New Chicago Handgun Law was approved

[Zargon]

You mean classy was attacked after the CDC and FBI reports caused the gun slinger meltdown

See this is what I mean, a complete meltdown. Now you're rambling some incoherent nonsense and you even get some dweeb to agree with you.

dude, you have proven that you have no idea how statistics work. Let alone anything about applying what they tell you to real life.

We should also ban warm weather, as there is a direct corelation to air temperature and crime rates, as air temp rises, so do crime rates. That is a proven FACT.

However, its still to think that warm air causes crime. and you certainly can't ban it.

nor can you remove violence from a society, nor the tools to make violence.

taking away the only defense against violence doesnt fix the problem.

Gun laws since the 90's have been cosntantly loosened and violent crime has dropped.

The places in the US with the most violent crimes generally have the strictest gun laws.

chicago has had ~60 gang murders in the last 30 days. Gun laws dont stop criminals. DC another great example, no guns, yet was the murder capitol of the us for a few years.....and is always in the top 10 if not the top 5

 

[bfdd]

See this is what I mean, a complete meltdown. Now you're rambling some incoherent nonsense and you even get some dweeb to agree with you.

No I'm just pointing out your misuse of the data.

 

[SoCalAznGuy]

IMHO it is sick that so many of you would condemn countless children to lives of endless gun violrnce. You have condemned these children so you can get your rocks off shooting guns. You are sick in the head and are better off gone.

 

[bfdd]

IMHO it is sick that so many of you would condemn countless children to lives of endless gun violrnce. You have condemned these children so you can get your rocks off shooting guns. You are sick in the head and are better off gone.

Make sense please. Also, can you answer my question about how exactly we're supposed to remove guns from the USA and our culture? Lets say tomorrow you got to be dictator of the USA's gun laws, what would you do? Did you read my question previously? What about the materials you could use to make a gun, would those be banned from civilians also?

 

[spidey07]

IMHO it is sick that so many of you would condemn countless children to lives of endless gun violrnce. You have condemned these children so you can get your rocks off shooting guns. You are sick in the head and are better off gone.

If that 15 year old criminal child is breaking into my home, they will be shot dead. They made that choice to live or die when they enter my home. Same as outside the home - if they threaten serious injury or death then they get shot dead.

No, it is the criminal and their criminal actions that threaten my life, liberty and property that are better off gone.

And even if you completely banned them my buddy could probably make one (has the machining tools to do so), they really aren't that complicated and I would then own one illegally. Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.

 

[nick1985]

IMHO it is sick that so many of you would condemn countless children to lives of endless gun violrnce. You have condemned these children so you can get your rocks off shooting guns. You are sick in the head and are better off gone.

Did you know that every single time gun bans have been implemented, violent crime rises?

Please address this fact

 

[bfdd]

Did you know that every single time gun bans have been implemented, violent crime rises?

Please address this fact

People ignore the fact the USA is a gun country with a gun culture. It always has been. Guns are ingrained into our society and it would be impossible to completely remove them from our society. Countries that have insanely strict gun laws will still have criminals and criminal organizations that are armed. Look at Japan. The worst possible thing we could do as a nation would be to strip guns out of every law abiding citizens hands.

 

[bfdd]

Did you know that every single time gun bans have been implemented, violent crime rises?

Please address this fact

Here's some reading on this.

http://gunowners.org/op0746.htm

These studies compared data from a large number of nations around the world. There were no instances of nations with high gun ownership having higher murder rates than nations with low gun ownership. If anything it was the reverse, for reasons discussed below.

For example, though Norway has far and away the highest firearm ownership per capita in Western Europe, it nevertheless has the lowest murder rate. Other nations with high firearms ownership and comparably low murder rates include Denmark, Greece, Switzerland, Germany and Austria. Holland has a 50 percent higher murder rate despite having the lowest rate of firearm ownership in Europe. And Luxembourg, despite its total handgun ban, has a murder rate that is nine times higher than countries such as Norway and Austria.

 

[classy]

dude, you have proven that you have no idea how statistics work. Let alone anything about applying what they tell you to real life.

We should also ban warm weather, as there is a direct corelation to air temperature and crime rates, as air temp rises, so do crime rates. That is a proven FACT.

However, its still to think that warm air causes crime. and you certainly can't ban it.

nor can you remove violence from a society, nor the tools to make violence.

taking away the only defense against violence doesnt fix the problem.

Gun laws since the 90's have been cosntantly loosened and violent crime has dropped.

The places in the US with the most violent crimes generally have the strictest gun laws.

chicago has had ~60 gang murders in the last 30 days. Gun laws dont stop criminals. DC another great example, no guns, yet was the murder capitol of the us for a few years.....and is always in the top 10 if not the top 5

No I'm just pointing out your misuse of the data.

Actually I did not misuse or take out of context any of the data. You just cry and whine because the data disapproves the dumb notion that more guns somehow is going to save everyone. If you don't like the FBI data which is very detailed and complete, call them. Now when they laugh and hang up, don't come in here and post like a dummy how they don't respect your freedom.

 

[JD50]

You mean classy was attacked after the CDC and FBI reports caused the gun slinger meltdown .

You can't be this stupid. Your original argument was about non-criminals, every "stat" that you have produced has been about criminals.

 

[classy]

Here's some reading on this.

http://gunowners.org/op0746.htm

I just laugh at the utter BS slung here. Do you know in most of those places the laws to own a gun are strict, the ass clowns here in the US would never ever agree to. Take spidey who has openly said he goes to gun shows so he can get around the red tape. Most of the countries don't allow assault weapons either. Most of those countries you have to document a specific use and it may be rejected. You guys are so full of shit. You boldly quoted Norway

Here is Norway rules off wiki for example

Norway has a large population of hunters.[3] Semi-automatic and bolt action rifles, as well as shotguns, make up the better part of the guns in civilian homes.

There is a total ban on automatic weapons for civilians, unless they fall into the collector category. Modification of semi-automatic guns into fully automatic without the consent of the police is a felony crime.

Handguns have some caliber restrictions. A Smith & Wesson 500, for example, is illegal due to its high power, but other, less powerful, guns are legal as they are used in sports shooting. Norway has a long tradition of high-end sports shooting competitions, especially rifle shooting. Each caliber must be used in some type of competition to be allowed. Also, there is a restriction on the number of weapons an owner can have for each caliber. For recreational shooters, only one gun is allowed in each caliber. For professional and semi-professional shooters, a spare gun is allowed. A recreational shooter is only allowed to own four different handguns. To obtain more, documentation on extensive involvement in sport shooting is needed.


To own a gun in Norway, one must document a use for the gun. By far, the most common grounds for civilian ownership are hunting and sports shooting, in that order. Other needs can include special guard duties or self defense, but the first is rare and the second is practically never accepted as a reason for gun ownership.

There are special rules for collectors of guns. They are exempt from many parts of the regulation, but, in turn, they must meet even more narrow qualifications. Collectors may purchase, but not fire without permission, all kinds of guns in their respective areas of interest, which they have defined in advance.

Ownership is regulated in paragraph 7,[1] and responsibility for issuing a gun ownership license is given to the police authority in the applicant's district.

Rifle and shotgun ownership permission can be given to "sober and responsible" persons 18 years or older. The applicant for the permission must document a need for the weapon. Two exceptions exist to this age qualification. Persons under the age of 18, but over 16 may apply for rifle or shotgun ownership license with the consent of parents or guardian. For handguns, the lowest ownership age is 21 with no exceptions allowed. For inherited weapons, it is up to the local police chief to make a decision based on the individual facts of the case.

An applicant must have a clean police record in order to obtain an ownership license.


Now wiki may not be totally accurate, but I doubt its far off. Now I am in your damn kitchen. Look at some of those rules and according to the info they can't own a gun for SELF DEFENSE. Show me one NRA swinging dick who would back the same kind of laws here in the US and I fly anywhere in the US and rally with the motherfracker. Such a damn joke.

As usual link provided
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Norway

 

[JD50]

I just laugh at the utter BS slung here. Do you know in most of those places the laws to own a gun are strict, the ass clowns here in the US would never ever agree to. Take spidey who has openly said he goes to gun shows so he can get around the red tape. Most of the countries don't allow assault weapons either. Most of those countries you have to document a specific use and it may be rejected. You guys are so full of shit. You boldly quoted Norway

Here is Norway rules off wiki for example

Norway has a large population of hunters.[3] Semi-automatic and bolt action rifles, as well as shotguns, make up the better part of the guns in civilian homes.

There is a total ban on automatic weapons for civilians, unless they fall into the collector category. Modification of semi-automatic guns into fully automatic without the consent of the police is a felony crime.

Handguns have some caliber restrictions. A Smith & Wesson 500, for example, is illegal due to its high power, but other, less powerful, guns are legal as they are used in sports shooting. Norway has a long tradition of high-end sports shooting competitions, especially rifle shooting. Each caliber must be used in some type of competition to be allowed. Also, there is a restriction on the number of weapons an owner can have for each caliber. For recreational shooters, only one gun is allowed in each caliber. For professional and semi-professional shooters, a spare gun is allowed. A recreational shooter is only allowed to own four different handguns. To obtain more, documentation on extensive involvement in sport shooting is needed.


To own a gun in Norway, one must document a use for the gun. By far, the most common grounds for civilian ownership are hunting and sports shooting, in that order. Other needs can include special guard duties or self defense, but the first is rare and the second is practically never accepted as a reason for gun ownership.

There are special rules for collectors of guns. They are exempt from many parts of the regulation, but, in turn, they must meet even more narrow qualifications. Collectors may purchase, but not fire without permission, all kinds of guns in their respective areas of interest, which they have defined in advance.

Ownership is regulated in paragraph 7,[1] and responsibility for issuing a gun ownership license is given to the police authority in the applicant's district.

Rifle and shotgun ownership permission can be given to "sober and responsible" persons 18 years or older. The applicant for the permission must document a need for the weapon. Two exceptions exist to this age qualification. Persons under the age of 18, but over 16 may apply for rifle or shotgun ownership license with the consent of parents or guardian. For handguns, the lowest ownership age is 21 with no exceptions allowed. For inherited weapons, it is up to the local police chief to make a decision based on the individual facts of the case.

An applicant must have a clean police record in order to obtain an ownership license.


Now wiki may not be totally accurate, but I doubt its far off. Now I am in your damn kitchen. Look at some of those rules and according to the info they can't own a gun for SELF DEFENSE. Show me one NRA swinging dick who would back the same kind of laws here in the US and I fly anywhere in the US and rally with the motherfracker. Such a damn joke.

As usual link provided
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Norway

How is any of that relevant?

 

[nick1985]

How is any of that relevant?

He is proving that gun bans reduce violent crime.


Oh wait, he isnt. I dont know what the fuck he is blabbering about now.

 

[classy]

Where's Amused, he was the one who stated gun ownership has nothing to do with suicides. And someone just propped up Austria another country with some strict ass rules. Here is a report on Austria stricter gun rules that lowered suicide




European countries should tighten their gun laws as a measure to prevent suicides, according to a new study from Austria. The study published in the British Journal of Psychiatry (September 2007) found that firearm suicides in Austria decreased by 4.7% each year following the introduction of stricter gun controls in 1997.


The gun suicide rate from 1985 to 1997 was an average 3.96 per 100,000 population. By 2005 it had dropped to 2.67 per 100,000.


The 1997 legislation required psychological tests and tougher background checks for handgun ownership, and raised the minimum age to 21. A reason must now be provided before obtaining any firearm. Safe storage requirements and a 3 day ‘cooling off’ waiting period also apply.

This is not the first study to show that stricter gun controls prevent suicides. In the USA, requiring background checks and waiting periods reduced the gun suicide rate among people aged over 55. In Australia, the decline in gun suicides accelerated following comprehensive gun law reform in 1996.


You think the NRA would support those rules from Austria? Yeah right........

http://www.iansa.org/regions/europe/austria_suicides2007.htm

 

[bfdd]

classy this is what I mean by misusing the data. The article isn't saying Norway has no gun control laws and that's why it has a lower murder rate, it's saying it has some of the most LAX gun control laws in all of Europe and has a lower murder rate than places that have straight out banned guns. See how much different it looks when you read it the way it's supposed to be read.

 

[JD50]

He is proving that gun bans reduce violent crime.


Oh wait, he isnt. I dont know what the fuck he is blabbering about now.

Heh, it's kind of confusing. He keeps bringing up statistics and data that have nothing to do with whatever point he's trying to make, and then he proclaims himself winner and wants some kind of award. What a weird dude, reminds me why I don't come to P&N very often any more.

 

[classy]

Plain and simple you want gun ownership with no rules. Thats all these folks in Chicago are trying to prevent. If you want to use these other countries success for gun ownership then you should be willing to live by the same rules as well. Thats why giving guns to dummies is dangerous. Hell if the two bit gun chumps supported those kind of rules I guess we would have lower gun violence as well. I would love to see some of you who have a brain about the size of a strand of thread pass a pysch test. Yeah right, hell just the age limit of Austria alone would make us safer.

 

[spidey07]

Classy - honest question.

Have ever handled, fired, or owned a firearm? Have you ever been in a situation where you wished you had one?

Because the day after I had a bunch of people, probably 2-3. In my house. At 3 am. Was the day I armed my self. And I grew up around them. I have a wife to protect now. Better have it and not need it than need it and not have it.

That night changed my views on gun ownership and laws immediately. My guns are the great equalizer. 2-3 guys want to barge in and do whatever they want with me and my family they could before. Sorry, a few guys can and will overpower you without a firearm.

Not now they can't. There are firearms strategically placed on each floor that only I and my wife know where they are. I really hope I never need them for defense, but we're glad they are there. Oh, and if freaks you out even more they are loaded, stage 3 ready. The one in the bedroom is stage 1, ready to fire.

 

[classy]

classy this is what I mean by misusing the data. The article isn't saying Norway has no gun control laws and that's why it has a lower murder rate, it's saying it has some of the most LAX gun control laws in all of Europe and has a lower murder rate than places that have straight out banned guns. See how much different it looks when you read it the way it's supposed to be read.

What the frack are you talking about? I posted what the gun laws are in the countries that you used an example to bolster your argument for gun ownership. If we had those gun laws, very few people would try to block ownership. But we don't have those laws, now do we? Instead of trying to explain away the info, try actually reading it to learn something.

 

[bfdd]

Plain and simple you want gun ownership with no rules. Thats all these folks in Chicago are trying to prevent. If you want to use these other countries success for gun ownership then you should be willing to live by the same rules as well. Thats why giving guns to dummies is dangerous. Hell if the two bit gun chumps supported those kind of rules I guess we would have lower gun violence as well. I would love to see some of you who have a brain about the size of a strand of thread pass a pysch test. Yeah right, hell just the age limit of Austria alone would make us safer.

huh? I want rules. I like the rule of no convicted felon being able to own a gun. I believe that's a good rule. I believe crimes committed with guns should carry a much harsher sentence than similar crimes committed without a gun. I'm not for stupid rules like no pistol grips or even straight out banning guns from LAW ABIDING CITIZENS. I don't understand this fucking argument for wanting to take guns out of peoples hands who have committed no serious offense with or without a gun. If we're to take the NRA on their numbers 1% or less of gun crimes are committed by legal gun owners. I've read other figures that put it as high as 5%. Now explain to me why we would punish the majority of Americans for their legally protected right to own a gun, when it's a small minority of CRIMINAL Americans causing the problem.

 

[JD50]

Where's Amused, he was the one who stated gun ownership has nothing to do with suicides. And someone just propped up Austria another country with some strict ass rules. Here is a report on Austria stricter gun rules that lowered suicide




European countries should tighten their gun laws as a measure to prevent suicides, according to a new study from Austria. The study published in the British Journal of Psychiatry (September 2007) found that firearm suicides in Austria decreased by 4.7% each year following the introduction of stricter gun controls in 1997.


The gun suicide rate from 1985 to 1997 was an average 3.96 per 100,000 population. By 2005 it had dropped to 2.67 per 100,000.


The 1997 legislation required psychological tests and tougher background checks for handgun ownership, and raised the minimum age to 21. A reason must now be provided before obtaining any firearm. Safe storage requirements and a 3 day ‘cooling off’ waiting period also apply.

This is not the first study to show that stricter gun controls prevent suicides. In the USA, requiring background checks and waiting periods reduced the gun suicide rate among people aged over 55. In Australia, the decline in gun suicides accelerated following comprehensive gun law reform in 1996.


You think the NRA would support those rules from Austria? Yeah right........

http://www.iansa.org/regions/europe/austria_suicides2007.htm

How can someone possibly be so clueless? Amused said that gun ownership has nothing to do with suicide rates, he did NOT say that gun ownership has nothing to do with GUN suicide rates.

 

[bfdd]

What the frack are you talking about? I posted what the gun laws are in the countries that you used an example to bolster your argument for gun ownership. If we had those gun laws, very few people would try to block ownership. But we don't have those laws, now do we? Instead of trying to explain away the info, try actually reading it to learn something.

The article isn't about WHAT gun control laws are in place it's about how STRICT gun control laws are. Norway, who has lax gun control laws compared to their neighbors, has a lower murder rate than Luxemburg, which bans ALL guns.

Do you see what it is saying now?

 

[JD50]

Plain and simple you want gun ownership with no rules. Thats all these folks in Chicago are trying to prevent. If you want to use these other countries success for gun ownership then you should be willing to live by the same rules as well. Thats why giving guns to dummies is dangerous. Hell if the two bit gun chumps supported those kind of rules I guess we would have lower gun violence as well. I would love to see some of you who have a brain about the size of a strand of thread pass a pysch test. Yeah right, hell just the age limit of Austria alone would make us safer.

How many people under the age of 21 commit gun crimes with a legal handgun in this country? How many people under the age of 18 commit gun crimes with a legal rifle or shotgun?

 

[Moonbeam]

Every single one of your replies was fucking stupid (and of course you provided no evidence to show gun bans reduce violent crime).

I remember years back when I used to think you were wise. What a fool I was.

How many fucking times do I have to explain to the stupid that when they call me stupid but provide no argument or evidence to back it up, it is they that are stupid.

My first point was intended to be stupid or as stupid as the argument you and the gun happy folk always advance that it's not guns that commit crimes but people. Here I therefore informed you that it's not gun bans that commit crimes so any evidence that links gun bans with increased crimes is obviously, by the way YOU, not me, reason, it isn't the gun ban committing those crimes, but people.

If you could read with calmness and fidelity, you will see that nowhere do I say anything about gun bans reducing crime. I have argued exclusively that folk who want gun bans in their community are being denied the right to govern themselves according to their own lights, not yours or mine and if they want to ban guns they should have that right. This country is founded on the notion that folk should create the government as to them shall seem most likely to provide their safety and harmony and all that fine founding fathers stuff. Because if they are denied the right to self govern they may just tear things down and start over.

So yes, I am wise beyond your dreaming, but only when I seem to say what you already think you know and therefore believe. Get me started on something you can't yet imagine but might tread on one of your sacred cows, and I suddenly become the world's biggest fool. I long ago saw the what people think or say about me can have nothing at all to do with the truth.

I, for example, have more guns that I can number, and haven't looked at one of them in years. As an individual, I am totally uninterested in what happens with gun legislation. Whether I can or can't have guns is totally irrelevant to me. But then I know from introspection and feeling what I feel, that the only enemy out to get me is me. I'm never any more plagued by anxiety and the fear of the dark.

I was told to love my enemies and you can imagine how easy that was when I discovered my enemy was me. I was thus able to defeat a great and powerful enemy because he was also just so damn cool.

 

[JD50]

BTW, suicide rates in Austria declined by a GREATER percentage during that same time period. This puts the gun suicide rates right along with the overall suicide rate of that country, making the gun control laws totally irrelevant.

Edit - could be a greater percentage, could be about the same, can't really tell from the graph that I found, there's not enough detail. Either way, suicides were declining, it wasn't because of gun control laws.