New Macrovision to block 97% of DVD copying.

[mwtgg]

Originally posted by: Howard
02/15/2005 02:17 PM

Originally posted by: glugglug
If it can be viewed, it can be ripped.

02/15/2005 02:48 PM

Originally posted by: MercenaryForHire
If it can be played, it can be cracked.

- M4H

glugglug = M4H = ManSnake ??

 

[Wag]

Is it cracked yet?

 

[BatmanNate]

I'm curious how this will affect set top DVD players with MPEG-4 capabilities like those with ESS chipsets (ie Divx/Xvid players). Wouldn't it be ironic if it crashed them and the only way to play the movies was to rip the DVD to MPEG-4 using a PC and circumventing this bullshit copy protection?

 

[pulse8]

Originally posted by: daniel1113
Until now, I didn't realize what a great company Macrovision was (profit-wise). All they have to do is "invent" a new copy protection scheme every year or so to sell to various media vendors for a nice profit, all the while knowing damn well that it will be cracked within a week, thus guaranteeing more business. Hell, they are even able to market copy protection schemes for dying technologies. Why didn't I think of this?

They've been around for YEARS with the same type of copy protection.

 

[MDE]

It'll get hacked and we'll be back to square one.

 

[anxi80]

to the guys who responded to me, thanks for the info. i havent bought blank dvd's in so long, havent realized that they were that much cheaper (see what happens when you stay out of hot deals? you get excluded from the loop). i guess with the subscription services and such, it makes it easier and a more viable option (for those who dont want to pay full retail for dvds). plus i also skipped over the fact that new releases dont hit the previously viewed shelves until weeks after its initial release. thanks a bunch for the input guys! much appreciated.

 

[daniel1113]

Originally posted by: pulse8

Originally posted by: daniel1113
Until now, I didn't realize what a great company Macrovision was (profit-wise). All they have to do is "invent" a new copy protection scheme every year or so to sell to various media vendors for a nice profit, all the while knowing damn well that it will be cracked within a week, thus guaranteeing more business. Hell, they are even able to market copy protection schemes for dying technologies. Why didn't I think of this?

They've been around for YEARS with the same type of copy protection.

I know... hence why I put quotations around "invent". Perhaps I should have put them around "new" as well.

 

[NickelTitanium]

What a bunch of PHREAKS!

 

[jlee]

Originally posted by: Pepsi90919

Originally posted by: MustISO
I don't see how they can implement this. By changing the security on a DVD you're no longer compliant with the standards of a DVD. They won't even be able to call it or label it a DVD. The same thing happened when they tried to protect CD's, it changed the format so it was no longer a true CD. In the end it was never used.

Either way, I would guess more money is spent trying to protect the content than is lost. A billion dollars is probably a billion dollars over estimated.

um, what? it's called "Copy Control" and is used on every "not-CD" EMI puts out in Canada.

I've never seen one here..

 

[asm0deus]

this thread is packed full of guesswork, THX helped them make it. It causes DVD decryption software to crash. It doesnt mess up the DVDs on players, only on the decryption. You guys should read the articles before spewing your non-sense. it will get cracked pretty quick though I hope. I remember getting around macrovision VHS copy protection using a camcorder, it was awesome.

 

[mwtgg]

Originally posted by: asm0deus
this thread is packed full of guesswork, THX helped them make it. It causes DVD decryption software to crash. It doesnt mess up the DVDs on players, only on the decryption. You guys should read the articles before spewing your non-sense. it will get cracked pretty quick though I hope. I remember getting around macrovision VHS copy protection using a camcorder, it was awesome.

Scotch tape.

 

[ZeroEffect]

Never a mention on how the new copy protection effects video quality.

who cares about that, right?

 

[spacelord]

The studios sure don't.

 

[CVSiN]

Originally posted by: 91TTZ
The good news is that this stops 97% of all software rippers on the market today from working. The bad news is that that it will become 100% ineffective within 2 weeks.

lol

hgahahahaha

 

[purbeast0]

Originally posted by: yukichigai

Originally posted by: jagec

According to Gervin, just over a billion dollars has been lost by people who "rip and return"?consumers who rent a movie, copy it to their own digital library, and return the movie the next day.

It seems to me that they make a lot more money on THOSE people than people who just download it from the 'net without ever renting anything.

No kidding. Half the time when I want to rent a movie on the weekend it's not available. Renting it earlier in the week, copying it and then returning it lets me watch it when I f%$#ing have time, and gives someone else the chance to watch it at the same time. Hell, the rental companies would make more money in that case.

This is, of course, all hypothetical. ^_^

The way they've phrased the press release makes me think it's some kind of self-installing program that circumvents the "disable autoplay"/"hold down the f%$#ing shift key" setting in Windows. (Could even be with MS's support; they did introduce that truly lame protection scheme that prevents people with MCE cards from recording most anything on HBO, Showtime, etc.) If such is the case it's the most retarded scheme yet; anybody running *nix will have no problem at all bypassing this, and something that circumvents no-autoplay settings will likely be addressed separately due to security concerns, much less fair use. Or I could be completely wrong about all of this. Who knows. The bottom line is that I highly doubt this'll stand up for very long.


On a vaguely related topic, here's something I'd like to see rental places adopt: "self-destructing" writable DVD media. Think about it: instead of having to purchase X copies of a movie, they purchase one master copy and some kind of "rental distribution license" from the MPAA. (Which would probably be astronomically expensive and kill my idea, but hear me out) The store carries a stock of this "self-destructing" media; whenever someone wants a movie, the store burns them a copy. (Or pre-burns a number of copies of the hotter titles and stores them in a manner that prevents them from decaying)

There's a lot of advantages to this, if stores did it. For the consumer, there's no late fees. Stores might not like this, but assuming Blockbuster's new business plan works they'll all have to follow suit eventually. On top of that, you're guaranteed the film you want to see, barring some kind of machine failure. Sure, you have to wait a bit if it's not something they keep pre-burned, but frankly I think the tradeoff -- guaranteed availability of any new release -- would be worth it.

I'm sure there's huge holes in this, but meh, it's a neat idea on paper.

/end thread hijack

that circuit city divx crap was similar to your idea.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Originally posted by: yukichigai
The way they've phrased the press release makes me think it's some kind of self-installing program that circumvents the "disable autoplay"/"hold down the f%$#ing shift key" setting in Windows. (Could even be with MS's support; they did introduce that truly lame protection scheme that prevents people with MCE cards from recording most anything on HBO, Showtime, etc.) If such is the case it's the most retarded scheme yet; anybody running *nix will have no problem at all bypassing this, and something that circumvents no-autoplay settings will likely be addressed separately due to security concerns, much less fair use. Or I could be completely wrong about all of this. Who knows. The bottom line is that I highly doubt this'll stand up for very long.

That's a good point, and how it affects "rippers" but not "normal playback". I guess they could silently auto-install a kernel-mode device-driver, that F-'s with the low-level datastream based on some factors, perhaps the IRPs sent by the player, are somehow characteristically different than the IRPs sent by the ripper, or perhaps this is simply an implimentation of "weak sectors" for DVDs, and those sectors aren't actually part of the normally-viewed video-stream, so they won't halt playback, but they are located in the middle of the .VOB files, which may impede most rippers. (Since DVD-Video media files can contain multiple interleaved playback streams, this seems the most likely to me, as it would have a cross-platform advantage.) But it would also seemingly be able to easily work-around, by modding the ripper software to detect this (like CloneCD added "fast error skip"), and then they could backfill with "dummy sectors" when making an image file, and then burn that, and then they're home free as far as downlevel-generation copies go.

Originally posted by: yukichigai
On a vaguely related topic, here's something I'd like to see rental places adopt: "self-destructing" writable DVD media. Think about it: instead of having to purchase X copies of a movie, they purchase one master copy and some kind of "rental distribution license" from the MPAA. (Which would probably be astronomically expensive and kill my idea, but hear me out) The store carries a stock of this "self-destructing" media; whenever someone wants a movie, the store burns them a copy. (Or pre-burns a number of copies of the hotter titles and stores them in a manner that prevents them from decaying)

DVD-RW, perhaps? The trick would be needing a special player, actually, I guess it would have to be capable of being a writer too, and "erase" the movie as it was viewed, or something like that. Realistically, yeah, I guess that wouldn't work too well, considering the existing installed-based of players that have no write capability (although they could likely be modded in firmware).

Originally posted by: yukichigai
There's a lot of advantages to this, if stores did it. For the consumer, there's no late fees. Stores might not like this, but assuming Blockbuster's new business plan works they'll all have to follow suit eventually. On top of that, you're guaranteed the film you want to see, barring some kind of machine failure. Sure, you have to wait a bit if it's not something they keep pre-burned, but frankly I think the tradeoff -- guaranteed availability of any new release -- would be worth it.

They actually tried something like that in limited test markets, I think, for some cartridge-based console systems. I don't think that it ever gained widespread release though.

Edit: Btw, in the end though, copy-protection is ultimately futile. It's like scene at the end of WarGames, where each scenario and counter-scenario plays out on the WOPR computer. In the end, it's a pointless waste of time and resources. Why can't these companies realize that? That was the reason that PC game copy-protection eventually died off in the first place. Who's dumb-azz idea was it to resurrect the idea again in the first place?

 

[nakedfrog]

Originally posted by: VirtualLarry
That was the reason that PC game copy-protection eventually died off in the first place. Who's dumb-azz idea was it to resurrect the idea again in the first place?

Macrovision's? They're in the business of providing copy protection, and it's an appealing idea to the IP owners.

 

[PingSpike]

Originally posted by: purbeast0

that circuit city divx crap was similar to your idea.

Didn't they want you to basically pay to rent a DVD you own over and over again? It sure was a surprise when that didn't fly.

 

[PingSpike]

I predict DVD copying will be somewhat impeded for approximentally 1 month, thereafter, only for the time it takes to do a google search. Also, a plethora of customers who purchased the DVD legitamently will be unable to play it. They will be advised to buy new players.

 

[AMDZen]

My guess is that the author's of DVDShrink will have a workaround for this the same week DVD's with the protection hit the market.

The only reason the MPAA is losing money on DVD copying is because they continually waste money on something which is impossible. Keep throwing away your money MPAA, and continue to blame that loss of funds on people copying them, but don't bother coming up to the real world anytime soon.

 

[MrPickins]

Originally posted by: yukichigai

Originally posted by: jagec

According to Gervin, just over a billion dollars has been lost by people who "rip and return"?consumers who rent a movie, copy it to their own digital library, and return the movie the next day.

It seems to me that they make a lot more money on THOSE people than people who just download it from the 'net without ever renting anything.

No kidding. Half the time when I want to rent a movie on the weekend it's not available. Renting it earlier in the week, copying it and then returning it lets me watch it when I f%$#ing have time, and gives someone else the chance to watch it at the same time. Hell, the rental companies would make more money in that case.

This is, of course, all hypothetical. ^_^

The way they've phrased the press release makes me think it's some kind of self-installing program that circumvents the "disable autoplay"/"hold down the f%$#ing shift key" setting in Windows. (Could even be with MS's support; they did introduce that truly lame protection scheme that prevents people with MCE cards from recording most anything on HBO, Showtime, etc.) If such is the case it's the most retarded scheme yet; anybody running *nix will have no problem at all bypassing this, and something that circumvents no-autoplay settings will likely be addressed separately due to security concerns, much less fair use. Or I could be completely wrong about all of this. Who knows. The bottom line is that I highly doubt this'll stand up for very long.


On a vaguely related topic, here's something I'd like to see rental places adopt: "self-destructing" writable DVD media. Think about it: instead of having to purchase X copies of a movie, they purchase one master copy and some kind of "rental distribution license" from the MPAA. (Which would probably be astronomically expensive and kill my idea, but hear me out) The store carries a stock of this "self-destructing" media; whenever someone wants a movie, the store burns them a copy. (Or pre-burns a number of copies of the hotter titles and stores them in a manner that prevents them from decaying)

There's a lot of advantages to this, if stores did it. For the consumer, there's no late fees. Stores might not like this, but assuming Blockbuster's new business plan works they'll all have to follow suit eventually. On top of that, you're guaranteed the film you want to see, barring some kind of machine failure. Sure, you have to wait a bit if it's not something they keep pre-burned, but frankly I think the tradeoff -- guaranteed availability of any new release -- would be worth it.

I'm sure there's huge holes in this, but meh, it's a neat idea on paper.

/end thread hijack

Sounds almost exactly like Flexplay. I've seen them in convinience stores around here. You have something like 48hrs to use the dvd after you open the airtight container. After that, a dye in the dvd oxidizes changing the color to black, and making it unreadable.

 

[suse920]

Originally posted by: glugglug
If it can be viewed, it can be ripped.