New GeForce GTX 260 to Feature 216 Shaders - Beats Radeon 4870

[AuDioFreaK39]

Tuesday, 02 September 2008

The current Geforce GTX 260 has 192 Shaders and it looks that the new one will have 216. The story is quite simple. The GT200 core has 10 units with each featuring 24 Shaders and instead of eight clusters enabled with the old GTX 260, Nvidia will enable nine.

The new card should be available at some point in September and it definitely wins over the Radeon 4870. That is the whole point and it looks like the new GTX 260 will end up around $50 more expensive than the current one.

It looks like that this is the first "new" product that will try to consolidate its roadmap in the war against ATI. ATI came out strong and this time Nvidia has a better answer than simply renaming its current products - it will slightly alter them and market them as new.

http://www.fudzilla.com/index....=view&id=9209&Itemid=1

This thread has either run its course or the posters have ADHD, I can't decide which

-ViRGE

 

[dug777]

Will be interesting to see how it shapes up.

Looking at a few benchies thow in a bir of the old overclocking and it may start to tread on the toes of the superbly overpriced 280...

More importantly, can we unlock them on a standard GTX260? That would be neat 😉

 

[MarcVenice]

What exactly is the point of enabling more shaders and then making it more expensive? With 16 shaders it still be on par with a HD4870 most of the time, and sometimes slightly faster. Not 50$ faster though.

And what will they do with the gtx280, because the difference between the gtx260 and gtx280 will become a bit smaller now.

 

[Aberforth]

man, there is something seriously wrong with this company. They came up with GTX+ to beat 4850 and now this? In other words, bring two new tweaked cards just to destroy the competition and what about the existing customers? I hope someone files a anti-trust suit against them, they are making too many changes in each quarter.

 

[dug777]

Originally posted by: MarcVenice
What exactly is the point of enabling more shaders and then making it more expensive? With 16 shaders it still be on par with a HD4870 most of the time, and sometimes slightly faster. Not 50$ faster though.

And what will they do with the gtx280, because the difference between the gtx260 and gtx280 will become a bit smaller now.

Indeed.

I'dd add the shaders and keep the price unchanged. Unless they're finally adding the long sought after 55nm 280 and pumping the clocks some I suppose.

 

[MarcVenice]

They are driving up the price by like 20%, and only adding 10% of extra shaderpower. They'd have to ramp up the clocks by 15% or so to justify the extra $50. It still won't be a very good bang for buck card though.

 

[error8]

It's pretty clear that if Nvidia does this, 4870 will sell cheaper, resulting in more adopters of the ATI card. The "new" GTX 260 has to be at about the same price to be competitive. Anyway, I don't trust the fudzilla article, it's weird for Nvidia to be doing such a thing, especially when the GTX 260 is very close to the flagship 280. Tightening the gap even further, it's a very stupid thing to do.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: Aberforth
man, there is something seriously wrong with this company. They came up with GTX+ to beat 4850 and now this? In other words, bring two new tweaked cards just to destroy the competition and what about the existing customers? I hope someone files a anti-trust suit against them, they are making too many changes in each quarter.

A company improves their line to beat the competition and you are complaining? Anti-trust? I am assuming that was sarcasm. Nvidia owns about 25% of the market. Anti-trust is designed to break up companies with near 100% of the market.

 

[Griswold]

Nvidia still doesnt get it. But they will, eventually..

 

[Aberforth]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: Aberforth
man, there is something seriously wrong with this company. They came up with GTX+ to beat 4850 and now this? In other words, bring two new tweaked cards just to destroy the competition and what about the existing customers? I hope someone files a anti-trust suit against them, they are making too many changes in each quarter.

A company improves their line to beat the competition and you are complaining? Anti-trust? I am assuming that was sarcasm. Nvidia owns about 25% of the market. Anti-trust is designed to break up companies with near 100% of the market.

not really, frequent price fixing, limited consumer protection will be called anti-trust in US and NV definitely qualifies for it. However, they won't get sued just for this- i mean there are many companies with this attitude. It only happens if they push everyones moral limits.

And finally, this isn't competition. This is almost cheating, a competitive product has more features at a reasonable price - so the customer will be the one to decide which ones the best not the company. Frequent price fixing or tweaking existing products to stay ahead with limited or no innovation or without proprietary logistics is definitely not moral according to US Law.

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: Aberforth

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: Aberforth
man, there is something seriously wrong with this company. They came up with GTX+ to beat 4850 and now this? In other words, bring two new tweaked cards just to destroy the competition and what about the existing customers? I hope someone files a anti-trust suit against them, they are making too many changes in each quarter.

A company improves their line to beat the competition and you are complaining? Anti-trust? I am assuming that was sarcasm. Nvidia owns about 25% of the market. Anti-trust is designed to break up companies with near 100% of the market.

not really, frequent price fixing, limited consumer protection will be called anti-trust in US and NV definitely qualifies for it. However, they won't get sued just for this- i mean there are many companies with this attitude. It only happens if they push everyones moral limits.

And finally, this isn't competition. This is almost cheating, a competitive product has more features at a reasonable price - so the customer will be the one to decide which ones the best not the company. Frequent price fixing or tweaking existing products to stay ahead with limited or no innovation or without proprietary logistics is definitely not moral according to US Law.

Why did this: "New GeForce GTX 260 to Feature 216 Shaders - Beats Radeon 4870"

turn into this:

price fixing, anti-trust, sue, moral limits, cheating, tweaking not moral, US Law ???????

Aberforth, just don't post anymore. OMFG.

 

[Aberforth]

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Originally posted by: Aberforth

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: Aberforth
man, there is something seriously wrong with this company. They came up with GTX+ to beat 4850 and now this? In other words, bring two new tweaked cards just to destroy the competition and what about the existing customers? I hope someone files a anti-trust suit against them, they are making too many changes in each quarter.

A company improves their line to beat the competition and you are complaining? Anti-trust? I am assuming that was sarcasm. Nvidia owns about 25% of the market. Anti-trust is designed to break up companies with near 100% of the market.

not really, frequent price fixing, limited consumer protection will be called anti-trust in US and NV definitely qualifies for it. However, they won't get sued just for this- i mean there are many companies with this attitude. It only happens if they push everyones moral limits.

And finally, this isn't competition. This is almost cheating, a competitive product has more features at a reasonable price - so the customer will be the one to decide which ones the best not the company. Frequent price fixing or tweaking existing products to stay ahead with limited or no innovation or without proprietary logistics is definitely not moral according to US Law.

Why did this: "New GeForce GTX 260 to Feature 216 Shaders - Beats Radeon 4870"

turn into this:

price fixing, anti-trust, sue, moral limits, cheating, tweaking not moral, US Law ???????

Aberforth, just don't post anymore. OMFG.

I have every right to post and my first post wasn't off-topic. Maybe you shouldn't post, as a focus group member you definitely shouldn't post any marketing material.

 

[rogue1979]

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Why did this: "New GeForce GTX 260 to Feature 216 Shaders - Beats Radeon 4870"

turn into this:

price fixing, anti-trust, sue, moral limits, cheating, tweaking not moral, US Law ???????

Aberforth, just don't post anymore. OMFG.

At the risk of being banned.... That's not a post becoming of a moderator.

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: rogue1979

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Why did this: "New GeForce GTX 260 to Feature 216 Shaders - Beats Radeon 4870"

turn into this:

price fixing, anti-trust, sue, moral limits, cheating, tweaking not moral, US Law ???????

Aberforth, just don't post anymore. OMFG.

At the risk of being banned.... That's not a post becoming of a moderator.

That is why you should really learn to distinguish between a moderator post, and a member post. Either way, there was nothing wrong with it. If this is what he wants to turn threads into, then he shouldn't post. Period.

 

[Mem]

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Originally posted by: Aberforth

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: Aberforth
man, there is something seriously wrong with this company. They came up with GTX+ to beat 4850 and now this? In other words, bring two new tweaked cards just to destroy the competition and what about the existing customers? I hope someone files a anti-trust suit against them, they are making too many changes in each quarter.

A company improves their line to beat the competition and you are complaining? Anti-trust? I am assuming that was sarcasm. Nvidia owns about 25% of the market. Anti-trust is designed to break up companies with near 100% of the market.

not really, frequent price fixing, limited consumer protection will be called anti-trust in US and NV definitely qualifies for it. However, they won't get sued just for this- i mean there are many companies with this attitude. It only happens if they push everyones moral limits.

And finally, this isn't competition. This is almost cheating, a competitive product has more features at a reasonable price - so the customer will be the one to decide which ones the best not the company. Frequent price fixing or tweaking existing products to stay ahead with limited or no innovation or without proprietary logistics is definitely not moral according to US Law.

Why did this: "New GeForce GTX 260 to Feature 216 Shaders - Beats Radeon 4870"

turn into this:

price fixing, anti-trust, sue, moral limits, cheating, tweaking not moral, US Law ???????

Aberforth, just don't post anymore. OMFG.

keysplayr2003 behave yourself 😉,I can see this debate from both sides however end of the day Nvidia will do what they feel is right to bring stronger competition against AMD/ATI, you got to give credit to AMD/ATi since Nvidia feel they need to release even more models/improvements,anybody here remember the old days when you only had a choice of Only one or two cards,nowadays Nvidia like to make sure you have a wider choice to choose from which can be confusing for the average gamer and lets be honest do we really need so many models,personally I'll be happy with 3 models ie...budget,mid,top but then thats me.

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: Aberforth

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Originally posted by: Aberforth

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: Aberforth
man, there is something seriously wrong with this company. They came up with GTX+ to beat 4850 and now this? In other words, bring two new tweaked cards just to destroy the competition and what about the existing customers? I hope someone files a anti-trust suit against them, they are making too many changes in each quarter.

A company improves their line to beat the competition and you are complaining? Anti-trust? I am assuming that was sarcasm. Nvidia owns about 25% of the market. Anti-trust is designed to break up companies with near 100% of the market.

not really, frequent price fixing, limited consumer protection will be called anti-trust in US and NV definitely qualifies for it. However, they won't get sued just for this- i mean there are many companies with this attitude. It only happens if they push everyones moral limits.

And finally, this isn't competition. This is almost cheating, a competitive product has more features at a reasonable price - so the customer will be the one to decide which ones the best not the company. Frequent price fixing or tweaking existing products to stay ahead with limited or no innovation or without proprietary logistics is definitely not moral according to US Law.

Why did this: "New GeForce GTX 260 to Feature 216 Shaders - Beats Radeon 4870"

turn into this:

price fixing, anti-trust, sue, moral limits, cheating, tweaking not moral, US Law ???????

Aberforth, just don't post anymore. OMFG.

I have every right to post
And I have every right to ask you not to.

and my first post wasn't off-topic.
What about your second? Which happens to be the one I quoted?

Maybe you shouldn't post, as a focus group member you definitely shouldn't post any marketing material.
I haven't.

 

[Aberforth]

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

and my first post wasn't off-topic.
What about your second? Which happens to be the one I quoted?

yes, that went off-topic because I had to clarify Genx87.

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: Mem

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Originally posted by: Aberforth

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: Aberforth
man, there is something seriously wrong with this company. They came up with GTX+ to beat 4850 and now this? In other words, bring two new tweaked cards just to destroy the competition and what about the existing customers? I hope someone files a anti-trust suit against them, they are making too many changes in each quarter.

A company improves their line to beat the competition and you are complaining? Anti-trust? I am assuming that was sarcasm. Nvidia owns about 25% of the market. Anti-trust is designed to break up companies with near 100% of the market.

not really, frequent price fixing, limited consumer protection will be called anti-trust in US and NV definitely qualifies for it. However, they won't get sued just for this- i mean there are many companies with this attitude. It only happens if they push everyones moral limits.

And finally, this isn't competition. This is almost cheating, a competitive product has more features at a reasonable price - so the customer will be the one to decide which ones the best not the company. Frequent price fixing or tweaking existing products to stay ahead with limited or no innovation or without proprietary logistics is definitely not moral according to US Law.

Why did this: "New GeForce GTX 260 to Feature 216 Shaders - Beats Radeon 4870"

turn into this:

price fixing, anti-trust, sue, moral limits, cheating, tweaking not moral, US Law ???????

Aberforth, just don't post anymore. OMFG.

keysplayr2003 behave yourself 😉,I can see this debate from both sides however end of the day Nvidia will do what they feel is right to bring stronger competition against AMD/ATI, you got to give credit to AMD/ATi since Nvidia feel they need to release even more models/improvements,anybody here remember the old days when you only had a choice of Only one or two cards,nowadays Nvidia like to make sure you have a wider choice to choose from which can be confusing for the average gamer and lets be honest do we really need so many models,personally I'll be happy with 3 models ie...budget,mid,top but then thats me.

Believe me, I am. And I do give a lot of credit to ATI/AMD. Competition = Great Times.
I just saw the tangent Aberforth was headed for, and thought it could only serve to derail. Which I find quite annoying. Like talking about silcon morphs into silicone morphs into liposuction. (Extreme I know, but you get the picture).

I'll be good, but Aberforth, stick to the topic at least.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: Aberforth

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: Aberforth
man, there is something seriously wrong with this company. They came up with GTX+ to beat 4850 and now this? In other words, bring two new tweaked cards just to destroy the competition and what about the existing customers? I hope someone files a anti-trust suit against them, they are making too many changes in each quarter.

A company improves their line to beat the competition and you are complaining? Anti-trust? I am assuming that was sarcasm. Nvidia owns about 25% of the market. Anti-trust is designed to break up companies with near 100% of the market.

not really, frequent price fixing, limited consumer protection will be called anti-trust in US and NV definitely qualifies for it. However, they won't get sued just for this- i mean there are many companies with this attitude. It only happens if they push everyones moral limits.

Price fixing would require another company to work with. Who is Nvidia price fixing with? AMD\ATI? Either way price fixing has nothing to do with a revied 260.

And finally, this isn't competition. This is almost cheating, a competitive product has more features at a reasonable price - so the customer will be the one to decide which ones the best not the company. Frequent price fixing or tweaking existing products to stay ahead with limited or no innovation or without proprietary logistics is definitely not moral according to US Law.

This is completely laughable. Cheating because they revise their product line to better line up with the competition?

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: Aberforth

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: Aberforth
man, there is something seriously wrong with this company. They came up with GTX+ to beat 4850 and now this? In other words, bring two new tweaked cards just to destroy the competition and what about the existing customers? I hope someone files a anti-trust suit against them, they are making too many changes in each quarter.

A company improves their line to beat the competition and you are complaining? Anti-trust? I am assuming that was sarcasm. Nvidia owns about 25% of the market. Anti-trust is designed to break up companies with near 100% of the market.

not really, frequent price fixing, limited consumer protection will be called anti-trust in US and NV definitely qualifies for it. However, they won't get sued just for this- i mean there are many companies with this attitude. It only happens if they push everyones moral limits.

Price fixing would require another company to work with. Who is Nvidia price fixing with? AMD\ATI? Either way price fixing has nothing to do with a revied 260.

And finally, this isn't competition. This is almost cheating, a competitive product has more features at a reasonable price - so the customer will be the one to decide which ones the best not the company. Frequent price fixing or tweaking existing products to stay ahead with limited or no innovation or without proprietary logistics is definitely not moral according to US Law.

This is completely laughable. Cheating because they revise their product line to better line up with the competition?

It only serves to derail. Let it go. I have already.

 

[Cookie Monster]

This thread is weird.

Price fixing? people do realise that this applies to both nVIDIA and ATi (and probably other IHVs as well). It would be hilarious for one company to execute this so called "price fixing". Makes no sense at all.

If people want to start a witch hunt, intel should be first on the list or maybe microsoft. Compared to GPU innovations, CPU innovations has come to a crawl.

 

[nemesismk2]

I can't see any problem with Nvidia releasing an improved Geforce GTX 260 to compete with AMD. Don't think I would of liked it if I had just bought a regular Geforce GTX 260 though! 🙁

 

[Aberforth]

Originally posted by: Genx87

This is completely laughable. Cheating because they revise their product line to better line up with the competition?

That depends on frequency of your product line- there is no uniformity and will confuse the stock holders. Like for example: Apple brings new products every year or so, they didn't release iPhone 2g and 3g in just two quarters. Now with nv, if this graphics card turns out to be true- what part of it will be competitive? only 24 extra shader processors? If that isn't competitive, how about the price or dx 10.1 support etc? So this makes everyone question the intentions of the company. And about price fixing, I think nv and it's partners work together more closely when it comes to price.

 

[chizow]

Originally posted by: MarcVenice
What exactly is the point of enabling more shaders and then making it more expensive? With 16 shaders it still be on par with a HD4870 most of the time, and sometimes slightly faster. Not 50$ faster though.

And what will they do with the gtx280, because the difference between the gtx260 and gtx280 will become a bit smaller now.

Looks like it'll be positioned against the 1GB 4870 which has yet to reach the channel with any significant supply. Simlarly, you could say the 1GB 4870's additional performance will not justify the difference in cost, yet people will gladly pay it to avoid potential problems with lack of frame buffer. If the additional 16 SP does boost performance beyond that of the 512MB 4870, it'll retain that speed increase over the 1GB version as well.

Originally posted by: Aberforth
And finally, this isn't competition. This is almost cheating, a competitive product has more features at a reasonable price - so the customer will be the one to decide which ones the best not the company. Frequent price fixing or tweaking existing products to stay ahead with limited or no innovation or without proprietary logistics is definitely not moral according to US Law.

Huh? You have the right to post just as Keys and others were right on to call you out for going on this BS tangent, its not the first time and it certainly won't be the last. 🙂

Remember what happened last time people were claiming price fixing/anti-trust against NV? They conveniently failed to mention ATI was also named in the law suit, which was ultimately thrown out because NV had no direct culpability while ATI did. I'm guessing the law suit was dropped because the plaintiff had an axe to grind with NV or realized there wasn't any point going after ATI since they're flat broke. 😉

But to characterize "frequent price fixing or tweaking existing products to stay ahead with limited or no innovation" being immoral, let's play who said that with the following:

It?s been commonplace in the semiconductor industry to disable parts of a chip so you can sell it at various price points ? we?ve been doing it in the graphics industry for as long as I remember. It would be a mistake to assume our....chips are being produced only because one of cores is broken or not working ? it has more to do with adjusting a product to make it fit at a particular price point. Certainly, there will be instances where a particular core does not work, but in other cases, we will have disabled a core, so we can sell it at a particular price point. It?s nothing new in the semiconducutor space ? it?s only new in the CPU space.

Next thing you're going to say is its immoral to bin and price CPUs according to speed and clock multipliers.......

 

[Cookie Monster]

IMO having those extra shaders + TMUs and other units enabled due to the extra TPC is better off than a product that has been clock bumped by say ~50MHz with the tag "Platinum Edition" or "Ultra Extreme" on them.