New Orleans Still Needs Help

[jimkyser]

Originally posted by: loup garou
In other news, my parents just got their trailer last week. No power hookups yet though.

Glad that they got a trailer. Can't they just hook the trailer into the services at your parent's house? That's the way they were doing it in Gulfport and Biloxi when I was down there last week. Or haven't they restored power and water to the section of town where your parents live?

 

[Ronstang]

Originally posted by: loup garou

Originally posted by: rahvin
not improve levees that keep a city dry that is below sea level

Yes, it is, considering New Orleans is protected by federally installed and maintained levees that are supposed to be able to withstand a Category 3 hurricane, which Katrina was when it made landfall and they failed.

Unfortunately for the residents of New Orleans the state and local governments of LA are not only inept but completely corrupt. There was federal money being given to upkeep and even upgrade the levees but the corrupt governments of LA were spending the money elsewhere on things like tourist attractions and things to increase revenue...instead of working on the levees like the money was INTENDED. Because of this the Federal government stopped sending money to a corrupt sinkhole of a state that would not use the money as intended.

 

[loup garou]

Originally posted by: jimkyser

Originally posted by: loup garou
In other news, my parents just got their trailer last week. No power hookups yet though.

Glad that they got a trailer. Can't they just hook the trailer into the services at your parent's house? That's the way they were doing it in Gulfport and Biloxi when I was down there last week. Or haven't they restored power and water to the section of town where your parents live?

They have power in the area (about 1 mile from 17th St Canal), but I think they have to sink a pole and run a line directly to it. My parents still aren't 100% sure what they're doing with that property right now, they're working on my grandmother's house right now...you can use a deep cycle battery to run the lights at least, my dad has a couple from his boat he's been swapping out. They're just staying their occasionally right now, they're renting a place in Baton Rouge that's "home."

 

[rahvin]

Originally posted by: jimkyser
No, the ACE was responsible for the levees. The had a block of money to improve them that wass taken away a year or two ago.

Just because there is money allocated does NOT mean they are responsible for them. The feds aren't repsonible for anything other than the designated interstate system but the feds still allocate money to build, maintain and repair other roads. None of it's an entitlement, NO is responsible for the maintenance of it's levee's outside the ones on the Mississppi, ACE is only responsible for navigable chanels and that's only to keep them navigable.

Originally posted by: jimkyser
And the line about being behind on insurance is just crap. I was just down there for a week helping people who the insurance companies are screwing over fix there houses. The insurance companies paid an 86 year old lady on a fixed income, who paid her insurance premiums on time for 40+ years, $623.14 to cover damage to her house in Biloxi, MS. The damage ruined all of the flooring, all of the walls, all of the applicances and a portion of the roof. Then they expect her to drive to Hattiesburg if she want to protest. The loser agency doesn't even dare show their face in town.

And what exactly did her policy say? Did she have flood insurance or is she applying for coverage for wind damage? The devil is in the details, unfortunately for her the limit of the insurances companies liability may have been for only the damage done by the wind. If you feel so bad for her, help bail her out yourself.

Originally posted by: jimkyser
Then there was the family in Gulfport. The hurricane damaged their roof. Water got into the attic and soaked all of the ceiling wallboard. Then it collapsed and flooded all that was below it. They have estimates to repair the house and they're all over $60k. The insurance company wants to give them $12k.

Estimates are likely heavilly inflated right now, the insurance companies aren't responsible for inflated prices. And again, it depends on what the policy says their coverage is. Although the circumstances are tragic I don't want insurance companies throwing money around like it's going out of style, that will raise EVERYONE's insurance.

 

[thecoroner]

Unfortunately for the residents of New Orleans the state and local governments of LA are not only inept but completely corrupt. There was federal money being given to upkeep and even upgrade the levees but the corrupt governments of LA were spending the money elsewhere on things like tourist attractions and things to increase revenue...instead of working on the levees like the money was INTENDED. Because of this the Federal government stopped sending money to a corrupt sinkhole of a state that would not use the money as intended.

Many politicians here are corrupt, but not all of them. Even the ones who are corrupt still want to do a good job. I'll tell you point blank our governnor sucked. Lousiana faced a hard choice in the last election- an Indian man or a Cajun woman. Both were minorities and both were Catholic. That was the first election Louisiana had to pick a minority- something that must have been very hard for some of its citizens. Anyway, the majority of people decided to elect a governor who cried on national television before the hurricane!

Anyway, whether the politicans are corrupt or not we still deserve money. Where do you think half the money we put into Iraq does? I heard a story on the evening news today talking about corrupt contractors. They are being overpaid for bad work. In an Iraq hospital, an elevator installed a week earlier collapsed, killing its occupants.

You can't punish everyone for the actions of a few.

 

[Orignal Earl]

Originally posted by: thecoroner
I am a New Orleans area resident and while people have done a lot to help out Katrina survivors, not nearly enough aid has been given. This is mostly the thought of the federal government of course.

Hang in there buddy, I've emailed the Canadian Federal Gov and asked for help for the people of New Orleans. Maybe they can get in contact with Cuba and see if they can help too. It's too bad so much help has already been refused.

 

[Orignal Earl]

Yes, I posted that in hopes to embarrass all those arguing over money and who is responsible to help

 

[rahvin]

Originally posted by: Orignal Earl
Yes, I posted that in hopes to embarrass all those arguing over money and who is responsible to help

You aren't embarassing anyone but yourself. Many of us have contributed significantly and we don't need juvenile candians attempting to lecture us.

 

[Ronstang]

Originally posted by: thecoroner

Unfortunately for the residents of New Orleans the state and local governments of LA are not only inept but completely corrupt. There was federal money being given to upkeep and even upgrade the levees but the corrupt governments of LA were spending the money elsewhere on things like tourist attractions and things to increase revenue...instead of working on the levees like the money was INTENDED. Because of this the Federal government stopped sending money to a corrupt sinkhole of a state that would not use the money as intended.

Many politicians here are corrupt, but not all of them. Even the ones who are corrupt still want to do a good job. I'll tell you point blank our governnor sucked. Lousiana faced a hard choice in the last election- an Indian man or a Cajun woman. Both were minorities and both were Catholic. That was the first election Louisiana had to pick a minority- something that must have been very hard for some of its citizens. Anyway, the majority of people decided to elect a governor who cried on national television before the hurricane!

Anyway, whether the politicans are corrupt or not we still deserve money. Where do you think half the money we put into Iraq does? I heard a story on the evening news today talking about corrupt contractors. They are being overpaid for bad work. In an Iraq hospital, an elevator installed a week earlier collapsed, killing its occupants.

You can't punish everyone for the actions of a few.

The point was YOUR government had the funds for the levees and basically stole them to pay for what they WANTED and continually cried the levees needed money......but the money was there, until the Federal government figured out what was going on and stopped the flow of money. The state of the levees at the time of Katrina is the fault of the government of LA and NO and yet now they want even more money to fix a problem that could have been averted if they had not STOLEN the original money and spent it on the levees like intended. The buck has to stop somewhere. Blame YOUR governments and ask them what they are going to do to solve the problems they basically created with their thievery and downright dereliction of duty.

I for one feel the levees need to be dynamited and let the water settle where it wants to naturally.....then go find some dry land and start over. Building a city below sea level is a farce at best. All governments and experts knew NO was on borrowed time. LA's government knew it as well and STILL diverted (stole is much more accurate) funds from the levees so the fault for most of this disaster lies with them and in my opinion their actions are criminal in more ways than one.

 

[JinLien]

NO would have a lot more help from the US government and citizens if the major is a murderous tyrant.

 

[Uhtrinity]

When Bush got up in front of America he took responsibility and made a bunch of promises. Now many are making excuses saying he wasn't at fault for the Fema fiasco and the government isn't responsible. Typical.

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: loup garou

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: loup garou

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: thecoroner
New Orleans is the second largest port in the world (the title of largest belongs to Rotterdam). It is also important historically. Before Katrina, it was the 28th most populous city in the United States.

And besides, we PAY TAXES TO THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT. How is someone we pay money to for protection not responsible for helping us after a hurricane?

And like loup garou said, the federal government didn't do its job with the levees. They should have withstoud the hurricane (it was under category 3 strength in New Orleans). The Army Core of Engineers did a piss poor job. Why are we constructing our levees with dirt and steel when the Netherlands have much more advanced levees than us? Are we not the richest nation in the world?

The better question is, why is the state of LA leaving something as important as levee that protects the 2nd largest port in the world to the federal goverment. And just as an FYI when the levees were built, there was no such thing as a rated cat 4 or cat5 hurricane.

Because Louisiana cannot afford to maintain them themselves.

However, if Louisiana got a fair cut of far-offshore oil and gas royalties, they could.

That is BS. A new levee system would only cost a few billion over the course of several years. Small fee attached to that 2nd largest port or all the oil and gas would easily pay for such a project. However a several billion project over several years is quite affordable by a state. LA is just looking for someone else to build what they need.

A new Cat5 levee system would cost tens of billions of dollars over a period of decades.
Right now the state can't even pay FEMA back because it has next to no income.

Right now, it is the federal government's responsibility to fix what is currently broken and bring it up to the state it should have been when Katrina struck. They are doing so, which is great. I would find an arrangement where LA gets a respectable cut of offshore oil and gas royalties and provides a good part of that to a new levee system a more than agreeable compromise.

You are incorrect, a new cat 5 levee system would only a cost few billlion over the course of a decade. It would only cost 10 billion if the entire job is done in 2-3 years(speed costs money, how fast do you want to go?) But even if it was 10s of billions over a couple deacads, it is still something the state can afford.

And if the state wants to charge ports fees, they can. Nothing is stopping the state from implementing such fees. However the state the LA would probably squander the money.

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: jimkyser

Originally posted by: charrison
The better question is, why is the state of LA leaving something as important as levee that protects the 2nd largest port in the world to the federal goverment. And just as an FYI when the levees were built, there was no such thing as a rated cat 4 or cat5 hurricane.

It's simple. Many of these large 'public works projects' like dams and levees are built and controlled by the Army Corps of Engineers. And they don't give up that control willingly.

The truly sad thing is that outside of NO, like along the southern LA and MS coast, many people are being denied insurance coverage because the the insurance companies have claimed the storm surge was a flood, not a hurricane and these people only have hurricane insurance. Something like 90% of the people with damaged homes in southern MS fall into this category. They will pay to repair a damaged roof, but not the interior of your home if there was flooding. Of course, that assumes you even have a roof. Along Route 90 in southern MS there's not many buildings left standing for the first 3 or 4 blocks. Those that are tend to be larger hotels, though they are still mostly damaged beyond repair.

And from what I saw last week, first hand, NO is still largely a ghost town. Many huge apartment complexes sit damaged, unlivable and vacant. Same for many busnesses. The few cars you see in the apartment complex parking lots are covered in dirt from being submerged.

If you did not have flood insurance and you live in a region that gets storm surges from hurricanes that seems like a choice was made. People that made this choice are not going to get much sympathy.

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: jimkyser

Originally posted by: rahvin
The Army Core of Engineers (ACE) is responsible for the maintence of the navigable channels. They maintain the levees to protect the mississipi channel. The levee's that breached were on canals that I doubt they have any responsibility for. Yes the ACE may have built the original levees and likely constructed the ones on the canal, but they aren't responsible for them. The city was and is most likely responsible for them.

Originally posted by: loup garou
Yes, it is, if the homeowner had federally funded flood insurance (surprise, people are still waiting for their insurance checks, do be fair fault lies both with insurance companies & the government).

Many weren't upto date on payment of the insurance and won't be getting checks. Those that deserve checks and haven't received them should, no question about that.

And as far as your little humor keep in mind I was talking about moving on with their lives, not moving their property.

No, the ACE was responsible for the levees. The had a block of money to improve them that wass taken away a year or two ago.

And the line about being behind on insurance is just crap. I was just down there for a week helping people who the insurance companies are screwing over fix there houses. The insurance companies paid an 86 year old lady on a fixed income, who paid her insurance premiums on time for 40+ years, $623.14 to cover damage to her house in Biloxi, MS. The damage ruined all of the flooring, all of the walls, all of the applicances and a portion of the roof. Then they expect her to drive to Hattiesburg if she want to protest. The loser agency doesn't even dare show their face in town.

Then there was the family in Gulfport. The hurricane damaged their roof. Water got into the attic and soaked all of the ceiling wallboard. Then it collapsed and flooded all that was below it. They have estimates to repair the house and they're all over $60k. The insurance company wants to give them $12k.

Did they have flood insurance? My guess is no and they are getting what they paid for.

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: Uhtrinity
When Bush got up in front of America he took responsibility and made a bunch of promises. Now many are making excuses saying he wasn't at fault for the Fema fiasco and the government isn't responsible. Typical.

The fed is already chipping in 80B , how much more do they want? If I recall correctly LA requrested several hundred billion.

 

[Orignal Earl]

Originally posted by: rahvin

Originally posted by: Orignal Earl
Yes, I posted that in hopes to embarrass all those arguing over money and who is responsible to help

You aren't embarassing anyone but yourself. Many of us have contributed significantly and we don't need juvenile candians attempting to lecture us.

I'm not embarassed. I'm sorry that as a Canadian you feel I shouldn't be able to give a *lecture* about an American tragedy. I do have family who are American and in a Hurricane zone so I tend to take it alittle personal.
Glad you and many others are doing all they can to help

 

[nageov3t]

pure lies!

MISSION ACCOMPLISHED, damnit. when will people realize that it means we're supposed to no longer care about the issue and resume spending money at walmart?

 

[jimkyser]

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: jimkyser

Originally posted by: rahvin
The Army Core of Engineers (ACE) is responsible for the maintence of the navigable channels. They maintain the levees to protect the mississipi channel. The levee's that breached were on canals that I doubt they have any responsibility for. Yes the ACE may have built the original levees and likely constructed the ones on the canal, but they aren't responsible for them. The city was and is most likely responsible for them.

Originally posted by: loup garou
Yes, it is, if the homeowner had federally funded flood insurance (surprise, people are still waiting for their insurance checks, do be fair fault lies both with insurance companies & the government).

Many weren't upto date on payment of the insurance and won't be getting checks. Those that deserve checks and haven't received them should, no question about that.

And as far as your little humor keep in mind I was talking about moving on with their lives, not moving their property.

No, the ACE was responsible for the levees. The had a block of money to improve them that wass taken away a year or two ago.

And the line about being behind on insurance is just crap. I was just down there for a week helping people who the insurance companies are screwing over fix there houses. The insurance companies paid an 86 year old lady on a fixed income, who paid her insurance premiums on time for 40+ years, $623.14 to cover damage to her house in Biloxi, MS. The damage ruined all of the flooring, all of the walls, all of the applicances and a portion of the roof. Then they expect her to drive to Hattiesburg if she want to protest. The loser agency doesn't even dare show their face in town.

Then there was the family in Gulfport. The hurricane damaged their roof. Water got into the attic and soaked all of the ceiling wallboard. Then it collapsed and flooded all that was below it. They have estimates to repair the house and they're all over $60k. The insurance company wants to give them $12k.

Did they have flood insurance? My guess is no and they are getting what they paid for.

Well there was no flood at the house in Gulfport. They are north of I-10 and the storm surge didn't reach that far. ALL of the damage was due to their roof leaking and that was due to wind damage.

The house in Biloxi DID have Hurricane insurance. The damage was caused by a hurricane, not a levee failing. I see a major calss action lawsuit brewing where the insurance companies will take it on the chin for deciding a hurricane that causes a storm surge isn't a hurricane anymore.

 

[jimkyser]

Originally posted by: rahvin

Originally posted by: jimkyser
No, the ACE was responsible for the levees. The had a block of money to improve them that wass taken away a year or two ago.

Just because there is money allocated does NOT mean they are responsible for them. The feds aren't repsonible for anything other than the designated interstate system but the feds still allocate money to build, maintain and repair other roads. None of it's an entitlement, NO is responsible for the maintenance of it's levee's outside the ones on the Mississppi, ACE is only responsible for navigable chanels and that's only to keep them navigable.

Originally posted by: jimkyser
And the line about being behind on insurance is just crap. I was just down there for a week helping people who the insurance companies are screwing over fix there houses. The insurance companies paid an 86 year old lady on a fixed income, who paid her insurance premiums on time for 40+ years, $623.14 to cover damage to her house in Biloxi, MS. The damage ruined all of the flooring, all of the walls, all of the applicances and a portion of the roof. Then they expect her to drive to Hattiesburg if she want to protest. The loser agency doesn't even dare show their face in town.

And what exactly did her policy say? Did she have flood insurance or is she applying for coverage for wind damage? The devil is in the details, unfortunately for her the limit of the insurances companies liability may have been for only the damage done by the wind. If you feel so bad for her, help bail her out yourself.

Originally posted by: jimkyser
Then there was the family in Gulfport. The hurricane damaged their roof. Water got into the attic and soaked all of the ceiling wallboard. Then it collapsed and flooded all that was below it. They have estimates to repair the house and they're all over $60k. The insurance company wants to give them $12k.

Estimates are likely heavilly inflated right now, the insurance companies aren't responsible for inflated prices. And again, it depends on what the policy says their coverage is. Although the circumstances are tragic I don't want insurance companies throwing money around like it's going out of style, that will raise EVERYONE's insurance.

No, estimates are not overinflated right now. If you were to actually see the home in question you would understand that. The roof needs completly new shingles on the back side side as almost 100% of them were ripped off. The plywood under the shingles is water and wind damaged in several places and will need to be replaced. The wall board in the walls and ceilings in all but two rooms was water damaged and moldy so it had to come down. The studs will need to be treated for mold before any new wallboard can be put up. All of the insulation in the walls and ceilings was also moldy. The flooring and all the applicances, cabinets and furniture are also ruined. Basically you're building a new house except you're starting with studded walls and exterior siding. And the studded walls need work before they are useable.

So where is your proof to back up the comment about them bening behind on insurance? Or are you going to back away from that one now becuase you know it is just crap?

 

[Ryan]

Threads like this make me glad that my house is insured by a VERY large company, with flood insurance (I'm two blocks from the beach).

 

[jimkyser]

Originally posted by: Ryan
Threads like this make me glad that my house is insured by a VERY large company, with flood insurance (I'm two blocks from the beach).

Actually, many of these people were insured with Allstate, GEICO and other large insurance companies. It's interesting to see some of the signs they've put up protesting their predicament.

 

[loup garou]

Originally posted by: charrison
You are incorrect, a new cat 5 levee system would only a cost few billlion over the course of a decade. It would only cost 10 billion if the entire job is done in 2-3 years(speed costs money, how fast do you want to go?) But even if it was 10s of billions over a couple deacads, it is still something the state can afford.

And if the state wants to charge ports fees, they can. Nothing is stopping the state from implementing such fees. However the state the LA would probably squander the money.

I have never heard anyone use this cost/speed before, I'd appreciate it if you could post a link to it. Everything I have heard has been 10-20 years, $30 billion. And don't forget, another important part of protecting the state is wetlands restoration.

Port fees would help, and it would be great if they increased them, but like I said, what Louisiana really needs is a share of the offshore oil & gas royalties. The offshore rigs are the reason Louisiana's wetlands are in such a sorry state and the platforms wouldn't exist if southern LA wasn't there. I'm not going to argue that Louisiana and New Orleans' governments are hard to trust, but you can't punish an entire state's population because of their poor leadership in the past. Once again, this way, LA isn't looking for a handout, they're looking for a fair share of profits that they've been requesting for a loooong time.

 

[rahvin]

Originally posted by: jimkyser
No, estimates are not overinflated right now.

Saying estimates are no overinflated right now and then listing damage is idiotic. Construction costs in the area have probably quadrupled or more because there is so much work to do and there is limited men and material to do it. The insurance company isn't responsible for the huge temporary rise in construction and material prices that is guaranteed to have happened. Do you understand basic economics?

Originally posted by: jimkyser
So where is your proof to back up the comment about them bening behind on insurance? Or are you going to back away from that one now becuase you know it is just crap?

The news reported that significant numbers of people in NO and the surrounding areas had not made insurance payment or had stopped paying outright. You wanna debate the point do your own survey and prove it wrong, two anecdotal stories don't mean anything.

 

[Pens1566]

Originally posted by: rahvin
It's not the responsibility of government to rebuild a destroyed city. Government has the responsibility to repair infastructure (roads, highways, bridges), not improve levees that keep a city dry that is below sea level, it's also not their responsiblity to bail out hospitals or homeowners. Those tasks lie with the residents of new orleans.

The smart residents have moved on and relocated, they should have never pumped the city dry.

But it is their responsibility to bail out airlines, right????

 

[jimkyser]

Originally posted by: rahvin

Originally posted by: jimkyser
No, estimates are not overinflated right now.

Saying estimates are no overinflated right now and then listing damage is idiotic. Construction costs in the area have probably quadrupled or more because there is so much work to do and there is limited men and material to do it. The insurance company isn't responsible for the huge temporary rise in construction and material prices that is guaranteed to have happened. Do you understand basic economics?

Yes, I understand basic economics. Please explain to me, oh wise one, how one makes all the repairs I listed for $12k. And why is it idiotic to list the damage? Knowing the extent of the damage is the only way to make an accurate estimate of the cost to repair it. Or does the economics you understand not require that. Oh, and Home Depot has nationwide pricing, so the price for lumber and other building materials from them has not changed one iota. Now there are spot shortages of certain items, but the prices are unchanged.