New Chicago Handgun Law was approved

[Zargon]

http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2008/offenses/expanded_information/homicide.html

Expanded Homicide Data



That was for 2008 from the FBI. The people murdered in 2008 were killed by either a family member or aquaintance to the fat tune of 78%.

71% were knocked off by a gun

Circumstances-42 percent during stupid arguments.

Do these numbers sound familar? These numbers are similar to the CDC numbers of 2 years prior concerning the 16 states.

Let me guess, the numbers are mis-interpreted, taken out of context, a lie, not important, or the best one yet the FBI is anti-gun.

Oh and you gun slingers accounted for stopping less than .5% of all the murders in the country in 2008. But 42% of the murders were committed by morons like yall. Not criminals, but dumb, stupid, retarded, slobs like yourselves. Yea, classical is bringing the noise.....with a little fluff and flare

As before link is provided.























Pale you Dummy, Tell me again, more guns equal................what exactly?

He takes the feed from Savard, Classy shoots and he SCORESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS
Top shelf! Top shelf! Top shelf!

First, thanks for finding real #'s from a legit source. the tie in with the CDC probably means the CDC actually just took a piece of the FBI's data

but now down to the real issue at hand:
ever heard the saying correlation doesnt equal causation?

what does knowing the person have to do with gun crime? you are more likely to have someone near you be involved in a crime against you? WOW not suprising

thats like the stupid stat that 80% of accidents happen within a few miles of the home. duh, you spend most of your time in that circle, you are more likely to get into an argument with joe blow down the street that some dude across town because, he lives near you.

you have showed ZERO causation of legally owned firearms causing crime. where the stats for the % of those guns ownership? how many were illegally procured non registered guns?

you think those 72% of murders will go away if there are no guns? they won't, making it slightly less convenient wont make it go away. not to mention, criminals, still gunna have guns. But now the estimated 2.5m gun self defense instances become burglaries robberies and murders.

 

[Zargon]

http://www.journal.com.ph/index.php/national/10996-gun-summit-draws-mixed-proposals.html


http://catb.org/~esr/guns/aiming.html

Myth No. 4: Gun control laws keep criminals from obtaining guns. In surveys of prisoners, a majority report that they had owned a handgun prior to their imprisonment. But only 7 percent of criminals' handguns are obtained from legitimate retail sources. Three-fourths of felons surveyed report they would have no trouble obtaining a gun when they were released, despite legal prohibitions against firearms ownership by convicted felons.

 

[bfdd]

Concerning the relationships (if known) of murder victims and offenders, 23.3 percent of victims were slain by family members, 22.0 percent were murdered by strangers, and 54.7 percent were killed by acquaintances (neighbor, friend, boyfriend, etc.). (Based on Expanded Homicide Data Table 10.)

Just as the CDC report pointed out that when the known relationship is indentified, it accounts to over 70% of the time the death was the result of a family member or acquaintance. There is really no reason to believe that the unknown which if discovered would fall into that same category. Of course you won't see it that way because....well you know. But feel free to read and understand the FBI report, feel free. Get a cup of coffee, take a load off, get your read on. LOL

I don't get what this post is supposed to mean. Are you saying that if you get killed there's a high chance it was someone you knew? If so everyone knows that. You should look up the percentage of people who are killed by their loved ones or friends with knives. It's probably higher than 70%.

 

[chucky2]

1. it doesn't happen so often that a guy comes into your house and kills you before stealing. Most thiefs either wait for people to get out or just point a knife at you.

Perhaps I wasn't totally clear in my post: I don't care if he's simply robbing me, pointing a knife at me, trying to kill me, whatever. The point is, there's someone in my house that shouldn't be there. The only effective deterrent that I can count on is a gun. I may have to shoot him, I may just have to brandish it and threaten. Either way, I actually need the gun to effectively deter that person.

You listed 3 things that you don't care about.
Well, all these things may happen to you too, it's not that those gun owners were expecting it.

Yes, they very well may happen. But it's my decision to weigh that risk and take it vs. needing a gun for self defense purposes. Politicians who live in an upper class neighborhood with police patrols must not understand that people in the less nice neighborhoods where the police take multiple minutes (if not longer: My aunts b/f lives in the country. He came home one night and found his house broken into. He called the police, and it took an hour for them to get there. WTF was he going to do if he'd arrived when the burglars were still there????) to respond don't have the luxury of not being able to defend themselves.

I really don't know how we'd ever hit the point where the simple logic of legally being able to defend yourself, in your own home no less, is questioned. It's just surreal...

Chuck

 

[spidey07]

1. it doesn't happen so often that a guy comes into your house and kills you before stealing. Most thiefs either wait for people to get out or just point a knife at you.

You listed 3 things that you don't care about.
Well, all these things may happen to you too, it's not that those gun owners were expecting it.

Thanks to castle laws I don't have to worry what his intent is. He's in my house, he gets dead. He made the choice to live or die when his foot crossed the threshold of my house.

And newsflash for you, there are a very high percentage of criminals who like hurting people, just for fun.

 

[SphinxnihpS]

It's nice to see that the aldermen of Chicago have no idea how the Constitution and Bill of Rights works.

I would expect this law to also be challenged in court. It's still pretty strict. I didn't see it in this article, but I read that no gun stores will be allowed in Chicago and you cannot stand on your porch or in your garage with your handgun. It must be inside your house. So much for "the right of the people to keep and bear Arms."

Sure they do. They understand that the 2nd amendment is there to allow people to kill them if they make shitty laws.

 

[Moonbeam]

Exactly what effect do you believe handgun restrictions will have on the criminals who cause those citizens to "live in a constant state of fear"?

Please spell it out for us.

What effect does any law have. Why make any since as soon as you make a law and somebody breaks it you create a criminal. The point is that the people who live in areas of gun violence vote for folk who will restrict guns and along comes the NRA and religious gun wackos packing 5 out of 9 and take their democracy from them. Laws are made to define what kind of society we have and people being shot at want their society gun free. What can anybody do to eliminate guns. The law is the logical first step.

Because you absolutists demand total freedom to own guns you temp folk to revolution, that when any government becomes destructive of the right to pursue life liberty and happiness it is the right of the people to institute new government as to them shall seem most likely to affect their safety and happiness.

 

[nick1985]

What effect does any law have. Why make any since as soon as you make a law and somebody breaks it you create a criminal. The point is that the people who live in areas of gun violence vote for folk who will restrict guns and along comes the NRA and religious gun wackos packing 5 out of 9 and take their democracy from them. Laws are made to define what kind of society we have and people being shot at want their society gun free. What can anybody do to eliminate guns. The law is the logical first step.

1) Gun bans only increase crime. Prove me otherwise moonbeam, I dare you to even try. There are NO stats to show gun bans reduce violent crime. They only increase it.

2) Its funny how you seem to be all about the law, when gun bans are themselves unconstitutional. Thanks for the chuckle.

3) Demcoracy? We are not a democracy. Learn a little bit about our governing system.

 

[PeshakJang]

What effect does any law have. Why make any since as soon as you make a law and somebody breaks it you create a criminal. The point is that the people who live in areas of gun violence vote for folk who will restrict guns and along comes the NRA and religious gun wackos packing 5 out of 9 and take their democracy from them. Laws are made to define what kind of society we have and people being shot at want their society gun free. What can anybody do to eliminate guns. The law is the logical first step.

Because you absolutists demand total freedom to own guns you temp folk to revolution, that when any government becomes destructive of the right to pursue life liberty and happiness it is the right of the people to institute new government as to them shall seem most likely to affect their safety and happiness.

There, there, little child. Don't be afraid Moonbeam...

 

[DisgruntledVirus]

Here is a quick little article from About.com on Gun safety where they quote numbers from the CDC.






http://pediatrics.about.com/cs/safetyfirstaid/a/gun_safety.htm

When you go to the FBI and CDC and search the data, the numbers clearly show owning a gun more than likely be the cause of injury or death to a person in the home and not a criminal. Its just a fact. Its legal, but it it is far from being smart. A dog is significantly a better home defense than any gun made in the history of mankind. Noise is the number 1 deterrent against a home intruder. A mean dashund will chase off an intruder faster than any handgun, rifle, submachine gun, bow and arrow, or grenade launcher. Guns are a lousy home defense.

That is an issue of lack of gun education and/or properly storing the firearm. A gun should be kept in a gun safe for a reason. There will always be accidental shootings, but if people are educated about firearms and follow the rules regarding firearm safety then even those accidents will be minimal.

Also, dogs are horrible for home defense.

 

[nobodyknows]

What effect does any law have. Why make any since as soon as you make a law and somebody breaks it you create a criminal. The point is that the people who live in areas of gun violence vote for folk who will restrict guns and along comes the NRA and religious gun wackos packing 5 out of 9 and take their democracy from them. Laws are made to define what kind of society we have and people being shot at want their society gun free. What can anybody do to eliminate guns. The law is the logical first step.

Because you absolutists demand total freedom to own guns you temp folk to revolution, that when any government becomes destructive of the right to pursue life liberty and happiness it is the right of the people to institute new government as to them shall seem most likely to affect their safety and happiness.

God Damn America!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nH5ixmT83JE

 

[Moonbeam]

nick1985; Gun bans only increase crime. Prove me otherwise moonbeam, I dare you to even try. There are NO stats to show gun bans reduce violent crime. They only increase it.

M: Good grief. Gun bans don't commit crimes. It's criminals that commit crimes. I checked that one personally with the NRA and got their approval.

n: Its funny how you seem to be all about the law, when gun bans are themselves unconstitutional. Thanks for the chuckle.

M: I am only using the law as you do. English law said the Colonies couldn't revolt, but they broke the law and made new law to better serve their ideas of what law should be. There is nothing sacred about law that works against the fundament rights of people. The right to life comes about the right to bear arms.

n: Demcoracy? We are not a democracy. Learn a little bit about our governing system.

m: You might want to learn a little more about Ca. prop 8.

 

[nick1985]

nick1985; Gun bans only increase crime. Prove me otherwise moonbeam, I dare you to even try. There are NO stats to show gun bans reduce violent crime. They only increase it.

M: Good grief. Gun bans don't commit crimes. It's criminals that commit crimes. I checked that one personally with the NRA and got their approval.

n: Its funny how you seem to be all about the law, when gun bans are themselves unconstitutional. Thanks for the chuckle.

M: I am only using the law as you do. English law said the Colonies couldn't revolt, but they broke the law and made new law to better serve their ideas of what law should be. There is nothing sacred about law that works against the fundament rights of people. The right to life comes about the right to bear arms.

n: Demcoracy? We are not a democracy. Learn a little bit about our governing system.

m: You might want to learn a little more about Ca. prop 8.

Every single one of your replies was fucking stupid (and of course you provided no evidence to show gun bans reduce violent crime).

I remember years back when I used to think you were wise. What a fool I was.

 

[xj0hnx]

M: There is nothing sacred about law that works against the fundament rights of people.

Exactly, there's nothing right about a law that works against the people's fundamental right to keep and bear arms, and defend themselves with them

The right to life comes about the right to bear arms.

Right, the right to defend yourself against anyone that would take your life comes about from the right to bear arms.

n: Demcoracy? We are not a democracy. Learn a little bit about our governing system.

m: You might want to learn a little more about Ca. prop 8.

What does that have to do with us being a Constitutional Republic?

 

[JD50]

Wow, classy got owned by common sense.

 

[JD50]

Do I get a title or win a belt or something. Does this get me into the debate Hall fo Fame? I am beautiful, I am just to damn handsome, I float baby.

There's no prize for being too stupid to understand your own argument, sorry.

 

[SoCalAznGuy]

fact is making guns so easily available makes it so more criminals have guns. If we abbed guns and stoped their manufacturing, then fewer criminals would have guns. It is scary how many people here are in love with guns that they turn a blind eye to the violence and destruction caused by guns.

 

[spidey07]

fact is making guns so easily available makes it so more criminals have guns. If we abbed guns and stoped their manufacturing, then fewer criminals would have guns. It is scary how many people here are in love with guns that they turn a blind eye to the violence and destruction caused by guns.

I hope you know most firearms will last many lifetimes if taken care of. Why do you think people went out and bought so many firearms and 10s of thousands of rounds of ammunition after Obama got elected?

Because he thinks like you do, he's from Chicago.

 

[JD50]

fact is making guns so easily available makes it so more criminals have guns. If we abbed guns and stoped their manufacturing, then fewer criminals would have guns. It is scary how many people here are in love with guns that they turn a blind eye to the violence and destruction caused by guns.

 

[bfdd]

fact is making guns so easily available makes it so more criminals have guns. If we abbed guns and stoped their manufacturing, then fewer criminals would have guns. It is scary how many people here are in love with guns that they turn a blind eye to the violence and destruction caused by guns.

So what happens to all the guns in circulation already? What happens to having access to materials that could potentially be machined into parts of a gun? America is a gun culture, has been since it was founded. It would take some crazy ass shit in order to get guns out of the USA.

 

[werepossum]

I hope you know most firearms will last many lifetimes if taken care of. Why do you think people went out and bought so many firearms and 10s of thousands of rounds of ammunition after Obama got elected?

Because he thinks like you do, he's from Chicago.

Not to mention criminals don't necessarily even need guns, they just need to be stronger than their prey. Very few men and even fewer women are a match for several violent young men with clubs, even if they have their own clubs. Criminals face little danger with a disarmed public. With however an armed public, a gang of criminals faces a very real threat of being seriously injured or killed by an armed man or women even if they too have guns.

It's a moot point though, as the coyotes and cartels are running thousands of people and tons of drugs into the country each year and can easily supply guns too if there's a market. Criminals will never face a shortage of guns in this country. If nothing else they'll steal them from cops and security guards. The only question is whether or not law abiding people can also be armed. To a liberal the answer of course is no, as liberals consider people as groups and are solicitous of criminals (who are of course society's victims.) To a liberal, a homeowner shooting an invader is simply one of the privileged group shooting one of the underprivileged group, worse than the invader shooting the homeowner and not a danger to the group of law-abiding people as a whole. Only if things like freedom, private property rights, and the rights of individuals to be secure in their persons mean something to you does it make sense to have an armed populace.

 

[classy]

Wow, classy got owned by common sense.

You mean classy was attacked after the CDC and FBI reports caused the gun slinger meltdown .

 

[bfdd]

You mean classy was attacked after the CDC and FBI reports caused the gun slinger meltdown .

... it's how you use information. I guess you're against living too because did you know 100% of the people who live, die?

 

[JohnnyGage]

... it's how you use information. I guess you're against living too because did you know 100% of the people who live, die?

Good point. He should be against hospitals as well, since more people die in hospitals than anywhere else. I think there may be some numbers in the CDC about it.

 

[classy]

... it's how you use information. I guess you're against living too because did you know 100% of the people who live, die?

See this is what I mean, a complete meltdown. Now you're rambling some incoherent nonsense and you even get some dweeb to agree with you.