New Cuba Thread

[SickBeast]

We'll see how well this flies this time around.

I got in this Sunday from a week in Varadero at a 4-star resort. We witnessed tropical storm Fay which was pretty interesting.

To be honest, what is happening there politically did bother me quite a bit this trip. The fact that the Cuban people are not allowed to leave the island really does hit a nerve within me. I hold freedom as a core value, and that aspect of their society caused me some moral friction.

Freedom aside, the Cuban people looked very healthy and they have an absolutely magnificent culture; one which is truly unmatched by all of my travels worldwide.

Again I had a lovely trip. What struck me as interesting was the fact that the US boycotts them while committing war crimes on their soil at Guantanamo Bay. What happened in 1959 is also quite fascinating. I'm curious as to how and why the elite there left so quietly.

 

[nick1985]

I remember your last Cuba thread. lol

 

[SickBeast]

Originally posted by: nick1985
I remember your last Cuba thread. lol

Yeah, jealousy brings out all kinds of responses from people.

 

[nick1985]

Originally posted by: SickBeast

Originally posted by: nick1985
I remember your last Cuba thread. lol

Yeah, jealousy brings out all kinds of responses from people.

Sure does.

 

[marincounty]

Originally posted by: SickBeast
We'll see how well this flies this time around.

I got in this Sunday from a week in Varadero at a 4-star resort. We witnessed tropical storm Fay which was pretty interesting.

To be honest, what is happening there politically did bother me quite a bit this trip. The fact that the Cuban people are not allowed to leave the island really does hit a nerve within me. I hold freedom as a core value, and that aspect of their society caused me some moral friction.
Freedom aside, the Cuban people looked very healthy and they have an absolutely magnificent culture; one which is truly unmatched by all of my travels worldwide.

Again I had a lovely trip. What struck me as interesting was the fact that the US boycotts them while committing war crimes on their soil at Guantanamo Bay. What happened in 1959 is also quite fascinating. I'm curious as to how and why the elite there left so quietly.

The fact that I as an American citizen am not allowed by the US government to visit Cuba bothers me quite a bit. Does it bother you?
I can visit communist China or Vietnam. WTF

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: SickBeast I'm curious as to how and why the elite there left so quietly.

um, the US pulled it's support for batista after castro spent the whole of the revolution hiding in the mountains while everyone else fought. the elites were mostly at batista's new year's party, and batista never showed up. they figured out he'd left (or someone ran in and announced it), so they all left too.


somewhere around here i've got a box full of books on the cuban and mexican revolutions

 

[SickBeast]

Originally posted by: marincounty

Originally posted by: SickBeast
We'll see how well this flies this time around.

I got in this Sunday from a week in Varadero at a 4-star resort. We witnessed tropical storm Fay which was pretty interesting.

To be honest, what is happening there politically did bother me quite a bit this trip. The fact that the Cuban people are not allowed to leave the island really does hit a nerve within me. I hold freedom as a core value, and that aspect of their society caused me some moral friction.
Freedom aside, the Cuban people looked very healthy and they have an absolutely magnificent culture; one which is truly unmatched by all of my travels worldwide.

Again I had a lovely trip. What struck me as interesting was the fact that the US boycotts them while committing war crimes on their soil at Guantanamo Bay. What happened in 1959 is also quite fascinating. I'm curious as to how and why the elite there left so quietly.

The fact that I as an American citizen am not allowed by the US government to visit Cuba bothers me quite a bit. Does it bother you?
I can visit communist China or Vietnam. WTF

Apparently the boycott circles around the sugar cane exports of Cuba; for whatever reason the US government is concerned that it would disrupt their economy.

The boycott doesn't bother me; I just got back from there. I'm Canadian. You guys re-elected Bush (unless Diebold did) and it's your own problem at this point. If you want the boycott lifted, lobby your government. The squeaky wheel gets the oil.

To be honest, as a Canadian I like the boycott. Most of the institutional stuff in Cuba was built by Canadians, and no offense intended, but it's nice to be able to visit a place where there are no Americans (just for a break; it's nothing personal).

I can only imagine what would happen to Cuba if the boycott were to be lifted. The place would become overdeveloped and overrun by American tourists.

 

[Sinsear]

Marked for later. (i've got to dig up the other Cuba is paradise thread).

Edit: I see you've had it deleted. Shame. So much pwnage.

 

[Sinsear]

Originally posted by: SickBeast

Originally posted by: marincounty

Originally posted by: SickBeast
We'll see how well this flies this time around.

I got in this Sunday from a week in Varadero at a 4-star resort. We witnessed tropical storm Fay which was pretty interesting.

To be honest, what is happening there politically did bother me quite a bit this trip. The fact that the Cuban people are not allowed to leave the island really does hit a nerve within me. I hold freedom as a core value, and that aspect of their society caused me some moral friction.
Freedom aside, the Cuban people looked very healthy and they have an absolutely magnificent culture; one which is truly unmatched by all of my travels worldwide.

Again I had a lovely trip. What struck me as interesting was the fact that the US boycotts them while committing war crimes on their soil at Guantanamo Bay. What happened in 1959 is also quite fascinating. I'm curious as to how and why the elite there left so quietly.

The fact that I as an American citizen am not allowed by the US government to visit Cuba bothers me quite a bit. Does it bother you?
I can visit communist China or Vietnam. WTF

Apparently the boycott circles around the sugar cane exports of Cuba; for whatever reason the US government is concerned that it would disrupt their economy.

The boycott doesn't bother me; I just got back from there. I'm Canadian. You guys re-elected Bush (unless Diebold did) and it's your own problem at this point. If you want the boycott lifted, lobby your government. The squeaky wheel gets the oil.

To be honest, as a Canadian I like the boycott. Most of the institutional stuff in Cuba was built by Canadians, and no offense intended, but it's nice to be able to visit a place where there are no Americans (just for a break; it's nothing personal).

I can only imagine what would happen to Cuba if the boycott were to be lifted. The place would become overdeveloped and overrun by American tourists.

Awesome. America bashing round 2.

 

[nick1985]

Originally posted by: Sinsear

Originally posted by: SickBeast

Originally posted by: marincounty

Originally posted by: SickBeast
We'll see how well this flies this time around.

I got in this Sunday from a week in Varadero at a 4-star resort. We witnessed tropical storm Fay which was pretty interesting.

To be honest, what is happening there politically did bother me quite a bit this trip. The fact that the Cuban people are not allowed to leave the island really does hit a nerve within me. I hold freedom as a core value, and that aspect of their society caused me some moral friction.
Freedom aside, the Cuban people looked very healthy and they have an absolutely magnificent culture; one which is truly unmatched by all of my travels worldwide.

Again I had a lovely trip. What struck me as interesting was the fact that the US boycotts them while committing war crimes on their soil at Guantanamo Bay. What happened in 1959 is also quite fascinating. I'm curious as to how and why the elite there left so quietly.

The fact that I as an American citizen am not allowed by the US government to visit Cuba bothers me quite a bit. Does it bother you?
I can visit communist China or Vietnam. WTF

Apparently the boycott circles around the sugar cane exports of Cuba; for whatever reason the US government is concerned that it would disrupt their economy.

The boycott doesn't bother me; I just got back from there. I'm Canadian. You guys re-elected Bush (unless Diebold did) and it's your own problem at this point. If you want the boycott lifted, lobby your government. The squeaky wheel gets the oil.

To be honest, as a Canadian I like the boycott. Most of the institutional stuff in Cuba was built by Canadians, and no offense intended, but it's nice to be able to visit a place where there are no Americans (just for a break; it's nothing personal).

I can only imagine what would happen to Cuba if the boycott were to be lifted. The place would become overdeveloped and overrun by American tourists.

Awesome. America bashing round 2.

He learned his lesson though, by posting this in P&N instead of OT. The America Bashing is much better recieved here than in OT.

 

[Sinsear]

Originally posted by: nick1985

Originally posted by: Sinsear

Originally posted by: SickBeast

Originally posted by: marincounty

Originally posted by: SickBeast
We'll see how well this flies this time around.

I got in this Sunday from a week in Varadero at a 4-star resort. We witnessed tropical storm Fay which was pretty interesting.

To be honest, what is happening there politically did bother me quite a bit this trip. The fact that the Cuban people are not allowed to leave the island really does hit a nerve within me. I hold freedom as a core value, and that aspect of their society caused me some moral friction.
Freedom aside, the Cuban people looked very healthy and they have an absolutely magnificent culture; one which is truly unmatched by all of my travels worldwide.

Again I had a lovely trip. What struck me as interesting was the fact that the US boycotts them while committing war crimes on their soil at Guantanamo Bay. What happened in 1959 is also quite fascinating. I'm curious as to how and why the elite there left so quietly.

The fact that I as an American citizen am not allowed by the US government to visit Cuba bothers me quite a bit. Does it bother you?
I can visit communist China or Vietnam. WTF

Apparently the boycott circles around the sugar cane exports of Cuba; for whatever reason the US government is concerned that it would disrupt their economy.

The boycott doesn't bother me; I just got back from there. I'm Canadian. You guys re-elected Bush (unless Diebold did) and it's your own problem at this point. If you want the boycott lifted, lobby your government. The squeaky wheel gets the oil.

To be honest, as a Canadian I like the boycott. Most of the institutional stuff in Cuba was built by Canadians, and no offense intended, but it's nice to be able to visit a place where there are no Americans (just for a break; it's nothing personal).

I can only imagine what would happen to Cuba if the boycott were to be lifted. The place would become overdeveloped and overrun by American tourists.

Awesome. America bashing round 2.

He learned his lesson though, by posting this in P&N instead of OT. The America Bashing is much better recieved here than in OT.

Yeah, makes him no less of a douche for it though. I love how he even opened with the:

We'll see how well this flies this time around.

Clever disguise for "by the 7th post i'll start america bashing"

 

[SickBeast]

Originally posted by: Sinsear
Clever disguise for "by the 7th post i'll start america bashing"

If you see it as bashing, that reveals an issue within yourself.

 

[nismotigerwvu]

Honestly, I really don't care if someone irrationally hates my country. It automatically invalidates any point they presenting about us being bigots or anything of the like, as anyone who would stereotype 305 million people with one broad stroke has zero credibility.
The qualifier "Don't be offended by this" is by no means a solution to saying something offensive. If you truly did not wish to offend someone, you would just bite your tongue, or simply find a better way of making your statement.
Cuba is an interesting place, but I personally prefer the Dominican Republic. All of the reputable Cuban cigar makers moved there around the time of the revolution and the soil is more fertile anyways.

 

[Infohawk]

Veradero is a resort town. I hope you're not trying to generalize based on that.

The U.S. government deserves to be bashed for not letting its citizens go to Cuba. Let the Cubans worry about their sucky government.

 

[nismotigerwvu]

Originally posted by: SickBeast

Originally posted by: Sinsear
Clever disguise for "by the 7th post i'll start america bashing"

If you see it as bashing, that reveals an issue within yourself.

And your refusal to consider the possibility that someone may have an opinion that isn't exactly the same as yours reveals an alarming level of immaturity.

 

[SickBeast]

Originally posted by: nismotigerwvu

Originally posted by: SickBeast

Originally posted by: Sinsear
Clever disguise for "by the 7th post i'll start america bashing"

If you see it as bashing, that reveals an issue within yourself.

And your refusal to consider the possibility that someone may have an opinion that isn't exactly the same as yours reveals an alarming level of immaturity.

Not really. I'm the author of the thread, and my intent was not "America Bashing". That's left to the reader's interpretation. The fact that some of you are seeing it as such strikes of a deeper issue within yourselves.

 

[SickBeast]

Originally posted by: nismotigerwvu
Honestly, I really don't care if someone irrationally hates my country. It automatically invalidates any point they presenting about us being bigots or anything of the like, as anyone who would stereotype 305 million people with one broad stroke has zero credibility.
The qualifier "Don't be offended by this" is by no means a solution to saying something offensive. If you truly did not wish to offend someone, you would just bite your tongue, or simply find a better way of making your statement.
Cuba is an interesting place, but I personally prefer the Dominican Republic. All of the reputable Cuban cigar makers moved there around the time of the revolution and the soil is more fertile anyways.

I don't hate your country. To a certain extent I hate your government. I hate my own government to a certain extent as well.

If you find the comments offensive, as I said, it's a reflection of yourself.

 

[SickBeast]

Originally posted by: Infohawk
Veradero is a resort town. I hope you're not trying to generalize based on that.

The U.S. government deserves to be bashed for not letting its citizens go to Cuba. Let the Cubans worry about their sucky government.

You assume that I've been to Varadero and that's it. My wife has described Havana to me and some of the poverty she saw, but really it doesn't sound much different from the homeless problem we have here in Toronto.

Cuba is a communist nation where pretty much everyone has their entire life paid for by the government, and they are left with around $10 to spend themselves per month. You can make more money as a maid in a Cuban resort than you can as a medical doctor. As such, I feel that it's fair to assume that there is not much variation in terms of the living standard nationwide.

 

[SickBeast]

Infohawk, have you been to Cuba?

 

[ProfJohn]

Originally posted by: SickBeast
The fact that the Cuban people are not allowed to leave the island really does hit a nerve within me. I hold freedom as a core value, and that aspect of their society caused me some moral friction.

Then why the hell did you go to that country???!!!!

Do you realize that people like you are helping the government to imprison its population by providing it with much needed currency.

Aren't there other islands you could visit that have much better human rights records?

 

[Infohawk]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Then why the hell did you go to that country???!!!!

Do you realize that people like you are helping the government to imprison its population by providing it with much needed currency.

Aren't there other islands you could visit that have much better human rights records?

Your reasoning is silly. One could equally argue that engaging in commerce with Cuba increases the odds it will free itself.

Do you think people should not be allowed to go to China?

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: Infohawk One could equally argue that engaging in commerce with Cuba increases the odds it will free itself.

that was bill's belief, after all. most-favored-nation status and all that.

Originally posted by: SickBeast
Apparently the boycott circles around the sugar cane exports of Cuba; for whatever reason the US government is concerned that it would disrupt their economy.

pre-revolution we were paying above world market prices for cuban sugar. cuba had it's own special place within the US tariff system for sugar.

the embargo circles around the fact that a bunch of US property was expropriated by cuba (well, it actually started as an arms embargo against both sides during the revolution, and then was expanded when cuba expropriated all US property in cuba).


floriduh electoral politics basically dictates that the embargo will remain in place until the cubans in floriduh want it gone. just like how both obama and mccain are falling all over themselves to increase nasa's budget so that a lot of floridians can keep their jobs. it has little to do with bush being president.

 

[SickBeast]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Originally posted by: SickBeast
The fact that the Cuban people are not allowed to leave the island really does hit a nerve within me. I hold freedom as a core value, and that aspect of their society caused me some moral friction.

Then why the hell did you go to that country???!!!!

Do you realize that people like you are helping the government to imprison its population by providing it with much needed currency.

Aren't there other islands you could visit that have much better human rights records?

Pretty much every nation in the Caribbean is a banana republic of one sort or another. The living standard in Cuba is probably among the best, if not the best, in Latin America aside from perhaps Brazil.

I needed a vacation.

Human rights are only one part of the equation.

As Infohawk said, by giving the Cuban people money while I was there, in a sense I am empowering them to free themselves.

If you look back historically, when things have gotten bad enough, the populace has revolted, time and time again. If I were Cuban, I'm not sure I would revolt. They seem to do ok; they're poor but they have life's necessities. Their government says that they can't leave the island, but there are ways, such as marrying a foreigner or building a nice and fast boat.

 

[SAWYER]

So what was so great about their culture that isn't matched anywhere?

 

[DanceMan]

Originally posted by: SickBeast
....
Cuba is a communist nation where pretty much everyone has their entire life paid for by the government, and they are left with around $10 to spend themselves per month. You can make more money as a maid in a Cuban resort than you can as a medical doctor. As such, I feel that it's fair to assume that there is not much variation in terms of the living standard nationwide.

No, it's exactly because the maids get the tips of the tourists -- which is hard cash. The medical doctors are employed by the government, and the pay is not that much. And most of the tourist jobs, even 'maid' jobs, are given by patronage. That 'maid' may have a college degree, but works as a maid just for the good tips.

Most Cubans are actually pretty good entrepreneurs, and very economical. They have a way of living that's comfortable, even if it would normally be considered 'poor'. And there is much difference between poor and rich Cuba, just like any other society. And to think that their life is compleatly paid for by the government is not true. They get healthcare and pretty good early education, and that's about it.