New Build, Going from a Pentium 2!! Yes it's true!

[Maculosa]

Hi,

First thing is that i'm sorry for my bad english!

I think it's time for a new build, my Pentium 2 450 with 256mb pc100 start to be outdated! (and this is not a joke!!)
I'm canadian so i buy all my part from Canadian retailer. (Ncix, DirectCanada, Newegg.ca etc... which everything is more expensive than in US.)

I have a budget of around 1000 - 1200$ and i will use the new rig for games, graphics and 3d.
I plan to get buy everything for christmas.

Since my knowlegde in computer hardware is also outdated, i'm reading on hardware forum to try to find what's today best bang for the buck hardware.
Here is where i'm with my build :

CASE:
Antec 300

CPU:
Intel core 2 duo E8400

MOTHERBOARD:
Gigabyte GA-EP45-UD3P or Asus P5Q-E (for the moment my choice is the Gigabyte one but it's not my final decision)

PSU:
Corsair 750TX (Already have it)

RAM:
Mushkin XP2-8000 Redline (8 GB) (They are Bought but not received yet)

VIDEO:
Evga GTX 260 Core 216 SC

HARDDRIVES :
Samsung Spinpoint F1 or Western Digital Caviar.
But for HD i'm not sure what's the best setup, a Single BIG HD (1TB) or 2 smaller (500GB) or a Small Fast one + a bigger one for storage etc...

MONITOR:
No idea yet, But i would like a good monitor for games and graphics. I would like something in 20''.

Thanks for any suggestions!

 

[disports]

Either ram should be fine. Why not get PC2-6400? As low as like $49.99 or even less after rebate. Either hard drive is fine. You can partition them if needed. You might as well look at something in the 22" range for monitors as there's a great price for its size. Take a look at the LCD sticky in the video cards and graphics forum to get an idea on some monitors.

 

[Maculosa]

Why not PC2-6400 ? just for better performance.
Maybe if i go with PC2-6400, it will be G.SKILL PI Black 4GB DDR2 800 which run timing 4-4-4-12 at 1.9v. and it's true it's a lot cheaper than PC2-8500.
Maybe i should consider getting 8 gig if this 800 mhz ram instead of 4 gig of 1066 mhz.

 

[DWk]

How much is that in USD?

I'd go for a Quad core if possible

 

[Maculosa]

ATM the G.SKILL PI Black 4GB DDR2 800 on Newegg.ca is at 77.09 (64.85 USD) but unfortunatly shipping is expensive on newegg.ca (17$ to ship)

and i just seen another deal, there is the Mushkin XP2 8000 Redline (2x2 GB) going for 79.55 (66.92 USD) with 0.99$ Shipping! those are tempting.

 

[ther00kie16]

What programs are you using? For graphics and 3D, consider a quad (q9400 or q9550) and a good heatsink if you plan on overclocking.

 

[DSF]

Originally posted by: Maculosa
Why not PC2-6400 ? just for better performance.
Maybe if i go with PC2-6400, it will be G.SKILL PI Black 4GB DDR2 800 which run timing 4-4-4-12 at 1.9v. and it's true it's a lot cheaper than PC2-8500.
Maybe i should consider getting 8 gig if this 800 mhz ram instead of 4 gig of 1066 mhz.

You're fooling yourself if you think RAM speed will have any noticeable affect on gaming performance. Same goes for timings.

 

[betasub]

Originally posted by: DSF
You're fooling yourself if you think RAM speed will have any noticeable affect on gaming performance. Same goes for timings.

QFT.

OP should only be going for the more expensive PC2-8500 if he really needs the headroom for overclocking the E8400 beyond the standard bestbuy PC2-6400.

 

[Maculosa]

Yes i would like a quadcore but now it's still expensive, i think i'm better to stay with a dual core for now and upgrade to a quad when price will come down else i will not be able to fit in my budget since i must also buy a monitor, optical, mouse, keyboard etc...

For graphics i will be using mostly XSI and Photoshop.

For ram, I do not plan to overclock at first (never OC) but it might be something i could do later...
So what should i do ? buying the cheaper ram as possible ? whatever the model and brand ?
Else what do you think of the price of the Mushkin PC2-8000 Redline ? worth it ?

 

[DarkRogue]

Can't go wrong with Corsair's XMS2 2x2GB PC2-6400 kit. Don't get the dominators as I really don't see the point of that ridiculous cooling, and it inflates the price anyway. You want to trim down the cost, so get good, well priced parts - not the overpriced stuff. You can also try to find some G.Skill ram, as I've heard good things about them recently, but as DSF has said, there is virtually no difference between CAS 4 and 5 outside of benchmark numbers. Just get a 4GB set that can run with low voltages (1.8-1.9v.)

As far as speeds past 800MHz, there's really no gain until you hit DDR3 speeds IIRC, so don't bother. Just get something that will support your CPU's projected FSB speed. DDR2-667 is the minimum for running 1:1 with the E8400, DDR2-800 if you're going to overclock that CPU to 3.6GHz. Only if you plan on seriously going higher than that should you consider maybe DDR2-1000/1066. Anything above that would not get you much of any gains IMO.

 

[Maculosa]

Corsair's XMS2 2x2GB PC2-6400 kit actually cost the same thing as the Mushkin PC2-8000 Redline which is in rebate.

I want to know if the Mushkin PC2-8000 Redline actually are good module ? worth it since i can get it at the same price of others 6400 modules.

 

[Denithor]

If you use Photoshop a lot go for 8GB DDR2 and make sure you get Vista Home Premium 64-bit.

Caviar Black 1TB drives are great.

 

[DarkRogue]

Where are you looking for these prices?
Newegg.com, Newegg.ca and NCIX.com all show the Corsair kit being cheaper than the Mushkin kit, especially at NCIX where it's vastly cheaper after rebate.

Just my opinion, but if you want to get the faster memory, do say so - otherwise, most of us are recommending getting what would serve you well for the money with the least waste. My question for you: Why do you want the PC2-8000 memory? What are you going to do that requires the added speed?

Edit:
Also, the Mushkin ones run higher voltage than the Corsair memory.
If I'm getting it wrong, please provide some links so we know what you're looking at specifically, I'm just guessing at the products here since searches reveal multiple matches on all sites.

 

[Maculosa]

Prices in CAD$

DirectCanada :

Mushkin Redline 79.55 + 99 cents shipping + NO Mir to deal with

Corsair XMS2 84.99 + 99 cents shipping.

NCIX:

Mushkin Redline 114.87 + Shipping

Corsair XMS2 48.99 + Shipping + Having to deal with a 30$ Mir.

 

[DarkRogue]

Hmm, I see.
Prices are a bit ...'unexpected' shall I say - DDR2-1000 is cheaper than DDR2-800 at most Canadian places. I wonder why.

Anyway, I would suggest this:
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/P...x?Item=N82E16820231122
BUT, it seems shipping+tax would kill it for you. I'm not sure where you are, but I plugged in the postal code of a friend who lives near Ontario and came up with nearly $20 in tax+shipping.

If you're buying these parts individually it's going to add up. It would be easier shipping-wise to buy everything from one place as that usually drops shipping costs a bit.
Anyway, if you want to get from DirectCanada, I would suggest these:
http://www.directcanada.com/products/?sku=15380BD0409
$69.89 + 99 cents shipping.

It doesn't seem like there's as much to choose from between these sites, and they all appear to want 2.0-2.1v so this would be cheaper than the Mushkins, and G.Skill is a good company from the things I've heard. It would be best to find RAM that uses 1.8-1.9v though, simply because that's the standard established, but I guess most people aren't as antsy as I am about overvolting things.

 

[0roo0roo]

Originally posted by: betasub

Originally posted by: DSF
You're fooling yourself if you think RAM speed will have any noticeable affect on gaming performance. Same goes for timings.

QFT.

OP should only be going for the more expensive PC2-8500 if he really needs the headroom for overclocking the E8400 beyond the standard bestbuy PC2-6400.

yup bang for buck is not there, ram is the last place to bother with anything fancy. first max out the gpu/cpu.

buy standard ram.
most of the time cooling fins on ram is just decoration. ram doesn't really get that hot to begin with. it only uses a few watts spread across an array of chips unlike the cpu.

20" is way too small. if you really are spending on top grade components you want either a 24-30" screen. 20" is a serious mismatch for a high end rig. its the last thing you should cheap out on, its what you spend your time looking at after all.

 

[Maculosa]

The GSkill 6400 Ram at newegg.ca (for 8 gig) come to $138.26 including Taxes and Shipping.

The GSkill 8000 at Direct Canada come to $150.01 Including Taxes and Shipping.

The Redlines 8000 From Direct Canada come to $170.60 including Taxes and Shipping.

There is only 20$ Diffence. If Redlines are better modules i don't worry to pay 20$ more. it's noting.
In the future, if i plan to overclock i will be happy to have pc8000 modules, if i get pc6400 i don't want to regret my buy in a near future.
The difference in price between pc6400 and pc8000 are not big so why not pc8000!

I don't remember seeing 4gig Pc8000 modules that run on 1.8 - 1.9 volt, they are all 2.0 - 2.1 which the redlines ares.

For the LCD Monitor i checked a bit today, since my rig is in budget i cannot go over 22" it will just cost too much.
The model i'm looking for at the moment is the Samsung 226BW which look like one of the best 22" low cost monitor...
But i still own a 21" Viewsonic CRT Professionnal Serie monitor (PF815). maybe i could keep my crt monitor instead of buying a new lcd ?

 

[Absolution75]

Looks like a solid build.

My suggetions:
1) Go with whatever ram is cheapest, stick to DDR800 (PC6400)
2) WD Cavalier 640GB is the fastest single 7200 drive on the market atm, its 2 platers of 320GB which makes it also very quiet. Pick up the 32mb cache if you want. . . or the 16, the 16 is a little cheaper.
3) Get the gigabyte motherboard, I'm happy with it, you will be too I'd think.

 

[DarkRogue]

I don't know what you mean by "better" modules, but if you're gunning for the Micron chips, neither of them use it.
The GSkills use Powerchips, the Redlines use something other than Microns.
Sources:
http://ramlist.i4memory.com/ddr2/
http://forums.mushkin.com/phpb...wtopic.php?f=4&t=10509

The PC2-8000 Micron-based Mushkin are over $250 for 1GB
http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=21690

That said, again I recommend the GSkills, because although both are great companies with great products, they are cheaper. If you do not want to save $20, go for the Mushkin.

As far as overclocking goes, PC2-6400 will only let you down if you plan to overclock past 400FSB - meaning above 3.6GHz for an E8400/Q6600/Q9650 or 4.0GHz on an E8600.

I don't remember seeing 4gig Pc8000 modules that run on 1.8 - 1.9 volt, they are all 2.0 - 2.1 which the redlines ares

Which is probably why most of us are recommending PC2-6400, as the bulk of those actually do run at 1.8-1.9v.
You can get that 6400 kit at Newegg and save another $12, grand total of $32 saved that can be put elsewhere.

The difference in price between pc6400 and pc8000 are not big so why not pc8000!

Purely up to you, you're the buyer here, we're only offering advice.
IMO, my answer to that would be because they would be wasted UNLESS you're going to OC past those specified levels.
Some may argue headroom though, so I don't know. The choice is yours and yours alone.

Edit:
Wouldn't 4x2GB DIMMs each eating ~2.1v put an incredible strain on the northbridge?

 

[sao123]

Originally posted by: Maculosa
The GSkill 6400 Ram at newegg.ca (for 8 gig) come to $138.26 including Taxes and Shipping.

The GSkill 8000 at Direct Canada come to $150.01 Including Taxes and Shipping.

The Redlines 8000 From Direct Canada come to $170.60 including Taxes and Shipping.

There is only 20$ Diffence. If Redlines are better modules i don't worry to pay 20$ more. it's noting.
In the future, if i plan to overclock i will be happy to have pc8000 modules, if i get pc6400 i don't want to regret my buy in a near future.
The difference in price between pc6400 and pc8000 are not big so why not pc8000!

I don't remember seeing 4gig Pc8000 modules that run on 1.8 - 1.9 volt, they are all 2.0 - 2.1 which the redlines ares.

For the LCD Monitor i checked a bit today, since my rig is in budget i cannot go over 22" it will just cost too much.
The model i'm looking for at the moment is the Samsung 226BW which look like one of the best 22" low cost monitor...
But i still own a 21" Viewsonic CRT Professionnal Serie monitor (PF815). maybe i could keep my crt monitor instead of buying a new lcd ?

Because the stock FSB of the E8x00 or Q9x50 is 333. this means it will run on PC-5400 DDR2-667. DDR2-800 already gives you overclocking room for the future, to actually use the extra potential of the DDR2-1000 requires an extreme overclocking and would require a water cooling solution, as you cant reach those speeds on air. Better to put that money elsewhere.


you could even save a little money on your motherboard by checking out the P5Q or P5Q pro, which are slightly cheaper than the P5Q-e. you would just be going from 2 LAN ports down to 1, and 2 PCI-E 2.0 x16 down to 1. Everything else is pretty much the same.


also... dont buy the SC edition of the EVGA 260 core 216... buy the regular one, and overclock it. you can get the same clock speeds out of it, and pay $30 less.

 

[Maculosa]

Despite of all your great advices, i bought 8gig of the Mushkin PC8000 Redlines, but i want to thank all of you for your advices, i greatly apreciate it!...

Today the Redlines are out of stock, i think it was a great deal since they sold all the stock in few days...

As for the HDD, it is the one that absolution75 talk about ?

Western Digital Caviar Black 640GB 7200RPM 32MB which sell at 88.83$ cad.

But the Western Digital Caviar SE16 640GB SATA2 7200RPM 16MB sell at 96.34$ cad...

Strange that the 32mb version is cheaper than the 16 mb!

 

[jae]

Shouldve saved your money and went with the DDR2-800, you already have the headroom with them, and since you will be a beginner overclocker I highly doubt you will use all that headroom. You couldve put the money saved towards your monitor, since your into graphics and 3D, the monitor is a very important component.

 

[Maculosa]

it's possible that i will not use all the headroom, but the ram cost me just about 30$ more... that's not big, as for the monitor, if i want to professionnal monitor (panel other than TN) they will cost me AT LOT MORE than 30$ saved on ram.

So for the monitor i will have to stay with a TN panel but i will try to find the best one... or keep my Professionnal serie 21" CRT Monitor.

 

[videogames101]

Wow... P2?

 

[jae]

what games do u exactly play. and what 3d and video apps do you use?