Never quite (completely) happy with my PC purchases...

[VirtualLarry]

You just erected this thread about not being satisfied and used that tablet as an example, now you're defending it in the same thread...

You're either happy with your purchases or you're not... Make up your mind. Buy something that suits you instead of attempting to acclimate yourself to the cheapest products you can get your hands on. That method is obviously not working.

Well, like I tried to express... the tablet is "adequate". Just barely. If it had 4GB of RAM, and 32GB (or more) eMMC, it would be great, almost ideal.

To put it in perspective, it's still faster browsing on this 1GB tablet, and paging out to the eMMC, than it is to browse on my quad-core Q9300 rig with 240GB SATA2 SSD and GT630 video card... when doing DC on said quad-core. Especially F@H.

Edit: I had already stopped doing F@H on the Q9300, and then I installed Linux Mint 17.1 in a dual-boot config. Mint is nice, has some major bugs (no swapfile due to installer bugs), and I can browse and Skype if I don't do DC on the GPU, and limit my CPU DC to two out of the four CPU cores. In fact, even though DC is supposed to only take idle cycles, the way Skype measures CPU time, if I run DC on all four cores, Skype won't run right. If I DC on three cores, Skype degrades the video. Two cores is OK.

 

[cbn]

You just erected this thread about not being satisfied and used that tablet as an example, now you're defending it in the same thread...

You're either happy with your purchases or you're not... Make up your mind. Buy something that suits you instead of attempting to acclimate yourself to the cheapest products you can get your hands on. That method is obviously not working.

In the opening post he does state he probably wouldn't have bought the $230 laptops if he would have know these $60 tablets would have been available.

I have some N2830-based laptops too, that I purchased before the tablets. If I had known that tablets would be available a few months later for $60 instead of $230, and I could use them as desktops, I probably wouldn't have bought the laptops.

So it sounds like he actually likes the tablets, but wishes there were more RAM and better eMMC in them.

The $60 price bracket at MC, it sounds like it is going to get there eventually.

 

[2is]

In the opening post he does state he probably wouldn't have bought the $230 laptops if he would have know these $60 tablets would have been available.



So it sounds like he actually likes the tablets, but wishes there were more RAM and better eMMC in them.

The $60 price bracket at MC, it sounds like it is going to get there eventually.

That just means the laptops suck also. Deciding between two crappy products isn't the answer to being satisfied with your PC purchases, and it doesn't have more memory or eMMC so that's a moot point. I'm not suggesting a crappy laptop to replace a crappy tablet. I'm suggesting buying something that's not crap.

 

[VirtualLarry]

In the opening post he does state he probably wouldn't have bought the $230 laptops if he would have know these $60 tablets would have been available.

So it sounds like he actually likes the tablets, but wishes there were more RAM and better eMMC in them.

The $60 price bracket at MC, it sounds like it is going to get there eventually.

Yes, I regret the purchase of the laptops, more than the tablets. (Edit: This makes it seem like I regret buying the tablets, but I guess that remains to be seen. I'm concerned about the eMMC filling up due to Windows Updates.) I wanted a cheap, but adequate, low-power, self-contained, desktop-alike (adaptable to be a desktop), that takes less room and power than a standard ATX PC.

The laptops fit the bill, but being only dual-cores, they are more limited than the tablets, which are quad-cores. Though the laptops have 4GB RAM, which would make the tablets virtually ideal, if they also had 4GB. But they don't. So there's a tiny bit of lag on opening new tabs, as it pages out to the eMMC. Although, it's actually probably the same or less lag than opening pages on the laptop, due to its 5400RPM HDD.

I guess I'm just annoyed at buying the $230 laptops (two of them), when I could replace their utility nearly entirely with a pair of $60 tablets, a few months later.

 

[eton975]

Yes, I regret the purchase of the laptops, more than the tablets. I wanted a cheap, but adequate, low-power, self-contained, desktop-alike (adaptable to be a desktop), that takes less room and power than a standard ATX PC.

The laptops fit the bill, but being only dual-cores, they are more limited than the tablets, which are quad-cores. Though the laptops have 4GB RAM, which would make the tablets virtually ideal, if they also had 4GB. But they don't. So there's a tiny bit of lag on opening new tabs, as it pages out to the eMMC. Although, it's actually probably the same or less lag than opening pages on the laptop, due to its 5400RPM HDD.

I guess I'm just annoyed at buying the $230 laptops (two of them), when I could replace their utility nearly entirely with a pair of $60 tablets, a few months later.

Why not build a MicroATX system with a Haswell Celeron/Pentium, a 64-128GB SSD and a 150W PSU? To save power, underclock and undervolt.

 

[dave_the_nerd]

Edit: I had already stopped doing F@H on the Q9300, and then I installed Linux Mint 17.1 in a dual-boot config. Mint is nice, has some major bugs (no swapfile due to installer bugs), and I can browse and Skype if I don't do DC on the GPU, and limit my CPU DC to two out of the four CPU cores. In fact, even though DC is supposed to only take idle cycles, the way Skype measures CPU time, if I run DC on all four cores, Skype won't run right. If I DC on three cores, Skype degrades the video. Two cores is OK.

Look up "nice" settings. Idle cycles don't mean what you think they mean.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Look up "nice" settings. Idle cycles don't mean what you think they mean.

When I said "idle cyles", even though I mentioned Linux, my terminology is mostly Windows-oriented.

At least in Windows, "idle cycles", means CPU cycles scheduled at "IDLE" priority, which is below "NORMAL" priority, which is the default for applications.

So what I don't get is (in Windows as well as Linux), if BOINC is running the worker threads at "IDLE" priority, and Skype is running at "Normal" priority, why Skype doesn't just get as much CPU time as it needs. But it apparently monitors CPU usage (even processes scheduled as "IDLE"), and if it doesn't see enough free CPU cycles, it degrades the video quality.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Why not build a MicroATX system with a Haswell Celeron/Pentium, a 64-128GB SSD and a 150W PSU? To save power, underclock and undervolt.

MicroATX is too big. If I were to build some smaller rigs, I would use this ITX case:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811165505

Ugh, they are sold out, and may be discontinued. That really sucks. That was a sweet little ITX case, with a decent PSU.

Maybe I won't be building any ITX rigs any time soon.

I picked up a few of these cheap Habey cases:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811321013

Unfortunately, they are cheap chinese under-engineered junk (unlike that other iStarUSA case), and the interface between the DC in jack and the case, is just a routed-out hole, and a press-fit plastic connector, with metal pins for ground and power. It's absolutely junk.

I was surprised that none of the Newegg reviews mentioned that deficiency.

 

[frozentundra123456]

Yes, I regret the purchase of the laptops, more than the tablets. (Edit: This makes it seem like I regret buying the tablets, but I guess that remains to be seen. I'm concerned about the eMMC filling up due to Windows Updates.) I wanted a cheap, but adequate, low-power, self-contained, desktop-alike (adaptable to be a desktop), that takes less room and power than a standard ATX PC.

The laptops fit the bill, but being only dual-cores, they are more limited than the tablets, which are quad-cores. Though the laptops have 4GB RAM, which would make the tablets virtually ideal, if they also had 4GB. But they don't. So there's a tiny bit of lag on opening new tabs, as it pages out to the eMMC. Although, it's actually probably the same or less lag than opening pages on the laptop, due to its 5400RPM HDD.

I guess I'm just annoyed at buying the $230 laptops (two of them), when I could replace their utility nearly entirely with a pair of $60 tablets, a few months later.

Well, if it makes you feel any better, I bought a 200.00 android tablet a couple of years ago that is a total POS. Lousy wi-fi , lousy battery life, and dog slow. I want to just go crazy when I see how much of a better system I could get now for 60.00, because I do live fairly close to a micro center.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Well, if it makes you feel any better, I bought a 200.00 android tablet a couple of years ago that is a total POS. Lousy wi-fi , lousy battery life, and dog slow. I want to just go crazy when I see how much of a better system I could get now for 60.00, because I do live fairly close to a micro center.

I feel your pain, bro.

Sounds like you might be due for an upgrade...

I wonder too, if Cherry Trail tablets will be post- Contra Revenue, if prices will actually go up, for entry-level Windows tablets. Plus, Win 10 might be subscription-based, so even if you plunk down $100 for a CT / Win 10 tablet, you might be paying $50 / year for "maintenance".

 

[eton975]

Ugh, they are sold out, and may be discontinued. That really sucks.

This is a slightly different iStarUSA Mini-ITX case that isn't sold out.

Is there any particular reason you need to go so small, though? You pay a premium for motherboards.

 

[tential]

That just means the laptops suck also. Deciding between two crappy products isn't the answer to being satisfied with your PC purchases, and it doesn't have more memory or eMMC so that's a moot point. I'm not suggesting a crappy laptop to replace a crappy tablet. I'm suggesting buying something that's not crap.

I guess not everyone is blessed with good decision making skills. This is literally an embarrassing thread to watch.

 

[VirtualLarry]

I guess not everyone is blessed with good decision making skills. This is literally an embarrassing thread to watch.

C'mon man, lay off. Not everyone is perfect, and blessed with pre-cognition skills, like you obviously are.

If I had asked the forums, in August, should I buy those laptops, you would have been able to tell me, "no, hold off, they are going to have $60 tablets in December", right?

 

[tential]

C'mon man, lay off. Not everyone is perfect, and blessed with pre-cognition skills, like you obviously are.

If I had asked the forums, in August, should I buy those laptops, you would have been able to tell me, "no, hold off, they are going to have $60 tablets in December", right?

I would have said don't buy either. You're clearly not understanding what me, 2is, and like 8 other members are trying to explain to you.

2is said it already, you purchased something that you already knew needed more ram, and had other deficiencies. You'll be soon dissatisfied with this purchase as well. But well, you seem to prefer to keep a steady flow of "new" products coming in, no matter how deficient they are at the task you want to do, because you like new shiny tech objects and spending money. So that's your own choice.

 

[VirtualLarry]

I would have said don't buy either. You're clearly not understanding what me, 2is, and like 8 other members are trying to explain to you.

2is said it already, you purchased something that you already knew needed more ram, and had other deficiencies. You'll be soon dissatisfied with this purchase as well. But well, you seem to prefer to keep a steady flow of "new" products coming in, no matter how deficient they are at the task you want to do, because you like new shiny tech objects and spending money. So that's your own choice.

So what device would be "worthy" of a purchase in your eyes? For web browsing, Skype, internet radio, etc.? A pair of Surface 3 Pro (w/i5) units? Or just hold out, and not buy anything for 5-10 years, until they come out with 7" tablets with the specs that I think would be ideal?

I'm not dis-satisfied with the tablets. Most people that have purchased them, seem to think that they offer a lot of bang for the buck, for the price.

 

[tential]

So what device would be "worthy" of a purchase in your eyes? For web browsing, Skype, internet radio, etc.? A pair of Surface 3 Pro (w/i5) units? Or just hold out, and not buy anything for 5-10 years, until they come out with 7" tablets with the specs that I think would be ideal?

I'm not dis-satisfied with the tablets. Most people that have purchased them, seem to think that they offer a lot of bang for the buck, for the price.

So you believe that there are only 3 choices?

2 Surface 3 Pro Units with i5s (Why you chose 2 I don't even know) ($2000)
Not Purchase anything ($0 for 5-10 years you won't purchase anything)
$60 Tablet ($60)

Do you seriously not see your own flawed logic?
How are your only 3 choices $2000, $60, and $0?
What happened to $300, $400, $500, $600, etc.?

At this point, I'm just trying to understand how a poster from 2001, with 26000+ posts on this forum can only come up with those 3 selections...
How often do you actually read anandtech.com because if you even read the very site you post on you'd have more ideas...

Also just LOL at the bolded:
Thread Title: Never quite happy with my PC purchases
Proceeds to defend every single purchase he's ever made.

 

[2is]

So you believe that there are only 3 choices?

2 Surface 3 Pro Units with i5s (Why you chose 2 I don't even know) ($2000)
Not Purchase anything ($0 for 5-10 years you won't purchase anything)
$60 Tablet ($60)

Do you seriously not see your own flawed logic?
How are your only 3 choices $2000, $60, and $0?
What happened to $300, $400, $500, $600, etc.?

At this point, I'm just trying to understand how a poster from 2001, with 26000+ posts on this forum can only come up with those 3 selections...
How often do you actually read anandtech.com because if you even read the very site you post on you'd have more ideas...

Also just LOL at the bolded:
Thread Title: Never quite happy with my PC purchases
Proceeds to defend every single purchase he's ever made.

Exactly... This has been a recurring theme since the "going green" thread

-Buys crap products
-Dissatisfied with crap products
-Defends crap products
-Buys new crap products to replace older crap products

How many times has the above cycle repeated itself?

 

[VirtualLarry]

So you believe that there are only 3 choices?

2 Surface 3 Pro Units with i5s (Why you chose 2 I don't even know) ($2000)
Not Purchase anything ($0 for 5-10 years you won't purchase anything)
$60 Tablet ($60)

Do you seriously not see your own flawed logic?
How are your only 3 choices $2000, $60, and $0?
What happened to $300, $400, $500, $600, etc.?

I never stated that there were only three choices. I was simply using the Surface 3 Pro as an example of a "no compromises" solution.

You said that you wouldn't have purchased an Atom tablet or laptop, because of "compromises".

So, if you make such good decisions, why haven't you suggested a device for my needs? Instead of needlessly lambasting me? If you can't stop yourself from the endless insulting posts without a purpose, I'm going to get the mods involved.

At this point, I'm just trying to understand how a poster from 2001, with 26000+ posts on this forum can only come up with those 3 selections...
How often do you actually read anandtech.com because if you even read the very site you post on you'd have more ideas...

Also just LOL at the bolded:
Thread Title: Never quite happy with my PC purchases
Proceeds to defend every single purchase he's ever made.

I don't think that is factually correct. I regret wasting money on the laptops, when it was unnecessary.

The Foxconn NanoPCs weren't the wisest purchase either, but I mainly blame Skype's CPU bloat for turning what was once a workable solution into an unworkable one.

The tablets, are less than ideal, but they are a workable solution for my needs, and at that price, they are nearly disposable.

Let me ask this:
Do you own a smartphone?
Is it top-of-the-line?
If not, doesn't that imply that you purchased something that involved a "compromise"?

Have you ever upgraded your smartphone?
Doesn't that imply that you were dissatisfied, and therefore made a poor decision?

 

[2is]

"compromise" is a broad term, buying products that don't meet your needs or compromise in such a way that the user experience becomes painful even if it may be doable is different that compromise that includes something that isn't the absolute best, but at the same time doesn't suffer from the same issues you keep getting yourself into.

And buying "disposable" things is the exact opposite of going green. You've received tons of advise in this thread and a lot more in the "going green" thread but you continue to buy crap. Getting mods involved isn't going to help you. You're posting your horrible buying choices in a public forum. You may not like the responses but they aren't breaking any forum rules.

 

[tential]

Exactly... This has been a recurring theme since the "going green" thread

-Buys crap products
-Dissatisfied with crap products
-Defends crap products
-Buys new crap products to replace older crap products

How many times has the above cycle repeated itself?

Yes, the going green thread mindboggled me. That's how I KNEW it was Virtual Larry when this thread was posted. I didn't need to read anything other than the thread title.
My little sister was able to figure this out and she's no tech geek with 26k+ posts on here.
She identified "I want Broadwell Core-M with 4GB of Ram slim form factor under $1000".
I mean, she doesn't even follow hardware at all and told me that's what she is waiting for on her next laptop and I advised her to wait til after the holiday season when the rest of the models are available. I just don't understand how he can post so much on here and not be able to pick something other than what are essentially the new netbooks, or "Pair of surface pros" (honestly MINDBOGGLING he'd say he needs either a $60 tablet or TWO surface pros.) but yet my little sister who doesn't remotely keep up with new technology is capable of picking a great choice for her needs without my help.

I never stated that there were only three choices. I was simply using the Surface 3 Pro as an example of a "no compromises" solution.

You said that you wouldn't have purchased an Atom tablet or laptop, because of "compromises".

So, if you make such good decisions, why haven't you suggested a device for my needs? Instead of needlessly lambasting me? If you can't stop yourself from the endless insulting posts without a purpose, I'm going to get the mods involved.



I don't think that is factually correct. I regret wasting money on the laptops, when it was unnecessary.

The Foxconn NanoPCs weren't the wisest purchase either, but I mainly blame Skype's CPU bloat for turning what was once a workable solution into an unworkable one.

The tablets, are less than ideal, but they are a workable solution for my needs, and at that price, they are nearly disposable.

Let me ask this:
Do you own a smartphone?
Is it top-of-the-line?
If not, doesn't that imply that you purchased something that involved a "compromise"?

Have you ever upgraded your smartphone?
Doesn't that imply that you were dissatisfied, and therefore made a poor decision?

On this ridiculous "smartphone analogy" you're trying to make.
Just because it's not top of the line doesn't mean it's a compromise. It FITS all my NEEDS and I don't believe it to be "less than ideal." If something fits every requirement you ask of it then it's a good purchase.
My smartphone requirements?
Can I text....
Yes, that's all I do with my phone is text(maybe call). So any smartphone fits the bill.
I have a high end smartphone though gifted to me either way.

You're purchasing a $60 tablet, saying it's not ideal, and then saying "but it was only $60 so it doesn't even matter!".

You've identified your needs, then you purchase something that doesn't perfectly fit those needs. You PURPOSELY do so knowing it won't fit all those needs just because "Hey it's cheap!" Then complain later "It didn't fit my needs!"
I don't get how that's even possible to do.

 

[tential]

Well, like I tried to express... the tablet is "adequate". Just barely. If it had 4GB of RAM, and 32GB (or more) eMMC, it would be great, almost ideal.

Simple task virtual Larry.
Read this quote, then tell me if your $60 tablet purchase fits your needs?
And then tell me if there is a product available in existance in the world that may fit these needs better than your $60 tablet?

 

[VirtualLarry]

You've identified your needs, then you purchase something that doesn't perfectly fit those needs. You PURPOSELY do so knowing it won't fit all those needs just because "Hey it's cheap!" Then complain later "It didn't fit my needs!"
I don't get how that's even possible to do.

Uhm, because there IS NO "ideal" device that I want to purchase. When I described it in this thread, someone else said that was 5-10 years off. So it's entirely possible to purchase a device that meets some of my "ideal" specs, but not all of them. The fact that the tablets were $60 was icing on the cake, I would have paid $100 ea for them.

I don't know about you, but my life involves compromises all of the time, I don't live in a "computing nirvana", although I try.

Originally, I had wanted to purchase a couple of those Zotac PicoPCs, to hook up to my 24" HDTVs. They were supposed to be out in Sept. But I started thinking about it, and those only had 2GB of RAM, and 32GB eMMC, and were supposedly going to be $200. When the opportunity presented itself, to purchase two N2830 laptops, with 4GB of RAM and a 500GB HDD, for $230 (tax free weekend), I jumped at it, thinking that if they didn't work out for makeshift desktop duty, that they would at least be workable laptops, and I could possibly sell them off.

But little did I know at the time that MC was going to release their house-brand tablets, for what appears to be nearly cost or possibly under, that were most of what the PicoPC is, but for only $60 instead of $200. The compromise being 1GB RAM and 16GB eMMC, rather than 2GB and 32GB.

If I had know that those were going to exist, at that price, then I likely wouldn't have purchased the laptops at all.

I had also explored the possibility of the ECS LIVA device, but since it was only a dual-core, compared to the Zotac PicoPC's quad-core, and since you had to buy Win8.1 separate, that cost of that would have been much higher.

Oh, and if someone knows the code name "Broadwell", and can associate it with the "Core M" branding, then they are a geek.

 

[HeXen]

Me too - hence my generally sour attitude towards trying to make money in hardware.

I still have all my video cards and processors. I keep thinking after I upgrade that I should sell them and would make a decent chunk of my money back but guess I'm not very good at selling stuff.

 

[tential]

Uhm, because there IS NO "ideal" device that I want to purchase. When I described it in this thread, someone else said that was 5-10 years off. So it's entirely possible to purchase a device that meets some of my "ideal" specs, but not all of them. The fact that the tablets were $60 was icing on the cake, I would have paid $100 ea for them.

I want a processor that performs as fast as the 5930k at $200.

What's your recommendation to me?

 

[2is]

I want a processor that performs as fast as the 5930k at $200.

What's your recommendation to me?

Don't forget that you want it to only consume as much power as an ARM processor found in iPhones.