Never quite (completely) happy with my PC purchases...

[escrow4]

That is basically my strategy:

1. Larger more powerful PC for heavier "enthusiast workloads" and general work (connected to multiple monitors)

2. Smaller and more quiet secondary PC for lighter "enthusiast workloads" (connected to TV).

For #2, I am looking to compare my budget LGA 771 Xeons (and GT 630) in a refurbed Pre-built SFF PC to any new low power desktop processors coming from Intel and AMD on various metrics. At first this may seem a bit apples and oranges, but when I factor in cost the LGA 771 and GT 630 will likely be cheaper than the new Intel and AMD low power budget desktop processors. Of course, that still leaves performance, noise and power consumption as a few of the remaining metrics (certainly the new tech will do well in the last two categories).

For me PC #1 is a 5930K with 16GB of DDR4 and a 780 Ti GHz and PC #2 is a 4770 with 16GB of DDR3 and HD 4600. Both have the balls to be more or less interchangeable in terms of grunt, so either way I'm not stuck with something slow.

 

[VirtualLarry]

I've switched back to the Winbook tablet, from my Q9300 Linux Mint desktop. It's actually better than I thought. Paging to the eMMC, makes the RAM limitation not that bad as far as performance goes. I guess my primary issue with lack of RAM, was wearing out the internal eMMC pre-maturely, and having to dispose of the device when that happens.

I'm having issues with AT forums and Linux. It seems their servers lower the QoS for Linux, and Windows users get preferred treatment. At least, that's been my experience thus far.
I created a VM and installed Win7 64-bit and Waterfox, and while Firefox in Linux will hang loading pages for 5 minutes, Windows running in a VM on the same PC just breezes by loading pages.

This is the ONLY site that I have this issue with.

I've placed an inquiry in TFI, whether they use Microsoft servers and software or not. It wouldn't surprise me to find out this is the case.

 

[XavierMace]

I'm having issues with AT forums and Linux. It seems their servers lower the QoS for Linux, and Windows users get preferred treatment.

That would be a new one. And why? What would that accomplish?

 

[VirtualLarry]

That would be a new one. And why? What would that accomplish?

I don't know. All I know is, when people were complaining last time about slow page loads, they were talking about delays of 30s or so. I experienced delays of around 5min or so. But ONLY on my Linux laptop, and ONLY on this site. I switched to my Windows 7 laptop, and my page load times weren't snappy, but were reasonable (less than 30s or so).

I've since switched routers, as I thought that the problem was with my router's RF signal being "noisy", though it seemingly only affect my Linux laptop, and AT forums. I thought it had to do with the amount of round-trips and scripts this site runs.

But I've started to encounter the same thing, once I installed Linux Mint 17.1 onto one of my Q9300 rigs, in a dual-boot with Windows 7. Again, all other sites I visit are fine, just AT forums has nearly 5min timeouts. And only with Linux. Installing Windows 7 in a VirtualBox VM inside Linux, and setting the network to "bridged" with the wifi adapter, results in normal (less than 10s) page load times, while the Linux Firefox, will hang for like 5 minutes loading things. But not all of the time. Sometimes, it's ok. The problem seems to get worse at certain times of the night too, like after 9-10pm, suddenly, page load times turn to garbage. That's why I think it's somehow a QoS issue. But when the page load times turn to garbage in Linux, I keep the Win7 64-bit VM running, and I can click on whatever I want on AT forums, and they load nearly instantly.

So you tell me, the evidence points squarely at accessing AT forums with Linux, being a problem. No other site, and this site is fine with Windows 7.

The evidence is piling up.

 

[NTMBK]

I don't know. All I know is, when people were complaining last time about slow page loads, they were talking about delays of 30s or so. I experienced delays of around 5min or so. But ONLY on my Linux laptop, and ONLY on this site. I switched to my Windows 7 laptop, and my page load times weren't snappy, but were reasonable (less than 30s or so).

I've since switched routers, as I thought that the problem was with my router's RF signal being "noisy", though it seemingly only affect my Linux laptop, and AT forums. I thought it had to do with the amount of round-trips and scripts this site runs.

But I've started to encounter the same thing, once I installed Linux Mint 17.1 onto one of my Q9300 rigs, in a dual-boot with Windows 7. Again, all other sites I visit are fine, just AT forums has nearly 5min timeouts. And only with Linux. Installing Windows 7 in a VirtualBox VM inside Linux, and setting the network to "bridged" with the wifi adapter, results in normal (less than 10s) page load times, while the Linux Firefox, will hang for like 5 minutes loading things. But not all of the time. Sometimes, it's ok. The problem seems to get worse at certain times of the night too, like after 9-10pm, suddenly, page load times turn to garbage. That's why I think it's somehow a QoS issue. But when the page load times turn to garbage in Linux, I keep the Win7 64-bit VM running, and I can click on whatever I want on AT forums, and they load nearly instantly.

So you tell me, the evidence points squarely at accessing AT forums with Linux, being a problem. No other site, and this site is fine with Windows 7.

The evidence is piling up.

Sounds like some issue with either the Linux build of Firefox, or the Linux networking stack, or the Linux drivers for your laptop.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Sounds like some issue with either the Linux build of Firefox, or the Linux networking stack, or the Linux drivers for your laptop.

But... both my Ubuntu 12.04 LTS laptop, AND my Q9300 desktop running Linux Mint 17.1?

Either there's a serious bug still lingering in Linux's TCP/IP stack, or the AT forums are mis-configured (or a router along the path).

 

[NTMBK]

But... both my Ubuntu 12.04 LTS laptop, AND my Q9300 desktop running Linux Mint 17.1?

Either there's a serious bug still lingering in Linux's TCP/IP stack, or the AT forums are mis-configured (or a router along the path).

Or the Linux version of Firefox.

 

[crashtech]

Easy enough to try Chromium.

 

[dave_the_nerd]

As I'm thinking of it - it's also worth noting that only fools pay retail. When you buy a computer for $300 with a "list price" of $500, it's probably already a $350 computer, which will frustrate your attempts to flip it.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Or the Linux version of Firefox.

Nope. I installed user-agent switcher into the Linux version of Firefox, spoofed Firefox 35.0 on Windows 7, and now the forums are snappy again. Imagine that. No more multi-minute page load hangs.

 

[cbn]

But... both my Ubuntu 12.04 LTS laptop, AND my Q9300 desktop running Linux Mint 17.1?

Either there's a serious bug still lingering in Linux's TCP/IP stack, or the AT forums are mis-configured (or a router along the path).

I am browsing this forum just fine with Linux Mint 17.1 Mate using Firefox on my box with the Xeon X3323.

 

[NTMBK]

Nope. I installed user-agent switcher into the Linux version of Firefox, spoofed Firefox 35.0 on Windows 7, and now the forums are snappy again. Imagine that. No more multi-minute page load hangs.

Weeeeird. You should definitely be emailing AT's tech guys- that seems like a very bizarre bug!

 

[jonesthewine]

Buy a 4790K + 16GB of DDR3 + high quality Z97 board + nice AMD/NVIDIA GPU + great storage subsystem and I'd be shocked if you weren't satisfied.

^^...this is the truth - just built practically the same system as this for my son to use for games & school, and it is super-snappy and responsive, and should be for a few years at least.

But I have to say that in terms of 'feel' and every day use (gaming & DC excepted) the system that it replaced, which I use as a backup now for DC projects (Phenom II Deneb 945, 4GB Ram, AMD785G MB, 8.1 Pro) seems just as precise and quick.

 

[B-Riz]

This is generally a response to your desire to have a power sipping computer for your everyday tasks.

The unfortunate problem is getting hardware that is close enough to do what you want, but is not quite there.

When new stuff comes out, I like to look at the whole product stack and see what offers the most bang for the buck.

While you discount the TW801 as too expensive, the cost is worth it and it would do what you want to do and better than the TW700.

The TW800 and TW801 use the Z3735D SoC, which offers much better I/O than the Z3735G.

See below reference tables from the Intel product guide.





If you are wanting a low power quad core computer I would look at getting an embedded board that uses full length memory from the choices below and adding an SSD. Newegg has a nice selection for ~$60 and up.



Alternatively, a quad core notebook can be had using the below that should be better than the dual core sibling you have now.

 

[ninaholic37]

I'm having issues with AT forums and Linux. It seems their servers lower the QoS for Linux, and Windows users get preferred treatment. At least, that's been my experience thus far.
I created a VM and installed Win7 64-bit and Waterfox, and while Firefox in Linux will hang loading pages for 5 minutes, Windows running in a VM on the same PC just breezes by loading pages.

This is the ONLY site that I have this issue with.

I've placed an inquiry in TFI, whether they use Microsoft servers and software or not. It wouldn't surprise me to find out this is the case.

I've had a similar problem with HOTMAIL/OUTLOOK in Firefox since the beginning of time, on like 20 different computers (not using any addons/extensions). I'm pretty sure Microsoft intentionally slows down and/or delays your browser when using Firefox on their sites, so that they can claim IE is faster in their ads and to try and frustrate users to switch to IE.

 

[VirtualLarry]

I've had a similar problem with HOTMAIL/OUTLOOK in Firefox since the beginning of time, on like 20 different computers (not using any addons/extensions). I'm pretty sure Microsoft intentionally slows down and/or delays your browser when using Firefox on their sites, so that they can claim IE is faster in their ads and to try and frustrate users to switch to IE.

I agree. There were a couple of reports, IIRC, on Fatwallet around BF, that people attempting to get a deal at www.microsoftstore.com, tried unsucessfully for an hour or two to check out with Firefox, but once they switched to IE, they breezed on through. More dirty tricks.

 

[VirtualLarry]

seems like you're going out of you way to make things function outside of their intended domain

When will I be able to buy a 7/8" tablet, with USB2/3, and (micro)HDMI-out, with a 2.0Ghz quad-core, 4GB of RAM, and at least 64GB (preferably 128GB) of fast flash storage, that can function as both a tablet, and a desktop (when "docked" with charging, USB, and HDMI cables). Oh, and it should cost under $120.

Just to re-visit this topic briefly. Although it's not a tablet, my Gigabyte Brix J1900 mini-PC satisfies my other requirements.

USB2/3, HDMI-out, 2.0Ghz quad-core, 8GB of RAM, and a 2.5" 300GB SSD. And yes, the barebones unit cost less than $120.

It's not a tablet, but I still have my HP Stream 7 and my MC Winbook 7" tablets to use.

I've learned to accept and use devices the way that they were meant to be used, rather than to shoehorn them into other roles.

I still have my Q9300 (now with R7 260X 2GB), as well as both of my OCed Skylake G4400 rigs with 7950 3GB cards. I use them occasionally, as I've just discovered VSR in their newest drivers, and it works on both of my rigs. It makes my 1080P monitor work as a 1440P monitor, which is something my Intel IGP mini-PCs won't do. (Maybe they could, if Intel implemented scaling in the drivers?)

I used Sleep mode on my desktops, running Win7 64-bit. Saves power on the big powerful rigs, and I've managed to shoehorn Linux Mint 17.3 onto my Brix J1900 mini-PCs. I leave those running, since they use so little power.

So, rather than make a tablet work as a desktop, I've got mini-PCs with the specs that I wanted my ideal tablet to have, still got my tablets to use as... tablets, and I've still got the "big" ATX desktop rigs. All one big happy computing family, I guess.

 

[TeknoBug]

"never quite happy with my PC purchases"

shocking, considering what you've been buying lately. lol

Believe me I know what you're feeling, in the late 90's-early 2000's I was tight on money and kept buying low end AMD's (K6-2s, Durons, Bartons or such) and was always 2 steps behind the crowd in hardware.

 

[ozzy702]

VirtualLarry subscribes to the "quantity over quality" mindset so it's no wonder that vast seas of low end builds don't satisfy. With how fast computers are these days it's a whole lot harder to find a machine with a CPU that isn't fast enough for most people than to find one that works well. I mean, even a $50 Celeron 1840 feels snappy in most scenarios.

It's one of the main reasons why I always try to push for at least an i3 when I build people computers or they ask me what specs to look for. You can upgrade CPU, RAM, Storage, GPU down the road if an i3 isn't fast enough, but for most people it's great.

 

[dave_the_nerd]

VL - I think you're literally addicted to shopping (in a "needs some SSRIs or something" kind of way.)

 

[Sheep221]

VirtualLarry subscribes to the "quantity over quality" mindset so it's no wonder that vast seas of low end builds don't satisfy. With how fast computers are these days it's a whole lot harder to find a machine with a CPU that isn't fast enough for most people than to find one that works well. I mean, even a $50 Celeron 1840 feels snappy in most scenarios.

It's one of the main reasons why I always try to push for at least an i3 when I build people computers or they ask me what specs to look for. You can upgrade CPU, RAM, Storage, GPU down the road if an i3 isn't fast enough, but for most people it's great.

I noticed that as well, just look at his sig, he uses low end stuff good for reading mail, for desktop use and then complains it's not good. I mean his G4400 rig seems fine, but probably rest of his hardware is bad.
Don't buy low end junk, you are being ripped off of your money and of course, your time.

 

[Azuma Hazuki]

Yeah I keep telling him this :/ I have to buy the same crap he does (and have not had the money for anything new in 8 years...) but at least know how to squeeze every last little bit of power out of it with the right OS and tweaks. He just sounds like money burns a hole in his wallet and he's gotta spend it even if what he spends it on is junk.

I hate it when people "play poor," dammit.

 

[jhu]

When will I be able to buy a 7/8" tablet, with USB2/3, and (micro)HDMI-out, with a 2.0Ghz quad-core, 4GB of RAM, and at least 64GB (preferably 128GB) of fast flash storage, that can function as both a tablet, and a desktop (when "docked" with charging, USB, and HDMI cables). Oh, and it should cost under $120.

That would be Surface Pro, except for the price. Although you can probably get a Surface Pro 1 for pretty cheap these days.

 

[Beer4Me]

VL - I think you're literally addicted to shopping (in a "needs some SSRIs or something" kind of way.)

Gonna have to agree with this statement just based on pure observation of his posting habits in ATF. VL, you should likely seek professional assistance for your addiction, granted most of the stuff you buy is categorically "junk" or "value-orientated". The fact that you continue to seek out this "junk" is why you need help. You're basically the PC enthusiast equivalent of a hoarder.

 

[techne]

I have three desktops at home. I need the best computer I can afford, and I'm still happy with my two years old i7-4771 with 32GB RAM.

My wife does not need nothing fancy, only a good mainstream machine.

Finally, there's an HTPC that we share. By design, the HTPC is a very weak machine (Bobcat). It's there only to watch movies and some occasional file sharing.

So, three desktops: one strong, one mainstream, one weak. This scheme works beautifully for us. And we're both happy.

VL - I think you're literally addicted to shopping

Is that true? I thought he assemble desktops for a living, which is, by the way, a fun way to make money and help people to fulfill their needs.

But if I was mistaken (and you're really addicted), there's nothing wrong if you ask for some help. Sorry if I'm being a bit personal here. I see you as a good person and just want to help if I can.