New 16ms response UXGA 20.1" LCD

[Betelgeuse]

Sharp today announced a new 20.1" LCD the LL-T2015 to be released in Japan at the end of the month. This new display apparently has a 16ms response time and good overall specs, here's a brief from Digit-Life:
"Japanese Sharp announced 20.1" TFT LCD monitor LL-T2015 with max. resolution of 1600 x 1200 dots (UXGA) that is will be on sale from Aug 26. There will be two versions released ? with black and white body. Estimated price for the model is about $1500.
LL-T2015 is equipped with two interfaces ? D-Sub & DVI-I, brightness ? 250 nit, contrast ratio 400:1, viewing angle ? 176 degrees both horizontal and vertical. Dimensions ? 450 õ 228 õ 438~498 mm, weight is about 9.8 kg."

I wonder when these will be available in North America and whether these are true 16ms, 16 million colour displays. Would be awesome if they were, can't wait for more info...
BTW, are Sharp LCDs any good, never seen nor used one?

 

[nboy22]

i remember something saying that 16ms was not as good for gaming as 25 ms.. i have no clue why that would be, but it was at www.tomshardware.com it sounds unreasonable, but i'm almost sure that, that is what the article was trying to explain

 

[Confused]

Originally posted by: nboy22
i remember something saying that 16ms was not as good for gaming as 25 ms.. i have no clue why that would be, but it was at www.tomshardware.com it sounds unreasonable, but i'm almost sure that, that is what the article was trying to explain

Uhm, lower response times would be better.

1000/25 = 40 changes per second
1000/16 = 62.5 changes per second = less blurry, less ghosting.

I thought for a long time Tom was smoking something he shouldn't be, and if he's trying to say that 25ms is better than 16ms...then he must be one of these "higher number is better" people


Confused

 

[Apex]

Tom is saying that the new 20ms rated panel is functionally faster than the 16ms rated panel, manufacturer's specs aside. He is quite correct in this. If he was implying that a 25ms total average response time was inherently better than a 16ms total average response time, than yes, he would be puffing on the good stuff.

This does not apply in this case, because the Sharp 16ms panel is brand new, and may actually be better.

 

[AgaBoogaBoo]

Originally posted by: Confused

Originally posted by: nboy22
i remember something saying that 16ms was not as good for gaming as 25 ms.. i have no clue why that would be, but it was at www.tomshardware.com it sounds unreasonable, but i'm almost sure that, that is what the article was trying to explain

Uhm, lower response times would be better.

1000/25 = 40 changes per second
1000/16 = 62.5 changes per second = less blurry, less ghosting.

I thought for a long time Tom was smoking something he shouldn't be, and if he's trying to say that 25ms is better than 16ms...then he must be one of these "higher number is better" people


Confused

I think on the articles at this site they are mentioning gray to gray (?) times or something which is different than what is advertised because even if the response time is 16ms but changing to certain colors that they measure is fast, could mean less about other colors it has to change to. I don't know very much about LCD screens but if you go back and read some of the Anandtech articles on LCD screens, that could be of use.

 

[Betelgeuse]

The quoted response time is not always what it seems. Some manufacturers only state the rise time (Tr) while others will state the rise and fall times added (the proper way.) Furthermore, the response times give are usually only an average, or best case scenario. This means going from full black to full white and back to full black again, this is usually faster than going from a grey colour to another grey because the panel can apply maximum voltage to the pixel. When going from grey to grey it has to apply reduced voltage and stabilize it at this reduced voltage. Some companies are working on something called feed-forward technology in which the panel always applies maximum voltage and cuts it off at the appropriate time. This is not easy to do as it requires PRECISE timings to get the colours right.
Anyway, Sharp advertises this as a true 24-bit panel (unlike the AU Optronics which is a 18-bit panel), so hopefully they didn't sacrifice any image quality to get fast response time. Lets hope these show up in North America sooner rather than later. I was going to buy an NEC LCD2080UX this week but the announcement of this panel put brakes on that, still I'm trying to figure out whether it is worth waiting for this new display. Any opinions?

 

[SKORPI0]

Link with Pix

 

[cliftonite]

Man cant wait for some reviews on this. Would love to spurlge on this if it was good for gaming.

 

[KristopherKubicki]

Vincent (THG) reads our forums as much as I read his. He's basically trying to repeat the addage that low response times are great but they are not the endall (particularlly in the grey to grey stream). So no, 25ms response times are not better than 16ms response times, however, some monitors have better grey to grey response times while suffering in the black to white response time area.

It will be forever and a day before these guys show up in the US, but hopefully I can nab one at Computex next month for a review. Im STILL waiting on LG for their 16ms panels.

hope that helps

kristopher

 

[Betelgeuse]

Yes, it usually takes forever for these things to make their way over here. I wonder why?
Anyway, is there a way to import these monitors from Japan apart from travelling there? Would they even work here?

 

[rickon66]

Start saving NOW

 

[JackBurton]

Gorgeous LCD!

 

[arcas]

Agreed. Very nice looking design from the pics. I particularlay like the small bezel.

 

[Betelgeuse]

Well, I've saved up quite a bit JUST for a monitor and I'm ITCHING to spend it. But darn it, I'd really like to get this unit. The problem is I've never seen Sharp for sale anywhere. They released another 20" model earlier this year (the LL-T2020) and I have not seen it anywhere yet. So the point is, hopes of seeing this monitor in the US in any near or distant future are slim. Darn it, darn it all to hell!!!!!!!! :| :| :| :| :| :| :|

 

[cliftonite]

any news on these units yet?

 

[cliftonite]

Here is a cnet review. Can anyone translate japanese

 

[Tegeril]

The NEC 2080 is awesome, hope this can compete.

 

[KristopherKubicki]

Sharp does a lot of OEM stuff. They make a name for themselves selling big* LCD screens. Ill see if I can pick some up at Computex.

Cheers,

Kristopher

 

[wetcat007]

Originally posted by: Apex
Tom is saying that the new 20ms rated panel is functionally faster than the 16ms rated panel, manufacturer's specs aside. He is quite correct in this. If he was implying that a 25ms total average response time was inherently better than a 16ms total average response time, than yes, he would be puffing on the good stuff.

This does not apply in this case, because the Sharp 16ms panel is brand new, and may actually be better.

Ok so wait, does that mean I should want a Samsung 172T over a Hitachi 174CML ???

 

[bjc112]

Originally posted by: rickon66
Start saving NOW

Yep.

$1500 can put a hurtin' on your wallet..

Would be gorgeous to have though..

 

[SaigonK]

16 is better right5?

 

[KristopherKubicki]

SaigonK: The sad fact that we have mentioned before is that it really doesnt make as much difference as you would like. The advertised black-to-white response time is good, but the gray-to-gray is much more important. This is not advertised usually, but on TN models based on the AUO substrate are not very good. Go for a monitor because it has good colors and quality, not because it has 16ms response time.

Kristopher

 

[JKing76]

What ever happened to Feed-Forward Driving? That was supposed to fix all the gray-gray transistion problems and end up with the black-white transitions being the slowest.

 

[ksv666]

Kris,

Don't mean to hit you up on multiple threads, but will you publish a matrix of grey to grey?

-Kirk

 

[MercenaryForHire]

Originally posted by: Confused
I thought for a long time Tom was smoking something he shouldn't be

Don't blame the drug, blame the dumbass smoking it.

Memo to Mr Pabst - you are not the überMensch of the computing world.

- M4H