new car rant

[mattpegher]

I have been looking to replace my old truck for a new one. Have looked at toyota, audi, GMC, honda and acura. The deals suck. After really haggling with each I can get no better deals than the ones I could get 5 years ago. And the vehicles are now 10 grand more than they were 5 years back. The cost of vehicles as far out paced inflation and you cant tell me that in 5 years technology has become that much better.

I don't blame the dealers or salemen, I blame the manufactures. I even had a friend who is a salesman for GM try. He got me the best deal he could, making no money himself and only a little for the dealership, but still the manufacturers incentives were no better than 5 years ago.

I say fire everyone at the big three making more than 200k and promote the rest with more reasonable salaries.

 

[evident]

we just started looking for a new or used car for my GF. she wants to go from her 98 CRV to a lexus RX350. i think a new one fully loaded might be stretching it so thinking about certified preowned at the lexus dealer. thing is that they dont budge with prices on their CPO's at all, i guess because they warranty the thing for 7/years 100k miles and have all maintenance included up until then. if we could get a new rx350 at invoice price or less though, it could def. be considered. we havent talked prices with any dealers yet, but i have a feeling that dealers are still gonna try and screw us

and yes- gm and chrysler execs need to go jump off a cliff. the people working under them don't deserve the fallout that the execs caused for them

 

[LTC8K6]

The negotiations for my 08 Jeep GC started at 10K off the sticker...and that was in October.

 

[boomerang]

Originally posted by: mattpegher
<snip>

I say fire everyone at the big three making more than 200k and promote the rest with more reasonable salaries.

What's your plan for reducing material costs? Utility costs? Transportation costs?

If you think cars are expensive now, just wait until cars.gov start hitting the pipeline. You'll long for the good old days (today).

 

[mattpegher]

Originally posted by: boomerang

Originally posted by: mattpegher
<snip>

I say fire everyone at the big three making more than 200k and promote the rest with more reasonable salaries.

What's your plan for reducing material costs? Utility costs? Transportation costs?

If you think cars are expensive now, just wait until cars.gov start hitting the pipeline. You'll long for the good old days (today).

I don't disagree that the cost of making and distributing cars needs to be addressed but I just seems odd that the same car with same specs 5 years ago is now 10k more.

My statement is that these fat cats have failed to make their companies profitable partly by their own greed and partly by laziness. The UAW needs to be held partly responsible as well.

 

[iamwiz82]

The problem is that all of the safety requirements by the FMVSS are raising weight and costs. TPMS, stability control, side impact airbags, it does on and on.

Take a look at the EU's pedestrian hood rules and the requirements. Jaguar's solution was to have a hood that pops up when a pedestrian gets hit. $$$

 

[boomerang]

Originally posted by: mattpegher

Originally posted by: boomerang

Originally posted by: mattpegher
<snip>

I say fire everyone at the big three making more than 200k and promote the rest with more reasonable salaries.

What's your plan for reducing material costs? Utility costs? Transportation costs?

If you think cars are expensive now, just wait until cars.gov start hitting the pipeline. You'll long for the good old days (today).

I don't disagree that the cost of making and distributing cars needs to be addressed but I just seems odd that the same car with same specs 5 years ago is now 10k more.

My statement is that these fat cats have failed to make their companies profitable partly by their own greed and partly by laziness. The UAW needs to be held partly responsible as well.

I understand what you're saying. The point I'm making is that car prices are not headed down, only up. Way up, IMO. Bankruptcy, concessions, dealer closings etc., are not going to reduce the price of cars. There's no rainbow on the horizon. The cost of living in the U.S. of A. is headed higher and higher.

 

[mattpegher]

Originally posted by: boomerang

Originally posted by: mattpegher

Originally posted by: boomerang

Originally posted by: mattpegher
<snip>

I say fire everyone at the big three making more than 200k and promote the rest with more reasonable salaries.

What's your plan for reducing material costs? Utility costs? Transportation costs?

If you think cars are expensive now, just wait until cars.gov start hitting the pipeline. You'll long for the good old days (today).

I don't disagree that the cost of making and distributing cars needs to be addressed but I just seems odd that the same car with same specs 5 years ago is now 10k more.

My statement is that these fat cats have failed to make their companies profitable partly by their own greed and partly by laziness. The UAW needs to be held partly responsible as well.

I understand what you're saying. The point I'm making is that car prices are not headed down, only up. Way up, IMO. Bankruptcy, concessions, dealer closings etc., are not going to reduce the price of cars. There's no rainbow on the horizon. The cost of living in the U.S. of A. is headed higher and higher.

Of course car prices will rise on average as better safety and technology are implimented, however it has far outpaced the economy. At this rate a basic car will cost the average american a years salary in the next 5 years. My first car was a 1976 chevy malibu, which I bought used in 1986 for $1000. New the vehicle was considered slightly luxurious and sold for about $3000, less than 1/4 of the average salary at the time.

 

[c3p0]

Have looked at toyota, audi, GMC, honda and acura. The deals suck.

I say fire everyone at the big three making more than 200k and promote the rest with more reasonable salaries.

Why just the "big three"? If the deals sucked at toyota, audi, honda and acura, why not fire everyone that makes more than 200k in those companies as well?

c3p0
:beer:

 

[mattpegher]

Originally posted by: c3p0

Have looked at toyota, audi, GMC, honda and acura. The deals suck.

I say fire everyone at the big three making more than 200k and promote the rest with more reasonable salaries.

Why just the "big three"? If the deals sucked at toyota, audi, honda and acura, why not fire everyone that makes more than 200k in those companies as well?

c3p0
:beer:

Agreed, but since these are imports the ability to control them is stronger through tariffs. And they aren't asking for our tax dollars.

 

[StageLeft]

Some deals are good, but clearly not fantastic. There are few areas in the economy in which revenues are down as hugely as auto. People are scared, yes, but they will buy if prices are low enough. That may mean losing money on each car, but hey they're losing money hand over fist anyway. Cars are cheaper now, but it seems for the most part dealerships are looking to keep profit per car within the same ballpark as before, but simply sell less of them, instead of a slim profit and making up on volume. I haven't been overly impressed. My local mazda dealership is giving away some first year CX7s but otherwise nothing great, like $1500 off or 2.9% financing, really that's the best you can do? Bullsh*t, nobody is in your salesroom. I have to wonder who the hell is, for example, buying a miata with some paltry amount of its $25,500 MSRP.

The cost of living in the U.S. of A. is headed higher and higher.

I believe so, too. The average person who was stretched before, have them stretched five years from now and they'll have less material goods. The only people who will maintain quality of life at par with the past are those who were living below their means or who meaningfully increase their vocation and income.

 

[Greenman]

Originally posted by: boomerang

Originally posted by: mattpegher
<snip>

I say fire everyone at the big three making more than 200k and promote the rest with more reasonable salaries.

What's your plan for reducing material costs? Utility costs? Transportation costs?

If you think cars are expensive now, just wait until cars.gov start hitting the pipeline. You'll long for the good old days (today).

I fully expect government intervention to double the price of a new car.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: mattpegher
I don't disagree that the cost of making and distributing cars needs to be addressed but I just seems odd that the same car with same specs 5 years ago is now 10k more.

Except that they aren't the same specs. There are side airbags standard on many cars now, and tire pressure monitoring systems that have been mandated by the government, and black-box data recorders, and more stringent emissions and crash regulations...

There are numerous expensive add-ons that are largely invisible to the consumer but which drive up costs.

ZV

 

[Mursilis]

Originally posted by: Skoorb
My local mazda dealership is giving away some first year CX7s but otherwise nothing great, like $1500 off or 2.9% financing, really that's the best you can do? Bullsh*t, nobody is in your salesroom. I have to wonder who the hell is, for example, buying a miata with some paltry amount of its $25,500 MSRP.

I've been following Miatas (and the forums over at miata.net) for the past 10 months or so while I've been looking for one, and Mazda's DEFINITELY thrown some serious money at those cars. Rebates are up to $5K on leftover '08s (still some in plenty of areas), and people are reporting getting up to $7-9K off sticker just so dealers can clear inventory. I was sorely tempted, but I ultimately went used on mine - an '04 Mazdaspeed edition.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: iamwiz82
The problem is that all of the safety requirements by the FMVSS are raising weight and costs. TPMS, stability control, side impact airbags, it does on and on.

Take a look at the EU's pedestrian hood rules and the requirements. Jaguar's solution was to have a hood that pops up when a pedestrian gets hit. $$$

FMVSS???

TPMS - Terminal Pre-Menstrual Syndrome?

I hate all these fucking acronyms. Whenever someone starts spouting off acronyms I just want to punch them in the face.

 

[Fenixgoon]

car prices have risen largely because of improved materials and technology. do you think that high strength steels, more complex sheet forming processes, MR suspensions, and more electronics all come for free?

try crashing a 2006 car against its own 1986 model (a la fifth gear). due to improved structures, additional impact absorbing zones (all of which add weight, mind you), the 1986 model will crumple into a tiny metal box, while your 2006 car will stay relatively in tact.

 

[mattpegher]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: mattpegher
I don't disagree that the cost of making and distributing cars needs to be addressed but I just seems odd that the same car with same specs 5 years ago is now 10k more.

Except that they aren't the same specs. There are side airbags standard on many cars now, and tire pressure monitoring systems that have been mandated by the government, and black-box data recorders, and more stringent emissions and crash regulations...

There are numerous expensive add-ons that are largely invisible to the consumer but which drive up costs.

ZV

But 10K? My 2004 GMC Yukon XL was 40k it is now 50k, 60 if you want Hybrid.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: mattpegher
I have been looking to replace my old truck for a new one. Have looked at toyota, audi, GMC, honda and acura. The deals suck. After really haggling with each I can get no better deals than the ones I could get 5 years ago. And the vehicles are now 10 grand more than they were 5 years back. The cost of vehicles as far out paced inflation and you cant tell me that in 5 years technology has become that much better.

I don't blame the dealers or salemen, I blame the manufactures. I even had a friend who is a salesman for GM try. He got me the best deal he could, making no money himself and only a little for the dealership, but still the manufacturers incentives were no better than 5 years ago.

I say fire everyone at the big three making more than 200k and promote the rest with more reasonable salaries.

So buy a low mileage new-to-you car and save big. New-to-you cars take a heavy hit in depreciation so you can easily save anywhere from a few thousand to tens of thousands of dollars on new-to-you cars.

 

[SSSnail]

The problem is not with the car companies either as they have to many money to sustain, the problem sometimes lie within the people. People tend to think because of the bad economy, they can get stuffs for free. What do you think is holding up the economy? Hot air?

 

[ViviTheMage]

You will not get a deal at Audi, trust me .

 

[exar333]

I had the completely opposite experience. While looking for my new Nissan, the car was only a few thousand than it was 5 years ago. The car has improved a lot since then, better engine, better interior, safer, more aluminum, etc. The dealership was desperate to sell, and they gave an amazing deal that really did'nt make them any money. I couldn't imagine a better time to get a new vehicle with the prices and incentives the way they are.

 

[LTC8K6]

But 10K? My 2004 GMC Yukon XL was 40k it is now 50k, 60 if you want Hybrid.

The value of the dollar has sunk, too. That and increased materials costs, plus increased features costs can easily amount to 10K.

However, you should be able to get a great deal on a Yukon right now.

Also, MSRP on a 2WD Yukon XL is only about 42K , not 50K.

http://www.gmc.com/yukon/index.jsp

 

[mattpegher]

Originally posted by: LTC8K6

But 10K? My 2004 GMC Yukon XL was 40k it is now 50k, 60 if you want Hybrid.

The value of the dollar has sunk, too. That and increased materials costs, plus increased features costs can easily amount to 10K.

However, you should be able to get a great deal on a Yukon right now.

Also, MSRP on a 2WD Yukon XL is only about 42K , not 50K.

http://www.gmc.com/yukon/index.jsp

My Yukon XL 4wd SLT 1.5 ton now msrp 48150 http://autos.yahoo.com/2009_gmc_yukon_xl_4wd/

I purchase new in 2004, its MSRP was 40k and the dealer incentive was 5k off.

 

[iamwiz82]

Originally posted by: mattpegher

Originally posted by: LTC8K6

But 10K? My 2004 GMC Yukon XL was 40k it is now 50k, 60 if you want Hybrid.

The value of the dollar has sunk, too. That and increased materials costs, plus increased features costs can easily amount to 10K.

However, you should be able to get a great deal on a Yukon right now.

Also, MSRP on a 2WD Yukon XL is only about 42K , not 50K.

http://www.gmc.com/yukon/index.jsp

My Yukon XL 4wd SLT 1.5 ton now msrp 48150 http://autos.yahoo.com/2009_gmc_yukon_xl_4wd/

I purchase new in 2004, its MSRP was 40k and the dealer incentive was 5k off.

Let me introduce inflation to you

http://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl

What was $35,000 in 1999 is $44,798 now. So prices jumped up just a little above inflation. The cost difference is easily explained by technology and standard features.

 

[LTC8K6]

I already mentioned inflation, no need for the introduction.

And no one mentioned that it was an SLT.

Also, people dont' like to talk abou the dirty little secret that we like SUV's and so the discounts aren't necessarily going to be there.

Still though, I'd think a dealer should be making you some sweet offers and I don't know why they wouldn't.