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New regulations on ivory sale has some worried

UglyCasanova

UglyCasanova

Lifer
Tiny violins play for those effected


US legal trade of old pieces of ivory is hardly the driving force of the decimation of elephants/rhinos/etc (China, you get that honor), but I say good riddance of any of it. Ancient pieces are nice in museums, but an active marketplace even if it is old pieces only legitimizes the illicit trade of fresh ivory.
 
There are a lot of legitimate antiques that have ivory in them. You can't just go back and ban them, however much you want to stop the sale of ivory...
 
RampantAndroid said:
There are a lot of legitimate antiques that have ivory in them. You can't just go back and ban them, however much you want to stop the sale of ivory...
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Apparently they can.

To illustrate the confusion ahead, experts gave the example of what would happen under the new regulations if someone attempted the interstate sale of a 100-year-old Steinway piano with ivory keys. Such a sale has long been permissible, because the piano qualified as an antique that contained ivory imported long before the mid-1970s, when officials began proscribing the material.
But the new regulations would prohibit such a sale unless the owner could prove the ivory in the keys had entered the country through one of 13 American ports authorized to sanction ivory goods.
Given that none of those entry points had such legal power until 1982, the regulations would make it virtually impossible to legitimize the piano’s ivory, the experts said. That predicament would apply to virtually all the antique ivory in the country, barring millions of Americans from ever selling items as innocuous as teacups, dice or fountain pens.
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Idiotic.
 
Well this renders TH's ivory dildo collection worthless.

Seriously though these regulations go far beyond what would be remotely considered fair.
 
brycejones said:
Well this renders TH's ivory dildo collection worthless.

Seriously though these regulations go far beyond what would be remotely considered fair.
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This happens more often then you think.

Gibson was raided because the feds thought they had illegal wood. even if that wood was bought decades ago, before any sort of certification was required. now having it can lend you in jail
 
BoberFett said:
As with any desired product, making the sale of the product doesn't eliminate demand, it simply drives it underground and creates black markets which don't follow ANY regulation.
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I've certainly noticed that effect. Just yesterday, I was walking in a seedy part of town and someone tried to sell me a Steinway baby grand.

Incidentally, we're always up in arms in this country about passing laws that disproportionately target the poor. It's nice to see the politicians turn around and pass some unpopular legislation which exclusively targets the wealthy. And the occasional poverty-stricken ivory collector, I suppose...
 
Atomic Playboy said:
I've certainly noticed that effect. Just yesterday, I was walking in a seedy part of town and someone tried to sell me a Steinway baby grand.

Incidentally, we're always up in arms in this country about passing laws that disproportionately target the poor. It's nice to see the politicians turn around and pass some unpopular legislation which exclusively targets the wealthy. And the occasional poverty-stricken ivory collector, I suppose...
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stupid laws are stupid. no matter who they target, they should not be passed.
 
Atomic Playboy said:
I've certainly noticed that effect. Just yesterday, I was walking in a seedy part of town and someone tried to sell me a Steinway baby grand.

Incidentally, we're always up in arms in this country about passing laws that disproportionately target the poor. It's nice to see the politicians turn around and pass some unpopular legislation which exclusively targets the wealthy. And the occasional poverty-stricken ivory collector, I suppose...
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If you're an idiot (and clearly you are) then just continue to believe there's no black market for expensive items.
 
BoberFett said:
I'm an animal lover, but conservationists are often their own worst enemies.

As with any desired product, making the sale of the product doesn't eliminate demand, it simply drives it underground and creates black markets which don't follow ANY regulation.

http://www.wildlifeextra.com/go/world/ivory-poaching.html#cr
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Those black markets already exist and never did follow any regulation. They are 'resistant' to new players. Laws like this just keep honest people honest. Personally, I think our money would be better spent hiring the Legion as game wardens in African preserves.
 
MagnusTheBrewer said:
Those black markets already exist and never did follow any regulation. They are 'resistant' to new players. Laws like this just keep honest people honest. Personally, I think our money would be better spent hiring the Legion as game wardens in African preserves.
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really how does this law keep honest people honest?

I believe my family has in terrible condition a piano with ivory keys. how did we come about having it?

Well, my uncle bought a house 20-30 years ago that had old stuff left in it, including this piano.

We have no idea of the true origins of this piano, we probably have no desire to sell it. But now the government is going to say we cant sell this junky piano because the keys are made of something they no longer can be?

What problem is being solved here?
 
michal1980 said:
really how does this law keep honest people honest?

I believe my family has in terrible condition a piano with ivory keys. how did we come about having it?

Well, my uncle bought a house 20-30 years ago that had old stuff left in it, including this piano.

We have no idea of the true origins of this piano, we probably have no desire to sell it. But now the government is going to say we cant sell this junky piano because the keys are made of something they no longer can be?

What problem is being solved here?
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Haven't you heard? Honest people are defined as anyone who keeps within the law. Ask any corporation.

Our misunderstanding comes not from a clash of ideas but, from different cultural and age perspectives.
 
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MagnusTheBrewer said:
Haven't you heard? Honest people are defined as anyone who keeps within the law. Ask any corporation.

Our misunderstanding comes not from a clash of ideas but, from different cultural and age perspectives.
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So if a law passes that says its acceptable to beat Magnusthebrewer daily, you'd have no problems with it.
 
BoberFett said:
I'm an animal lover, but conservationists are often their own worst enemies.

As with any desired product, making the sale of the product **ILLEGAL** doesn't eliminate demand, it simply drives it underground and creates black markets which don't follow ANY regulation.

http://www.wildlifeextra.com/go/world/ivory-poaching.html#cr
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FTFY. But I agree.

You could actually do more good by allowing these animals to have their horns or tusks farmed legally without killing the animal then keeping this stupid ban.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KvmzRy3isco
 
MagnusTheBrewer said:
Those black markets already exist and never did follow any regulation. They are 'resistant' to new players. Laws like this just keep honest people honest. Personally, I think our money would be better spent hiring the Legion as game wardens in African preserves.
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Remove elephant tusks and rhino horns and insert marijuana (or alcohol for that matter) and you've just created a pro-prohibition argument against pot (or alcohol) that is full of holes.
 
3D replicators are really coming along nicely. Sure, a polymer based trinket, doodad or gun handle isn't as nice as an ivory one,.. but, the 3D printers can make things as detailed as collectors want.

The point being; all is not lost,.. if they can replicate a human skull, they can replicate your ivory double headed dildo of Barry and Joe.

Lets move on and embrace technology - instead of running around carving up living creatures to make things pretty.
 
BoberFett said:
I'm an animal lover, but conservationists are often their own worst enemies.

As with any desired product, making the sale of the product doesn't eliminate demand, it simply drives it underground and creates black markets which don't follow ANY regulation.

http://www.wildlifeextra.com/go/world/ivory-poaching.html#cr
Click to expand...

Unless..... the punishment becomes too great. If there was a death penalty in China for the mere possession of ivory, this problem would go away. Who would risk death for a stupid ivory trinket? Target the consumers....
 
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