New Nintendo Console Debuting At E3 This June, Launching In 2012 Update: New Details

[FeathersMcGraw]

I'm not convinced that image is authentic. Why would they put easy portability from Xbox 360?

Because making it easy for developers to create ports for multiple platforms is the way you encourage developers to make games for your platform.

 

[Drako]

I'm not convinced that image is authentic. Why would they put easy portability from Xbox 360?

They need some decent 3rd party developed games. With the Wii at this point, they don't have any.

 

[Ross Ridge]

Because making it easy for developers to create ports for multiple platforms is the way you encourage developers to make games for your platform.

Yah. I wonder how serious this actually is though. To make porting from the Xbox 360 that much easier they'd need an entire DirectX-like API, not just the OpenGL API that they (and Sony) have been using in the past.

Hmm... I also note that they're also trying to attract developers with "current generation costs".

 

[Ross Ridge]

Exactly why I want the "Cafe" or whatever to be able to render games in B/C mode at HD resolutions. If an emulator is able to do it, the official hardware should be too.

If you actually try this on a emulator on a PC you'll often get a number of graphics glitches showing up like BD2003 mentioned. A small gap between polygons that was invisble at low resolutions can becoming very visable at high resolutions is a typical problem. Also the standards for a "working" game under emulation is very low. If you can get from start to finish the game then it "works", even if it's loaded with graphical glitches, crashes, and significant parts that unplayable. A lot of time games are reported as working without anyone actually taking the time to finish the game.

With a commercial product that low standard isn't enough. You might be able to get away with something similiar to the PlayStation 2 and it's hidden backwards compatibility options to increase CD-ROM speed and enable texture-filtering in orginal PlayStation games. But these options cause much less problem than rendering at a higher resolution would.

I should also add if this new Nintendo product has hardware backwards compatiblity, not some sort of software emulation like on PCs then it maybe very difficult to implement properly. With software emulation the game is rendered on hardware that's nothing like the original, so a change in resolution doesn't add much more of a problem. With hardware that actually works like the original then you only have same amount of video memory as the original, but now you've got to fit a frame buffer inside it that's four times as big.

You'd be forced to try handle it like a software emulator would, rendering the 1080p image to a location in memory the original console didn't have. You'd also need to simultaneously render a 480p image to where it would normally go in case the game reads it back. Problems like this are why software-based emulation don't have anywhere near the compatibilty that hardware-based backwards compatiblity does.

 

[simonizor]

Has anyone seen the controller rumor? If this were true, it could be really interesting.

http://gear.ign.com/articles/116/1162204p1.html

 

[Ross Ridge]

Has anyone seen the controller rumor? If this were true, it could be really interesting.

The 6" screen sounds absurd, at least in any standard aspect ratio. The PSP has a 4.3" screen and it's bigger than you really would want a controller to be.

The decription also makes it sound like a portable gaming device in it's own right. This might be the most expensive standard controller any console ever had.

I do like the idea of a GameCube controller layout. Aside from the triggers, I really like the GameCube controller. In particular I do hope, unlike in the concept art in the linked article, there's one big green button so there's no doubt in any developer's or Nintendo's mind which button should be the default action button.

 

[I4AT]

If the controller was basically a Nintendo DS with analog sticks that would be awesome. I hope by revamped R700 they mean die shrunk, cause the 4870 and especially the 4890 used a lot of power and ran hot as hell.

If it doesn't have a subscription free online component without friend codes then I don't really care how fast it is. But if by some miracle they added true KBM support and it had at least 512mb system ram and 512mb vram I might even ditch my PC for it. Nintendo sucks at securing their machines so we know it's gonna be opened up wide at some point.

 

[BD2003]

If the controller was basically a Nintendo DS with analog sticks that would be awesome. I hope by revamped R700 they mean die shrunk, cause the 4870 and especially the 4890 used a lot of power and ran hot as hell.

If it doesn't have a subscription free online component without friend codes then I don't really care how fast it is. But if by some miracle they added true KBM support and it had at least 512mb system ram and 512mb vram I might even ditch my PC for it. Nintendo sucks at securing their machines so we know it's gonna be opened up wide at some point.

It cant have less than 1GB total memory. It just cant. That would be bananas.

 

[HeXen]

even though ps3/xbox is ancient, what developers have been able to do on it today is nothing short of amazing. Other than graphical enhancements like AA/resolution, there's not a lot out there in the latest tech world in regards to A.I. Sound,Physics.
Games like Oblivion,Crysis,Fear have maxed out that type of tech years ago and it hasn't gotten anywhere since.

So hopefully Nintendo can push more than just better graphics. Would at least be nice to see more games with enemies that can do more than run behind box and attack relentlessly without fear or spot you, search for 20 seconds then give up and back to original positions only to repeat out loud "what was that?" when the player makes a noise.
Fck the graphics, give me a realistic environment of physics and A.I i can play in, preferably modeled after real places

 

[smartpatrol]

They need some decent 3rd party developed games. With the Wii at this point, they don't have any.

Yeah that's what I was thinking. For the last 3 console generations, Nintendo has basically been the odd man out:

- N64 cartridges had pathetic storage space compared to CD-ROM.
- Gamecube's mini-DVDs only held 1.4GB vs. 4.7GB/layer for a DVD.
- Wii was obviously a completely different class of hardware compared to PS3 & 360

So for 3 generations, Nintendo's systems have been a pain in the ass for multi-platform developers. Games had to be designed specifically around Nintendo's limitations.

Wii in particular seems to have scared away all the 3rd party developers, and further reinforced Nintendo's image as the console you only buy because you want to play Nintendo's 1st party titles. I guess it didn't help that their whole business strategy is selling gimmicks to children and soccer moms.

Will the 3rd party developers flock back to Nintendo now? Who knows.

 

[BD2003]

even though ps3/xbox is ancient, what developers have been able to do on it today is nothing short of amazing. Other than graphical enhancements like AA/resolution, there's not a lot out there in the latest tech world in regards to A.I. Sound,Physics.
Games like Oblivion,Crysis,Fear have maxed out that type of tech years ago and it hasn't gotten anywhere since.

So hopefully Nintendo can push more than just better graphics. Would at least be nice to see more games with enemies that can do more than run behind box and attack relentlessly without fear or spot you, search for 20 seconds then give up and back to original positions only to repeat out loud "what was that?" when the player makes a noise.
Fck the graphics, give me a realistic environment of physics and A.I i can play in, preferably modeled after real places

Well, it hasn't gotten anywhere since because the consoles haven't really changed. Going to need true next gen hardware for that, and this ain't gonna be it. A new console with true next gen specs will have specs that just seem absolutely absurd compared to the older one, the way the NGP sounds. A true next gen console should have a CPU/GPU comparable to a high end gaming PC the day it's out. So we're talking 4ghz quad, dx12, 8gb ram, some ssd storage, a big HDD and bluray.

Does that sound like something nintendo will make?

 

[iluvdeal]

Well, it hasn't gotten anywhere since because the consoles haven't really changed. Going to need true next gen hardware for that, and this ain't gonna be it. A new console with true next gen specs will have specs that just seem absolutely absurd compared to the older one, the way the NGP sounds. A true next gen console should have a CPU/GPU comparable to a high end gaming PC the day it's out. So we're talking 4ghz quad, dx12, 8gb ram, some ssd storage, a big HDD and bluray.

Does that sound like something nintendo will make?

If their goal is to lose money, sure.

 

[reallyscrued]

Well, it hasn't gotten anywhere since because the consoles haven't really changed. Going to need true next gen hardware for that, and this ain't gonna be it. A new console with true next gen specs will have specs that just seem absolutely absurd compared to the older one, the way the NGP sounds. A true next gen console should have a CPU/GPU comparable to a high end gaming PC the day it's out. So we're talking 4ghz quad, dx12, 8gb ram, some ssd storage, a big HDD and bluray.

Does that sound like something nintendo will make?

I suppose you make up these rules? The rules to what dictates a "true next gen" console.

Your passive/aggressive shots at Nintendo are getting weak.

In my opinion, if the next console released is able to do native 1080p, it already has a leg-up from the current offerings from Microsoft and Sony that really only render at 720.

Even if Project Cafe has hardware exactly matching the 360 (the GPU obviously notwithstanding), I'll be extremely excited. Look at some screens of recent Wii games and then realize they are able to squeeze that much performance from a machine with only 88 megabytes of RAM.

 

[Ross Ridge]

A true next gen console should have a CPU/GPU comparable to a high end gaming PC the day it's out. So we're talking 4ghz quad, dx12, 8gb ram, some ssd storage, a big HDD and bluray.

GPU-wise and to lesser extent CPU-wise that's true, but everything else about past consoles at launch wasn't comparable to higher end gaming PCs at the time. The Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3 launched with a 512MB total memory, video and CPU, while high-end gaming PC at the time would have had 1G of system memory and 512M of video memory. The PS3 had a Bluray drive, but the 360 only had 12x DVD drive where a highend PC would've had a 16x DVD drive. The 360 launched with a tiny, even for the time, 20GB hard drive, or none at all if you bough the Core model. The PS3 was better with the option of a 60GB drive, but a high-end gaming PC would've had at least 120GB, maybe more in a RAID configuation. Go back to the previous generation and the PlayStation 2 and the original Xbox, and you can make similar comparisions. Nice GPU, good CPU and mediocre at best everything else.

So I'd say following past history a next generation Microsoft or Sony console announced today would have an amazing GPU though at launch comparable to the best ATI and NVIDIA have to offer. A 3.5+ GHz quad CPU (probably PowerPC but maybe Intel or AMD), 2GB, maybe 4GB of system RAM, 512MB, maybe 1G of video RAM, 250GB HD or 8G flash. Sony's console would have Bluray, Microsoft's a 16x DVD.

Still even so by comparision the rumours of what's in Nintendo's new console are underwelming. It sounds to me like Nintendo is going cheap again. A GPU I can buy today, a CPU not much better than what's in the five year old Xbox 360. I'm surprised price estimates are so high, from what I've heard so far I'd think that Nintendo could sell this thing for $300 and still make a profit. Well assuming the weird new controllers don't end up driving up the cost at lot.

 

[smartpatrol]

In my opinion, if the next console released is able to do native 1080p, it already has a leg-up from the current offerings from Microsoft and Sony that really only render at 720.

Both PS3 and 360 are capable of rendering at 1080p. I don't know what you're talking about. Hell, even the original Xbox was technically capable of 1080i (which requires the game to be rendered at 1920x1080 just the same as 1080p).

Most games are only rendered at 720p because then they can use the hardware capabilities for something else. If the rumors are true and Nintendo's new system is on par with current-gen consoles, then most of its games will likely be rendered at 720p as well.

 

[KaOTiK]

Both PS3 and 360 are capable of rendering at 1080p. I don't know what you're talking about. Hell, even the original Xbox was technically capable of 1080i (which requires the game to be rendered at 1920x1080 just the same as 1080p).

Most games are only rendered at 720p because then they can use the hardware capabilities for something else. If the rumors are true and Nintendo's new system is on par with current-gen consoles, then most of its games will likely be rendered at 720p as well.

He is meaning all games are rendered at native 1080p. Sure there are some games that do it now, but they are in the very small minority. Most games are 720p, and even a good portion are not even 720p natively and are upscaled to it.

 

[bunnyfubbles]

Still even so by comparision the rumours of what's in Nintendo's new console are underwelming. It sounds to me like Nintendo is going cheap again. A GPU I can buy today, a CPU not much better than what's in the five year old Xbox 360. I'm surprised price estimates are so high, from what I've heard so far I'd think that Nintendo could sell this thing for $300 and still make a profit. Well assuming the weird new controllers don't end up driving up the cost at lot.

You have to realize that Microsoft and Sony were selling their consoles for a loss. The $600 PS3 cost Sony over $900 to make when it debuted.

Just because a new Nintendo console is likely to be a lot less powerful than what we assume Sony or Microsoft would put out doesn't mean Nintendo should sell their console for a loss.

 

[Ross Ridge]

You have to realize that Microsoft and Sony were selling
their consoles for a loss. The $600 PS3 cost Sony over $900 to make when it debuted.

A described so far it's barely more powerful than what Sony and Microsoft are putting out
right now, and they're not selling them for a loss anymore.

Just because a new Nintendo console is likely to be a lot less powerful than what we assume Sony or Microsoft would put out doesn't mean Nintendo should sell their console for a loss.

I never suggested that at all. As I clearly stated, I think Nintendo could sell it for $300 and still make a profit.

So far it's just a Xbox 360 with an upgraded GPU, and Microsoft makes money selling 360's for only $200. By the time this new product actually comes to market next year it's going to be using a GPU based on a obsolete three year old design so that won't be driving the price up. Maybe this fancy new controller will make that it much more costly to build for Nintendo, but otherwise it sounds like a $300 console to me.

 

[smartpatrol]

He is meaning all games are rendered at native 1080p. Sure there are some games that do it now, but they are in the very small minority. Most games are 720p, and even a good portion are not even 720p natively and are upscaled to it.

Yeah and like I said, if the new Nintendo system is similar in power to the PS3 and 360, then it too will be rendering most games at 720p.

 

[reallyscrued]

Yeah and like I said, if the new Nintendo system is similar in power to the PS3 and 360, then it too will be rendering most games at 720p.

Similar in power concerning RAM and CPU. Every leak points to an R700 chipset being utilized to drive graphics. You seriously think an HD4800 class GPU in a closed console environment won't be able to push 1080p graphics?

You're just being difficult; it's like you're refusing to accept that the 360/PS3 uses hardware half decade old. It won't be difficult to leapfrog them as far as resolution goes. There's no doubt that the next gen Microsoft/Sony offering will stomp the Wii/2/Stream whatever to the ground, but I think it's a fair assumption that Ninty will be graphical king for a year or two before those are released.

 

[KaOTiK]

Yeah and like I said, if the new Nintendo system is similar in power to the PS3 and 360, then it too will be rendering most games at 720p.

 

[reallyscrued]

See KaOTik's gif above...

Both PS3 and 360 are capable of rendering at 1080p. I don't know what you're talking about. Hell, even the original Xbox was technically capable of 1080i (which requires the game to be rendered at 1920x1080 just the same as 1080p).

Most games are only rendered at 720p because then they can use the hardware capabilities for something else.

😕 at what you're trying to say there. First you say you don't know what the hell I'm talking about and then you go on to say that most games are only rendered at 720p (actually more like 600p or 640p, whatever weird tricks they are doing now) because...then they can use the left over resources for something else?

...Isn't that another way of saying, if it tried at 1080p, things would slow to a crawl?

 

[smartpatrol]

Similar in power concerning RAM and CPU. Every leak points to an R700 chipset being utilized to drive graphics. You seriously think an HD4800 class GPU in a closed console environment won't be able to push 1080p graphics?

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=427412

- Developer quotes: graphics capabilities "roughly equal to those of the Xbox 360", performance "over the Xbox 360, but just a notch"

You do realize that there are a whole range of GPUs based on R700? If its graphics capabilities are roughly equal to Xbox 360's, then it sure as hell is not using an "HD4800 class GPU" (800 stream processors & 256-bit GDDR5). It's going to be more like a mid-range or low-end R700 variant.

...Isn't that another way of saying, if it tried at 1080p, things would slow to a crawl?

Yes, and if the quote above is true, so will Nintendo Stream (or whatever it's called).

Switching to a newer shader architecture does not automatically imply that it can push more pixels. That depends on other variables, like the number of stream processors, the amount of graphics memory, and the memory bandwidth.

 

[BD2003]

I suppose you make up these rules? The rules to what dictates a "true next gen" console.

Your passive/aggressive shots at Nintendo are getting weak.

In my opinion, if the next console released is able to do native 1080p, it already has a leg-up from the current offerings from Microsoft and Sony that really only render at 720.

Even if Project Cafe has hardware exactly matching the 360 (the GPU obviously notwithstanding), I'll be extremely excited. Look at some screens of recent Wii games and then realize they are able to squeeze that much performance from a machine with only 88 megabytes of RAM.

Its not like I'm pulling these specs out of my ass, there's precedent for fairly easily categorized console generations, comparable to PCs of its time. I'm not trying to make a semantic argument. You generally have a ~5 year technological leap between the "true" generations, and the resulting consoles tend to be very similarly capable. You'll always have the outliers that dont seem to fall in line like the jaguar and dreamcast, and they always seem to inevitably fail. Nintendo with the wii was almost unprecendented because its far more in common with the last generation than the current.

Its been almost 5 years since the 360 - if it cant soundly trounce 2005 level tech, how can anyone consider it the next generation? Its just a very late entry to the current generation, even if its the most powerful of the bunch. It might even end up somewhere in the middle dreamcast style. And I'm sure nintendo will put out some great first party titles. But for those of us ready for the "real" next generation, this doesnt sound like its going to be it. I'm excited and all, but its not what I really want, I want the real next gen already.

 

[Dumac]

Its not like I'm pulling these specs out of my ass, there's precedent for fairly easily categorized console generations, comparable to PCs of its time. I'm not trying to make a semantic argument. You generally have a ~5 year technological leap between the "true" generations, and the resulting consoles tend to be very similarly capable. You'll always have the outliers that dont seem to fall in line like the jaguar and dreamcast, and they always seem to inevitably fail. Nintendo with the wii was almost unprecendented because its far more in common with the last generation than the current.

Its been almost 5 years since the 360 - if it cant soundly trounce 2005 level tech, how can anyone consider it the next generation? Its just a very late entry to the current generation, even if its the most powerful of the bunch. It might even end up somewhere in the middle dreamcast style. And I'm sure nintendo will put out some great first party titles. But for those of us ready for the "real" next generation, this doesnt sound like its going to be it. I'm excited and all, but its not what I really want, I want the real next gen already.

Correlation != causation