New GeForce GTX 260 to Feature 216 Shaders - Beats Radeon 4870

[Wreckage]

Originally posted by: MarcVenice
Chizow, I think there are even less people that OC their GPU then people that OC their CPU. I don't for one, it just seems riskier to me, I can't control thermals as good as I can with my

This is why I recommend a factory overclocked 260. You don't have to mess with or worry about anything. It's faster right out of the box with a full warranty. :thumbsup:

 

[Zstream]

Originally posted by: apoppin

i seriously doubt you are going to get much over 820/1150 without burning up your 4870 even with good cooling .. they don't have much room after that

Umm I have my 4850 at 750/1100... with my accelero II/120mm kit. My pc room is 82F, anyways that is funny, well your quote is at least.

 

[nitromullet]

Originally posted by: apoppin
no .. i already have a 512MB Sapphire 4870; it was insufficient for 19x12 imo. i got the VT 4870x2 on the Best Buy deal *and* i am also getting a BFG Tech [the one that overheats] GTX280 so i can review all three graphics cards [with maybe an oldie thrown in in - an 8800GTX; so you can get an idea what this gen is like over last]. i am *guessing* i can neuter my 280 > GT260+ [more or less, by disabling a TMU and underclocking] and get that kind of approximate comparison.

On top of all that, i am going to try and compare my 4870/512 with the 1GB version by disabling a core of my X2 to see what i get. It should be damn close to the 1GB version. AND .. i will also up grade my p35 crossfire mb to an ASUS x48 that will be flashed into rampage. Since 3.33Ghz is slow with my GPUs, i am hoping for 4.5Ghz [if i get e0] with my new e8500. Since my current ddr2 pc6400 only gets 900Mhz, i got 2x2GB PC8500 that should oc to 1200

so .. i got some major comparisons and reviews coming out of this HW i am getting tomorrow.
- i am *dying* to look at PhysX with the GTX280/8800gtx and also see about Foh and finally CUDA. The current tech reviews barely touch on what i am interested in
==========================================

Cool. I was interested in the same sort of comparisons, but I wasn't quite as ambitious as you. My thread on the comparisons I did between GTX 280 and 4870 X2 in case you missed it: http://forums.anandtech.com/me...id=31&threadid=2220889

 

[JACKDRUID]

Originally posted by: Wreckage

Originally posted by: JACKDRUID

260 is the better card due to Physx support (IMO very important).

but performance-wise, 4870 is definately a tiny bit faster/better.

The combination of newer drivers, factory overclocking and more memory have put the GTX260 above the 4870 performance wise. Feature wise, CUDA has NVIDIA years ahead.

Actually I consider both to be equal in term of performance per buck (should be very close anyway)

But I'd take physx over dx10.1 anyday.

 

[splicer707]

Noobness here.

So a current factory overclocked GTX260 is about as fast as the new GTX260 (without overclocking)?
I wonder how long before these new GTX260 will start to appear in Australia.

 

[ViRGE]

Okay people, let's bring things back on topic before I have to bring out the Board of Education. If it's not about the new 260, then it's not on-topic and goes in a separate thread. Violate this at your own peril.

-ViRGE

 

[SolMiester]

Originally posted by: Aberforth

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: Aberforth
man, there is something seriously wrong with this company. They came up with GTX+ to beat 4850 and now this? In other words, bring two new tweaked cards just to destroy the competition and what about the existing customers? I hope someone files a anti-trust suit against them, they are making too many changes in each quarter.

A company improves their line to beat the competition and you are complaining? Anti-trust? I am assuming that was sarcasm. Nvidia owns about 25% of the market. Anti-trust is designed to break up companies with near 100% of the market.

not really, frequent price fixing, limited consumer protection will be called anti-trust in US and NV definitely qualifies for it. However, they won't get sued just for this- i mean there are many companies with this attitude. It only happens if they push everyones moral limits.

And finally, this isn't competition. This is almost cheating, a competitive product has more features at a reasonable price - so the customer will be the one to decide which ones the best not the company. Frequent price fixing or tweaking existing products to stay ahead with limited or no innovation or without proprietary logistics is definitely not moral according to US Law.

OMG, I laughed when I read this....sounds like a spoilt child to me, complaining that the neighbor has a toy better than yours.....Anyway, what has NV got to do with US Law, the US is NOT the world police.....

 

[Zstream]

huh? Nvidia is based in the us so it abides by US laws. Anywho this is not about the 260 which is a good card on par with the 4870.

 

[myocardia]

Originally posted by: Creig
Better? Because it can do PhysX? The 4870 is definitely FASTER than a GTX260. And that is the most important criteria when comparing enthusiast caliber video cards.

Checkbox features, obviously. That's all that seems to be talked about in this forum lately-- DX10.1 & PhysX.

Originally posted by: RussianSensation
Good link chizow!

The problem with the statement that GTX 260 is better is that there are particular games which perform better on the ATI card (GRID, Bioschock just to name a few) and some perform better on the NVidia card (mass Effect). But for the most part, neither card will provide a more playable environment. In other cases the extra ram of the GTX helps it secure a victory. While ATI card runs quieter, it emits more heat. While NV has PhysX, ATI has DX10.1. While NV has superior AF quality, ATi card has great 8AA performance - 1600x1200 8AA performance. Then you have the advantage of EVGA step up while none of the ATI partners offer this.

The point is, both cards have their advantages. It's pretty hard to claim that one is 'superior' to the other - it depends on the games one wants to play, current pricing and which of these advantages more important to the buyer.

Could someone ban this guy? I thought everyone knew that logic wasn't allowed in the AT video forum.:laugh: Great post, BTW. I agreed with every word of it, and that's fairly rare for me.

 

[SolMiester]

Originally posted by: nitromullet
The part about this I don't get and annoys me is the name. Why does NV continue to reuse the same names for slightly different products? With a small increase is shaders and price that places it between the current GTX 260 and GTX 280, isn't the obvious name for this card "GTX 270"?

With you on that!....:thumbsup:

 

[CreasianDevaili]

If the new 260gtx does better than i am all for it. It just pushed ATI to also push higher next time as well. Coming from a HD4870 Crossfire user, I am utterly happy with my setup yes, but I dont wish Nvidia harm. I want them around as do I for ATI.

I do however see alot of subjective opinions. Some seem to think thatbecause it is optimal for them it is the same for everyone. Some dont oc, never will, and dont care about it. They feel that if it was meant to be at that clock then it should come that way. A factor for some, not one for others, and is subjective and not a CORE feature due to it being highly regulated by the bin of your card and your own knowledge.

DX10.1 and CUDA are also the same. Someone might have went with the HD4870 for starcraft 2 and diablo 3. They dont plan to upgrade for a very long time. Good for them you know? They bought the card for the games that they want to play, and made a good decision. Should their optimal setup for them be torn down and called inferior because they dont care how games they never plan to play perform? No. If someone REALLY wants to play the new Total War game coming out and use physx/cuda, they they should get the t200 series.

My games? mmorpgs and diablo 3. My setup will tear those up. So i am happy. The 260gtx is a step in the right direction as it isnt just a higher binned and factory oc'ed card with a few non critical changes and a new naming scheme. If they actually improve the internal parts of the card that matter then I see nothing wrong with nvidia doing it the right way.

Relatively, the 4870 and 260, even with this change, should be better or worse for select users still. Neither is top dog. Why it warrants all this hostility I am not sure. If this was the 280gtx/4870x2 then i could see the sheer competition..

But no matter what these cards are all just second best, as to the hd4870 and 260gtx, compared to their higher tiered counterparts. I figured this segment would be much more relaxed!


I personally have little loyalty to a certain make of cards. I will go with good performance on either side. When i hit nehalem i will have to make the decision to go SLI or crossfire again. Who knows. I might go with ati again or go back to nvidia. Maybe i will even go with AMD's Shanghai.

All i know is that this 260gtx will help in the push for better parts when i upgrade again. So it is a win situation for me. I am happy as a smurf right now with my crossfire setup, I am happy that competition now is going to make it better for ALL OF US later, and I just benefit all around.

 

[SolMiester]

Originally posted by: Zstream
huh? Nvidia is based in the us so it abides by US laws. Anywho this is not about the 260 which is a good card on par with the 4870.

Oops, failure there, why was I under the impression NVidia was in Taiwan?

 

[cmdrdredd]

Originally posted by: JACKDRUID

Originally posted by: Wreckage

Originally posted by: JACKDRUID

260 is the better card due to Physx support (IMO very important).

but performance-wise, 4870 is definately a tiny bit faster/better.

The combination of newer drivers, factory overclocking and more memory have put the GTX260 above the 4870 performance wise. Feature wise, CUDA has NVIDIA years ahead.

Actually I consider both to be equal in term of performance per buck (should be very close anyway)

But I'd take physx over dx10.1 anyday.

Not me since physx adds nothing to the games it's enabled on. You are not missing out if you don't have physx. There hopefully will be a benefit for DX10.1 soon with new games. Physix, well I've seen what it can do and I don't see the point.

 

[RussianSensation]

Originally posted by: myocardia

Could someone ban this guy? I thought everyone knew that logic wasn't allowed in the AT video forum.:laugh: Great post, BTW. I agreed with every word of it, and that's fairly rare for me.

Thanks myocardia! :beer:

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Zstream

Originally posted by: apoppin

i seriously doubt you are going to get much over 820/1150 without burning up your 4870 even with good cooling .. they don't have much room after that

Umm I have my 4850 at 750/1100... with my accelero II/120mm kit. My pc room is 82F, anyways that is funny, well your quote is at least.

i don't understand; my 4870 gets 810/1150 with the stock cooler; my room's ambient temps are the same as yours 79-82F and i have the cooler set higher for my OC. My *opinion* - from what i read - is that the GT260 has more headroom for O/C'ing than the 4870.

i am trying to point out that the 4850 is not out of headroom - compared to its STOCK clock .. they 4870 is .. at 810/1150 i am pretty much at the limit of my card and i usually back it down to 790/1100. My 4870x2 has even less headroom as it is hot at 800/1000.

otoh, the GT260 seems to have a lot more room to OC than the 4870 - look at the OC'd models out compared with the mild OCs of the Radeon. It stand to reason the + will be faster still - at least equal to the OC'd clocks of the current 260. Something to convincingly beat the 1GB 4870 [even the OC'd versions] and still not quite threaten the GTX280.
- at least that is how i see Nvidia's positioning of it new 260.
=====================

Originally posted by: nitromullet

Originally posted by: apoppin
no .. i already have a 512MB Sapphire 4870; it was insufficient for 19x12 imo. i got the VT 4870x2 on the Best Buy deal *and* i am also getting a BFG Tech [the one that overheats] GTX280 so i can review all three graphics cards [with maybe an oldie thrown in in - an 8800GTX; so you can get an idea what this gen is like over last]. i am *guessing* i can neuter my 280 > GT260+ [more or less, by disabling a TMU and underclocking] and get that kind of approximate comparison.

On top of all that, i am going to try and compare my 4870/512 with the 1GB version by disabling a core of my X2 to see what i get. It should be damn close to the 1GB version. AND .. i will also up grade my p35 crossfire mb to an ASUS x48 that will be flashed into rampage. Since 3.33Ghz is slow with my GPUs, i am hoping for 4.5Ghz [if i get e0] with my new e8500. Since my current ddr2 pc6400 only gets 900Mhz, i got 2x2GB PC8500 that should oc to 1200

so .. i got some major comparisons and reviews coming out of this HW i am getting tomorrow.
- i am *dying* to look at PhysX with the GTX280/8800gtx and also see about Foh and finally CUDA. The current tech reviews barely touch on what i am interested in
==========================================

Cool. I was interested in the same sort of comparisons, but I wasn't quite as ambitious as you. My thread on the comparisons I did between GTX 280 and 4870 X2 in case you missed it: http://forums.anandtech.com/me...id=31&threadid=2220889

i actually have to be ambitious; i am reviewing for a new tech site . . . and i did see your thread , thank-you. It appears to me the 280 might be more "solid" in Crysis than the X2 and i am going to explore Micro stutter with a friend - so we will have a review together, i think. i was not at all happy with my 4870 and Crysis at 19x12; not smooth; the x2 is solid in comparison.

Don't you think you CPU's core speed is holding you back? Mine at 3.33Ghz is not fast enough for my X2; i am getting only slightly better FPS - but often times with far more filtering applied than with the single 4870

i am hoping to simulate GT260+ performance - but i guess i need to wait for a later version of RivaTuner that will allow me to disable TMUs with Tesla. I know i will be able to get "close" by underclocking my GTX280.

i guess you decided to keep the GTX280 overclocked instead of your 4870x2

that says something

 

[imaheadcase]

Ok to recap for you guys.

Its not just the shaders increase. The clocks are also increasing because of die shrink.

 

[shangshang]

Dammmmmm... niceeeee! Somebody is going to be looking to pawn his 4850 on Ebay!

 

[splicer707]

So, wow. These new video cards are due by the end of September?!

 

[dug777]

Originally posted by: imaheadcase
Ok to recap for you guys.

Its not just the shaders increase. The clocks are also increasing because of die shrink.

Wait, so this is 55nm and faster too? Link?

Ff so, they're going to have to push the GTX 280 up quite a bit to keep the brackets meaningful...

 

[BFG10K]

Originally posted by: imaheadcase

Its not just the shaders increase. The clocks are also increasing because of die shrink.

Eh? Last I checked it was still 65 nm.

 

[Hauk]

Didn't expect to see many surprised by this move. It's the logical course of action, enable what's already there in order to beat the competition. The sometimes questionable margin 260 had over 4870 will certainly widen with a shader/clock increase. This battle doesn't interest me however. What'll be interesting is if it's big brother will feature a shader increase.

Entertainment value, priceless. :thumbsup:

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: cmdrdredd

Originally posted by: JACKDRUID

Originally posted by: Wreckage

Originally posted by: JACKDRUID

260 is the better card due to Physx support (IMO very important).

but performance-wise, 4870 is definately a tiny bit faster/better.

The combination of newer drivers, factory overclocking and more memory have put the GTX260 above the 4870 performance wise. Feature wise, CUDA has NVIDIA years ahead.

Actually I consider both to be equal in term of performance per buck (should be very close anyway)

But I'd take physx over dx10.1 anyday.

Not me since physx adds nothing to the games it's enabled on. You are not missing out if you don't have physx. There hopefully will be a benefit for DX10.1 soon with new games. Physix, well I've seen what it can do and I don't see the point.

I'm gonna assume you saw what PhysX can do on a friends PC? Or other? Or did you have an 8 series card or better before your 4870?

 

[dug777]

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Originally posted by: cmdrdredd

Originally posted by: JACKDRUID

Originally posted by: Wreckage

Originally posted by: JACKDRUID

260 is the better card due to Physx support (IMO very important).

but performance-wise, 4870 is definately a tiny bit faster/better.

The combination of newer drivers, factory overclocking and more memory have put the GTX260 above the 4870 performance wise. Feature wise, CUDA has NVIDIA years ahead.

Actually I consider both to be equal in term of performance per buck (should be very close anyway)

But I'd take physx over dx10.1 anyday.

Not me since physx adds nothing to the games it's enabled on. You are not missing out if you don't have physx. There hopefully will be a benefit for DX10.1 soon with new games. Physix, well I've seen what it can do and I don't see the point.

I'm gonna assume you saw what PhysX can do on a friends PC? Or other? Or did you have an 8 series card or better before your 4870?

Just out of interest, do any of the physX titles thus realeased or planned to be released counter his point? Do you need a nVidia card to actually play the game in any different way, or does it just make cool peripheral stuff happen without affecting the actual mechanics of the gameplay, the guts of it.

I think that would be best most effective way to address his comment.

Otherwise he's right. If two people can play the same game, in the same way, with an ATI and nVidia card respectively, and the only difference is the nVidia player gets to see some fancy physX rendered extra content, then you're not actually missing out on the gameplay.

I'm assuming that the games do counter his point, and personally I'm interested too

 

[imaheadcase]

Originally posted by: BFG10K

Originally posted by: imaheadcase

Its not just the shaders increase. The clocks are also increasing because of die shrink.

Eh? Last I checked it was still 65 nm.

How did you check when its not out yet?

 

[dug777]

Originally posted by: imaheadcase

Originally posted by: BFG10K

Originally posted by: imaheadcase

Its not just the shaders increase. The clocks are also increasing because of die shrink.

Eh? Last I checked it was still 65 nm.

How did you check when its not out yet?

One could ask the same question of you