New AMD build - *budget* high performance gamer for 19x12

[SickBeast]

See how high it will clock on stock volts, then juice it and see what it will do maxed out. Use a decent air cooler like the Xigmatek.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: SickBeast
See how high it will clock on stock volts, then juice it and see what it will do maxed out. Use a decent air cooler like the Xigmatek.

i have the brand new Cooler Master Hyper n212 coming tomorrow. it is reported to be a decent cooler.

i should do all of this testing and max O/C'ing with X2 - long before i attempt to Unlock it, right?

 

[lopri]

Is there anything known about inner-working of ACC? (other than 'boost weaker cores' smoke screen) I know it unlocks some of the disabled cores, but it also raised performance on my 955BE by 2~5% depending on applications. This hasn't been much discussed but I'm very curious what the heck AMD is doing with this whole ACC business.

 

[lopri]

I mean, if it's something 100% legit and safe, I'd think AMD could figure out a way to make it as default in BIOS codes without allowing 'over-coring' for X2's and X3's? Leaving it as 'optional' gives me an impression that there is something AMD is hiding when it comes to ACC.

 

[SickBeast]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: SickBeast
See how high it will clock on stock volts, then juice it and see what it will do maxed out. Use a decent air cooler like the Xigmatek.

i have the brand new Cooler Master Hyper n212 coming tomorrow. it is reported to be a decent cooler.

i should do all of this testing and max O/C'ing with X2 - long before i attempt to Unlock it, right?

If you're going to genuinely review the thing, you might as well figure out what it's capable of, both locked and unlocked.

I would try to unlock it ASAP just out of curiousity, personally.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: lopri
I mean, if it's something 100% legit and safe, I'd think AMD could figure out a way to make it as default in BIOS codes without allowing 'over-coring' for X2's and X3's? Leaving it as 'optional' gives me an impression that there is something AMD is hiding when it comes to ACC.

So how can we find out?
- this sounds kinda like a conspiracy
:Q

i like unraveling conspiracies

 

[lopri]

EC Firmware (ACC in Gigabyte's wording)

Before EC Firmware

After EC Firmware

Everest runs vary quite a bit, but not by this much, and not as consistently. I tried to pick average values (ignore the memory latency in 'before' shot since that's an outlier).

One thing that stuck out most (which made me notice it) is the memory read. Before ACC, memory read always trailed L3 read by a few hundread MB/s, depending on memory and NB frequency. After ACC, I now observe memory read almost equaling L3 read and sometimes exceeding by a hair. This indicates to me that memory subsystem is more efficient by enabling ACC. Memory copy is increased by whooping 1000 MB/s.

I ran a few other benches and noticed small-to-tiny but meaningful performance increase as well.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: lopri
EC Firmware (ACC in Gigabyte's wording)

Before EC Firmware

After EC Firmware

Everest runs vary quite a bit, but not by this much, and not as consistently. I tried to pick average values (ignore the memory latency in 'before' shot since that's an outlier).

One thing that stuck out most (which made me notice it) is the memory read. Before ACC, memory read always trailed L3 read by a few hundread MB/s, depending on memory and NB frequency. After ACC, I now observe memory read almost equaling L3 read and sometimes exceeding by a hair. This indicates to me that memory subsystem is more efficient by enabling ACC. Memory copy is increased by whooping 1000 MB/s.

I ran a few other benches and noticed small-to-tiny but meaningful performance increase as well.

very cool

as i said i am brand new to AMD - and i am going to jump right in with an open mind
[ . . . . as an now embittered former intel fan - just kidding ]

How can i do my research on ACC? i need to catch up a bit. And i can run the same tests that you did; i have Everest Ultimate and Sandra Engineer also - plus i found my key for PC Mark Vantage. i am running the complete suite on my intel PC both at 3.1 GHz and at 4.0 Ghz - both sets with 4870-X2 and GTX 280 to make sure they correlate with each other. Of course, i am going to include my 13 game benchmark suite also

What would be the first steps after i build it and install the OS?

- run performance tests at stock
then at max OC

finally try to unlock the 4 cores
- run tests at stock
then at max OC

when and where would ACC come into play in my proposed benching ?

 

[lopri]

This was Gary's take on ACC circa July 2008.

http://www.anandtech.com/cpuch...howdoc.aspx?i=3360&p=2

Microprocessors are designed to operate in even the most extreme of conditions, AMD seemed to imply that its ability to adjust the ACC value somehow changes this. Curiously enough, AMD cited "competitive concerns" as a reason why it would not disclose exactly what's going on with this new overclocking feature. We can't help but wonder if it is because AMD is going a little too far in the sacrifices it's willing to make in the quest for higher clock speeds.

And the latest spin from AMD

http://www.bit-tech.net/hardwa...-phenom-ii-x3-720-be/1

Unlike the original Pheno's which benefited from a negative two to six percent ACC, Sami explained that with 45nm Phenom IIs it can be used to boost "weaker" CPU cores to higher speeds by using positive ACC. If there is one (or several), applying two percent ACC to that core(s), while leaving the rest at zero percent can eke out a few extra MHz. However he was also keen to point out it may or may not provide additional MHz over leaving ACC disabled - it's entirely down to the quality of the CPU and its synergy with the motherboard and BIOS.

I have not encountered a single account on how ACC works and am dying to know what the heck it does and how.

 

[apoppin]

I have not encountered a single account on how ACC works and am dying to know what the heck it does and how.

i have asked my contacts at AMD for an explanation. Admittedly they were tight-lipped about it when it first came out and it appears to use several factors including thermals. i am looking forward to testing their OverDrive out.

My Gigabyte MoBo is "out for delivery" and the only unknown is if Cooler Master shipped me hyper n212 today .. but then i have that cheesy little stock cooler ,, so i can get going on the build tonight


unfortunately i only got eight hours sleep . . .


... since Sunday night
:Q

[damn article i am writing finally goes up tonight]
:moon:

 

[soccerballtux]

Goes up where?

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: soccerballtux
Goes up where?

Click on my sig and see where it leads you
[CrossFire-X eXplored is my latest published review]


- i fell asleep at midnight writing a review on ten video card configurations compared, which means that it will be published today; i have to 'proof' my own article this afternoon

i am doing this current build to compare AMD Phenom II vs. Intel Penryn for a formal review - which will include exploring ACC in overclocking with Overdrive. Since i am an "Intel guy" for all my computer career, i need help from my friends here

Cooler Master sent me a new Gladiator 600 case, a Silent Power 600M PS and i expect their new Hyper n212 CPU cooler today. It is part of my 'value' series and i just picked AMD because i can get their parts cheap [i actually asked AMD for the parts; but they are SLOW to respond to me] and it seems to be excellent bang-for-buck to unlock and overclock a $100 CPU into a $250 quad core using an inexpensive CrossFire MoBo with cheap-as-hell DDR2 PC 8500

 

[apoppin]

http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16819103680

AMD Phenom II X2 550 Black Edition Callisto 3.1GHz 2 x 512KB L2 Cache 6MB L3 Cache Socket AM3 80W Dual-Core Processor - Retail
Your Price: $97.99
With Promo Code
EMCLTNS24

damn .. maybe i should call NewEgg and try to get an adjustment

NOW it goes on sale
- still free shipping in case anyone else wants to jump on a cheap quad core for under $100
{maybe}

 

[Stoneburner]

I ended up sticking my 550 in the biostar board i have. Technically it's a ta790gx 128 ...except the bios chip I got from ebay was apparently for the ta790gx a2+... But the board works fine. I'm using the standard heatpipe cooler that AVC makes for the higher end AMD chips. The cooler is surprisingly good from my experience and from frostytech's testing.

Bottom line, i shot up the voltage to 1.4, changed the multiplier to 19 and it booted into windows 7 64 with no problems. Acc unlocking worked without a hitch AFTER i downograded to the bios from january of this year.

OCCT testing showed it was not stable at 3.8 to 3.9... but I still have some work to do. I also wonder if having all 4 dimms populated hinders overclocking. I'm just surprised at how easily it got up to 3.8 to 3.9. I bet with closer to 1.5 volts and a better cooler 3.9 should be easily possible. I also have not used acc in any consistent manner.

EDIT: Just for comparison, the x3 710 I was using also unlocked to 4 cores but it could only clock up to about 3.125 ghz or so. The 550 starts at 3.1 !

 

[ZanatosFox]

Anyone have any experience with a Micro-ATX motherboard that will unlock cores?

 

[Stoneburner]

Originally posted by: apoppin
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16819103680

AMD Phenom II X2 550 Black Edition Callisto 3.1GHz 2 x 512KB L2 Cache 6MB L3 Cache Socket AM3 80W Dual-Core Processor - Retail
Your Price: $97.99
With Promo Code
EMCLTNS24

damn .. maybe i should call NewEgg and try to get an adjustment

NOW it goes on sale
- still free shipping in case anyone else wants to jump on a cheap quad core for under $100
{maybe}

That takes it below $100 which means the bill me later promo should not apply unless you add an item.

Assuming people can get this from 80 to 100 dollars, and possibly get a quad core deneb at 3.5 ghz or higher... what a steal.

 

[richierich1212]

Originally posted by: Stoneburner
That takes it below $100 which means the bill me later promo should not apply unless you add an item.

Assuming people can get this from 80 to 100 dollars, and possibly get a quad core deneb at 3.5 ghz or higher... what a steal.

Sure is!

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Stoneburner

Originally posted by: apoppin
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16819103680

AMD Phenom II X2 550 Black Edition Callisto 3.1GHz 2 x 512KB L2 Cache 6MB L3 Cache Socket AM3 80W Dual-Core Processor - Retail
Your Price: $97.99
With Promo Code
EMCLTNS24

damn .. maybe i should call NewEgg and try to get an adjustment

NOW it goes on sale
- still free shipping in case anyone else wants to jump on a cheap quad core for under $100
{maybe}

That takes it below $100 which means the bill me later promo should not apply unless you add an item.

Assuming people can get this from 80 to 100 dollars, and possibly get a quad core deneb at 3.5 ghz or higher... what a steal.

yes, thanks for pointing this out before i made a fool of myself on the phone

- i have everything now - the hyper n212 is late but i have the stock cooler and i will run all baseline tests at 3.1 GHz anyway

even if it doesn't unlock, it is a pretty good deal; and i will finally know something about AMD

 

[richierich1212]

apoppin quit lagging and show some damn screenshots already

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: richierich1212
apoppin quit lagging and show some damn screenshots already

i just got the MB yesterday .. and i have been busy


first of all, i am taking digital shots of all the HW .. this IS a formal review, you know
:camera:

THEN i put it together and run all the benches at 3.1 GHz - 4 times - with *two* video cards - at 19x12 and 16x10 resolution
- 15 gaming benchmarks [you are talking running 120 benches total - if everything goes well]


B-O-R-I-N-G
:frown:

then i overclock it to whatever it will max out as a dualie and do it all again
:clock:

really BORING
:moon:

THEN it gets interesting when i unlock the other 2 cores and repeat the above all over again
- we are talking next week

Sorry

i am slow but thorough

 

[apoppin]

*NOW* i am irritated :|

"Take 10% off all Motherboards"
- 72 hours only!! - NewEgg.com

Enter Promo Code* :
MBSALE10

timing is not so great for me .. but YOU can take advantage of both the Mobo and CPU sale to save about $30

i should start putting my new build together this evening and work on it all weekend; ALL of my Penryn benching is done as the *standard* i set to test the AMD PC against
- and frankly i think those synthetic tests are pretty useless
[PC Mark Vantage/Everest/Sandra] ,,, what do you guys think?
skip em? .. i am a *gamer* .. i don't "play" synthetics tests

 

[Sylvanas]

XS has a listed of CPU batches and whether they have had success on each motherboard here. You may want to compare this to what batch your 550 is when it arrives.

 

[SickBeast]

So can the thing unlock to 4 cores? :Q

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Sylvanas
XS has a listed of CPU batches and whether they have had success on each motherboard here. You may want to compare this to what batch your 550 is when it arrives.

[ 0915FPMW ]
0915FPMW - __adil__ - Gigabyte MA790FXT UD5P - F3K - Fail - Link
0915FPMW - Cele303 - DFI 790FXB-M2RSH - 2901 - Fail - Link
0915FPMW - Cele303 - Asrock AOD790GX/128M - P1.50 - Fail - Link

So can the thing unlock to 4 cores?

well, i would be the first success with this batch :Q
- although my MB is different: GIGABYTE GA-MA790X-UD4P .. and there are only 3 CPUs representative of this batch

- i will be working on building it *today*
-- it is the weekend ... and i FINALLY have time to devote to it
(all my current articles are done and i have the intel benches completed as a baseline)

 

[Stoneburner]

I got the 0919 batch, and it unlocked with the Biostar ta790gx very easily. It's running stable at 3.6 ghz now at about 1.375 volts, cool n quiet enabled. I'm using the AVC heatpipe cooler that the higher end AMD's come with (came with my x4 920) because this is in a HTPC with little clearance.

This is beautiful. Runs relatively cool for a quadcore at 3.6ghz, because it's multiplier based overclocking, the biostar board actually will go into and resume from s3 sleep. I bet this thing could hit 3.9 with better cooling and more voltage. IT boots into windows 7 at 3.9 and 1.45 voltage... just won't survive linpack. Maybe it doesn't even need more voltage, just a better heatsink.

ADDENDUM: I don't know if there's a heat issue really because biostar does not give this any HW monitoring software. I realize such software is not actually all that accurate BUT I don't need accuracy, i would like to know what the overall change in temp is. PC probe does this. Biostar has a h/w monitor in bios so I guess speedfan should be able to read the temps.

Overall, I really like this board. It even allows CnQ with overclocking, something gigabyte does not do. And it's unlocking of cores is the easiest.. with the older bios at least.