked like what they showed in that video it wouldn't bother me as long as performance was in line(ie- I'd much rather have an ugly fast MMO then a pretty and slow one). Maybe it will look a lot better and still run great and I'll be thrilled, but it really doesn't make that big of a difference.
I don't see why they need be exclusive. Even using currently available MMOs, I'm sure every DK and DPS Warrior is dieing to get their hands on Frostmourne, which is an arbitrary goal, but that doesn't mean the entire path to downing Arathas doesn't have a rather extensive backstory to it(predating WoW by several years actually). The way in which WoW utilizes its' storyline is as a side note for those interested for the most part, but I actually thought that how they integrated it into the entire storyline throughout all of Wrath was a rather huge improvement over how they did things in the past. I am not a big fan of WoW atm, haven't been for a while, but them adding an Arathas saga that unfolded as you leveled certainly made for a far more immersive story arch even if at the end of the day the biggest concern ends up being who has the DKP to pick up Frostmourne 😉 Another example in WoW is the DK starting area, I think most people would agree that it is a far more effective introduction to your class and why you are the way you are then any of the other classes. A sporadic class quest here or there pales in comparison to a dedicated and flushed out story line. The prospect of playing through to max level involved in such a story line for a particular class is certainly very appealing to me. Arbitrary goal or not, having an involving storyline helps getting to that goal an enjoyable experience instead of a tedious grind, that is a profound change from most MMOs.
I guess that depends on how much credit you want to give Bioware. Because they haven't let me down yet, I'm hoping for a 3 and will be let down if they come up short of that. The only question I have left atm is their end game content, I know that has been under development for some time but they seem to keep the team they have working on it locked up only giving us vague details of the direction they are planning on taking(more large scale battles then one big foe).
It's not *all* MMOs that are built that way -- Eve isn't -- it's Blizzard's MMO. This shouldn't be surprising, as Blizzard made the Diablo series. Bio is about making story and NPC interaction important in unlikely places (a Sonic the Hedgehog game!?), and they've had success so far.
RyanPaulShaffer
Diamond Member
Fixed that for ya.
waffleironhead
Diamond Member
There are so many people knocking the graphics. lets look around for some good eye candy games that were boring as hell to play. I would rather have immersive content and story line than eye candy any day.
Mem
Lifer
SWG IMHO was one of the best MMORPGs before NGE, class selection where you could pick parts from different classes was unique back then,crafting was always in demand and we had some of the famous crafters on our server and to be honest I had the most fun in SWG back then then any other MMORPG(I would still be playing it if it was not for NGE),sure it was not perfect and you can find players that hated it but that goes for any MMORPG including WoW etc..
I have played 90% of them including WoW,Vanguard,EQ2,Dark&Light,Anarchy Online,Tabula Rasa,Eve,Dungeon Runners,Archlord,Warhammer Online and dozen more etc...
TOR has a lot to live up too,not everybody will be happy since no MMORPG ever made has been able to please all the players.....I don't care if its Bioware or any other company,end of the day its the final product that counts and most TOR fans have high expectations.
I do hope they release a new single player version of KOTOR ,that way everybody will be happy since TOR MMORPG is really for a specific audience of gamers/players.
I could only watch the video without sound (at work), so forgive me if I missed anything, but I don't get the graphics hate.
they seem good enough to me... it's an MMO, not a console game; they've got to design their game to run decently on as many systems as possible if they want to appeal to a broad audience.
as long as they reach a minimum threshold, graphics have never been a major selling point with me, and this game seems to reach that minimum threshold.
they seem good enough to me... it's an MMO, not a console game; they've got to design their game to run decently on as many systems as possible if they want to appeal to a broad audience.
as long as they reach a minimum threshold, graphics have never been a major selling point with me, and this game seems to reach that minimum threshold.
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