New AMD build - *budget* high performance gamer for 19x12

[apoppin]

Does "high performance PC gamer" and "budget" go together ?
--It will be my first AMD system for me and i'd like suggestions, please

i want to game at 19x12 with a GTX280 or a 4870-X2 and i'd like it to be as budget as possible
- i already have the case, CM 600w PS and a decent CPU cooler for overclocking

What CPU/MB combo will give me the most bang for buck? - something i have a good chance to unlock 2 cores perhaps, for a quad system.

i know it probably won't match my Q9550s, but i'd still like to see what i can put together on a budget that will be a good gaming PC.

UPDATE:
CPU is Phenom II 550 X2 with a mission to unlock 2 cores and overclock it to 4 GHz []
The Gigabyte MB ordered from NewEgg - $102.99 shipped; should be here on Wednesday and i can put it together; just got $39 after MiR OCZ PC8500
i already have a Gladiator 600 case, 600w PS and hyper 212 CPU cooler by Coolermaster and a 4870-X2 and a GTX 280 to test against my intel q9550s PC

further UPDATES:
550 X2 doesn't unlock but - so far on the STOCK cooler - gets 3.7 GHz and only now the temps are starting to rise [mid 40sC] - i install Hyper N212 today and go for Max OC

720 X3 [$119 from the 'egg] arrived yesterday - batch No.: 0904EPMW - it is reported to have a good chance of unlocking the 4th core; i will try to get to it today - just to see if it unlocks; and then back to OC'ing 550 X2

Final update; i know it has taken forever .. but the link to the review is in my sig

 

[soccerballtux]

Lol, Apoppin is back. Thought you were teh banzored.

You of all people know how to put a rig together.
I haven't spec'd an AMD out but the 4890 is the card you want for 19x12 in my opinion...

 

[LoneNinja]

Personally I'd say a Phenom II X4 940 with a 790GX(I'll let you choose the brand) would be the best price/performance available from AMD quad cores. If you don't need the quad, but still want a chance of getting one, you could get a Phenom II X3 720 as it'll game just as well as the Phenom II X4 940.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: soccerballtux
Lol, Apoppin is back. Thought you were teh banzored.

You of all people know how to put a rig together.
I haven't spec'd an AMD out but the 4890 is the card you want for 19x12 in my opinion...

Well thanks, i guess
- i never was gone or banned .. at least not yet

Yes i DO know how to put an Intel PC together .. and i have a 4870-X2 *already* that i want to use - it is considerably faster than GTX280 or 4890 at 19x12 as i have already tested this.

However, i am looking for an AMD system

1. CPU - preferably cheap and unlockable
2. MB - AMD or Nforce is fine .. maybe i'd like to have SLi options if i use my GTX280 [doubtful - but let me know what is good bang for buck and very over clockable. What about Asrock?

Personally I'd say a Phenom II X4 940 with a 790GX(I'll let you choose the brand) would be the best price/performance available from AMD quad cores. If you don't need the quad, but still want a chance of getting one, you could get a Phenom II X3 720 as it'll game just as well as the Phenom II X4 940.

Thank-you! How about one of their Dual cores that can be unlocked - maybe X550?
- a *cheap* quad - doesn't Gigabyte support unlocking the "extra" 2 cores ??

 

[richierich1212]

Yes the 550 can be unlocked.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: richierich1212
Yes the 550 can be unlocked.

i have been doing my research
- i AM *doing* an AMD build - this is not theory; i will share results with you guys

i just want to keep down expenses. Heck, if i can get close to my Penryn, i might sell my intel system
:Q

we'll see

ANYWAY:

Unlocking Blocked Cores

and it has been done again and again . . . Shall i take a chance .. cheap enough:

AMD Phenom II X2 550 Black Edition Callisto 3.1GHz 2 x 512KB L2 Cache 6MB L3 Cache Socket AM3 80W Dual-Core Processor - Retail - $102.99

http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16819103680

What MB will give me best chances to unlock and overclock? *BUDGET* please.

is this my only choice? way too damned expensive
- there has got to be cheap alternatives
[it's AMD, right ? ]

For example, new BIOS updates for the Gigabyte MA790FXT-UD5P mainboard that we use in our testbed even got an additional option that offers you to choose between two BIOS versions: new one without the option for unlocking blocked processor cores and old one with this option.

Heck, if i even get close to 4 GHz on all 4 cores, i will keep it and sell my other system

what MB and RAM?

 

[richierich1212]

This gigabyte board can unlock the 710/720/550. $109.99.

 

[Sylvanas]

Unlocking cores is hit and miss, you may buy it and find it doesn't unlock in which case you would have got what you paid for but probably be a little disappointed- up to you. I'd say either an X3 720 or 940 Quad, if you know what you're doing most should clock to 3.6ghz, good cooling 3.8 and beyond if you want to go further (I can get 3.9ghz stable 64bit, can probably be over 4ghz+ on 32bit). You may be interested in my 955 overclocking adventure which will introduce you to OCing a Deneb if you are unfamiliar. For budget mobos, I'd go either Biostar 790GX or Giga 790x both are cheap alternatives with a solid reputation. The Biostar has an onboard IGP, the Giga does not. AMD is great for gaming For ram, get some decent 2x2gb modules, might aswell get 1066, if not 800mhz will do. I have my 800mhz ram @ 1t which is faster than same timings at 1066 2t- these were bargain bin Gskill too

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Sylvanas
Unlocking cores is hit and miss, you may buy it and find it doesn't unlock in which case you would have got what you paid for but probably be a little disappointed- up to you. I'd say either an X3 720 or 940 Quad, if you know what you're doing most should clock to 3.6ghz, good cooling 3.8 and beyond if you want to go further (I can get 3.9ghz stable 64bit, can probably be over 4ghz+ on 32bit). You may be interested in my 955 overclocking adventure which will introduce you to OCing a Deneb if you are unfamiliar. For budget mobos, I'd go either Biostar 790GX or Giga 790x both are cheap alternatives with a solid reputation. The Biostar has an onboard IGP, the Giga does not. AMD is great for gaming For ram, get some decent 2x2gb modules, might aswell get 1066, if not 800mhz will do. I have my 800mhz ram @ 1t which is faster than same timings at 1066 2t- these were bargain bin Gskill too

Thank-you .. this is pretty much what i am looking for

i have had extraordinary luck with unlocking and overclocking .. and it is an adventure
- i could almost buy two 550s for the price of a single AMD 940 Quad .. so i think i will go for the 550 and $109 looks OK for the GIGABYTE GA-MA790X-UD4P MB.

this looks like fun .. more comments are always welcome as it looks like i am going to go for it

 

[Stoneburner]

I've had success unlocking with the gigabyte 790x board, biostar ta790gx, and asus m4a78-e (with latest bioses). I've heard the latest bios for the biostars may ELIMINATE unlocking... have not checked as i fried my bios when i was updating My personal favorite board is the gigabyte though...

 

[apoppin]

So are the partners rebelling or is AMD relenting on the unlocking?
- i bet AMD wants this OC'ing for the tech enthusiasts but cannot say so

i liked my P35 CrossFire MB by Gigabyte; it was fully featured and a decent OC'er

what are my chances of successfully unlocking 4 cores and having them stable?
- it looks to be well over 50% from what i see; but then enthusiasts rarely report failures
[i will]

 

[Keysplayr]

I have success unlocking a PhenomII 720BE and with stock HSF was able to run 3.2GHz stable.
There is only ONE anomaly when doing this. When the system is cold, it will not start up on the first push of the power button. No post beeps, no BIOS screen, nothing. Just the hum of the fans. I have to either push the "reset" button, or hold the Power button 5 seconds for shutdown, then push again to start. Then all is fine. This behavior NEVER occurs when ACC is disabled in the BIOS and I'm only using 3 cores. Only when ACC is set to "Auto" and using 4 cores. This happens every single time. No exceptions. Thought you should know about this if you ran into it.

System:
PhenomII 720BE (unlocked and o/c'd slightly to 3.2)
Gigabyte MA790GT-UD4H
4GB (2x2GB) G.Skill DDR2 1066 5-5-5-18.
GTX295 or GTX280 (swapping back and forth).
Vista 32.

This system (when unlocked and at stock clocks) gets relatively the same performance of my Q6600 at 2.4)
You would have to overclock this rig to about 4.5 GHz to come close to your Q9550s Penryn. IMHO. Just a guess at the clocks there.

PhenomII's are pretty good for gaming. Just about equal to Penryn clock for clock from most benches I've seen. At least to a point where you wouldn't notice the difference. i7 is another story for another thread. hehe.

I'd personally go with this:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16819103649

http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16813128387 Crossfire Support

http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16820231166

Buying a Tri-core, IMHO, would net you a better chance of unlocking 1 core instead of 2 if you got the PhenomII 550 and expect to have those 2 cores defect free.

Last edit: Get a good HSF. The stock one is pretty cheesy. But I still got to 3.2 on stock voltage.

 

[apoppin]

Thanks for the advice!

is this an issue with your MB or the core? i had an ASrock MB that always needed a second start and worked perfectly otherwise
- once it restarts, is it perfectly stable?

Which CPU has a better chance of overclocking? - the tri-core or the 550? i do not expect to touch i7 performance - but then this is a VALUE rig i am building to set alongside Penryn - i expect a 4.0 GHz O/C on a stable unlocked 550 will match my current PC's gaming performance

i am getting Cooler Masters hyper n212. it is a solid upgrade over n520 that i used before - it is 'budget', quiet and cools very well - almost as well as my Thermalright cooler

the reason i am picking HD4870-X2 [or my GTX280] is because i already have them; if i were buying new video cards for my build, i would pick a pair of 4850s which are really cheap [i see CF lanes are 16x +8X; which is fine in that gigabyte MB] or 4850-X2 maybe - or perhaps 4890 [or GTX275 - but which i cannot find on sale]

the GSkill RAM FtW
- thanks!!

 

[Alienwho]

Originally posted by: Keysplayr
I have success unlocking a PhenomII 720BE and with stock HSF was able to run 3.2GHz stable.
There is only ONE anomaly when doing this. When the system is cold, it will not start up on the first push of the power button. No post beeps, no BIOS screen, nothing. Just the hum of the fans. I have to either push the "reset" button, or hold the Power button 5 seconds for shutdown, then push again to start. Then all is fine. This behavior NEVER occurs when ACC is disabled in the BIOS and I'm only using 3 cores. Only when ACC is set to "Auto" and using 4 cores. This happens every single time. No exceptions. Thought you should know about this if you ran into it.

I had this same problem the first few times I booted from a coldboot. Hasn't happened to me in a few days, however. I have noticed that if I don't restart the computer while at the post screen my computer will freeze while loading windows, so I've gotten in the habit of pressing the reset button about 5 seconds after a cold boot. I'm not sure why this is necessary but it works flawlessly. I love my unlocked X3.

 

[soonerproud]

I also successfully unlocked a X3 720 using a ASRock motherboard.

I had issues with the south bridge of the motherboard that affected the PC with the CPU either locked or unlocked. (The SATA controller was bad and would thrash the hard drive constantly even with the most up to date bios and drivers and it borked my hard drive.) After having to RMA bad RAM and then getting it back to have the other issue, I just packed it all up, sent it back to newegg and bought the stuff in my current system.

It was probably a shipping issue or other anomaly, but I felt you should know my experience with the ASRock mobo. ( The hard drive did not fail right away afterwards. It took a month but I just had to ship it back to WD last week for RMA.)

 

[Stoneburner]

Originally posted by: Alienwho

Originally posted by: Keysplayr
I have success unlocking a PhenomII 720BE and with stock HSF was able to run 3.2GHz stable.
There is only ONE anomaly when doing this. When the system is cold, it will not start up on the first push of the power button. No post beeps, no BIOS screen, nothing. Just the hum of the fans. I have to either push the "reset" button, or hold the Power button 5 seconds for shutdown, then push again to start. Then all is fine. This behavior NEVER occurs when ACC is disabled in the BIOS and I'm only using 3 cores. Only when ACC is set to "Auto" and using 4 cores. This happens every single time. No exceptions. Thought you should know about this if you ran into it.

I had this same problem the first few times I booted from a coldboot. Hasn't happened to me in a few days, however. I have noticed that if I don't restart the computer while at the post screen my computer will freeze while loading windows, so I've gotten in the habit of pressing the reset button about 5 seconds after a cold boot. I'm not sure why this is necessary but it works flawlessly. I love my unlocked X3.

Interesting. Maybe the biostar with the older bios is the way to go then. Unlocking is overall the most pain free on that board and it can be obtained for $100 after rebate sometimes.

 

[apoppin]

How about this for RAM (PC8500)?

OCZ 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 1066 (PC2 8500) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model OCZ2G10664GK - Retail
$48.99 free shipping

OR .. rebaterus rex ..

OCZ Fatal1ty Edition 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 1066 (PC2 8500) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model OCZ2F10664GK - Retail

($39.99 after $10.00 Mail-In
Rebate )
Free Shipping*

added to cart

talk me out of it if it is not so good ... i have OCZ now and i have used it in many many builds
- $40 shipped after MiR is *CHEAP* .. cheap .. cheap
- perfect for a budget build

i am still researching the MB
the 550 is what i want - plus it looks like a good oc'er if all 4 cores are stable

 

[Stoneburner]

Originally posted by: apoppin
How about this for RAM (PC8500)?

OCZ 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 1066 (PC2 8500) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model OCZ2G10664GK - Retail
$48.99 free shipping

OR .. rebaterus rex ..

OCZ Fatal1ty Edition 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 1066 (PC2 8500) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model OCZ2F10664GK - Retail

($39.99 after $10.00 Mail-In
Rebate )
Free Shipping*

added to cart

talk me out of it if it is not so good ... i have OCZ now and i have used it in many many builds
- $40 shipped after MiR is *CHEAP* .. cheap .. cheap
- perfect for a budget build

i am still researching the MB
the 550 is what i want - plus it looks like a good oc'er if all 4 cores are stable

That OCZ fatality memory can be a real pain to get working in some motherboards. I personally could not get it to play right with my biostar ta790gx. You'll see others' on newegg complain of other boards.

The platinum I have no experience with... but it has to be better than the Fatality version.

I like this stuff best, though it's a bit pricier.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/...066%20%28PC2%208500%29

 

[apoppin]

oops .. i ordered it

i do have the OCZ platinum series and it does as it advertises

i am all about budget on this build .. save a penny if i can; if it is defective, NewEgg will exchange it and i can split my current ram to set it up
- i noticed it requires 2.0 v to reach PC8500 speeds; that leaves some room for solid overvoltage

 

[evolucion8]

nm

 

[taltamir]

ok wait... lemme see if i get it right... you want:
1. AMD only, no shopping around
2. Budget
3. High end
4. Gamer

 

[SickBeast]

I like the new dual core Athlon II's from a budget perspective. Just put it into the cheapest motherboard you can get that can overclock it.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: taltamir
ok wait... lemme see if i get it right... you want:
1. AMD only, no shopping around
2. Budget
3. High end
4. Gamer

Yes .. ding .. ding .. ding ..
---we have teh Winnar!

why not?

1.) i already have a decent Intel tri-fire PC
2.) sure i am broke but still interested in doing this; i never build an AMD PC for myself
3.) .. by "high end" i defined it as 19x12 gamer using a 4870-X2 which i already have

4.) i am a "gamer" .. do i have to explain myself further ?

i want to see if an AMD value PC can compete with a much more expensive Intel PC

everyone says so .. i want to see for myself

 

[Gikaseixas]

Make sure your cooler is good enough if you want to reach 3.8/4.0 with it. Good luck

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Gikaseixas
Make sure your cooler is good enough if you want to reach 3.8/4.0 with it. Good luck

Thank-you

i will let you know as i get parts. The cool thing is that i can swap HW back and forth between my propose build and my current PC - the RAM and CPU cooler come to mind

For budget cooling, Cooler Master's Hyper n212 is what i am getting - they are really quiet and cool well
http://www.anandtech.com/casec...howdoc.aspx?i=3141&p=8