Network Optimization: WiFi Analyzer for best channel range

[tami]

Honestly, it sounds like if you have existing network at all, they don't work "properly," or at least that's how they designed it to work.

Are you saying my network is designed to not work? Probably right now Will have to forego the Lumas. But I'm nervous the TP-Links won't give off enough WiFi on their own. Are they designed to be that powerful since they're running half duplex and all?

 

[JackMDS]

Personally I do not care about all of the Tech BS that is based on Marketing.

When dealing with Tech I do my own research.

Unlike regular wire related technology, Wireless is grossly affected by the enviroment.

One can "See" two totally identical setting (hardware and enviroment) in one would work better than the other because there is No electronic noise in it. Electronic noise is not a simple affair to control in Home enviroment, there is a need for real pro tools for it. Wireless phones and most Laptops are not the ones. Here you can see an example - https://www.acrylicwifi.com/en/blog/signal-to-noise-ratio-access-point-location-coverage-area/

My first functional account with Wireless Electronic use was 45 tears ago. I started with the Military systems and later switched to systems centering on Medical related Technology.

There is Nothing out there that trumps the WIFI based on Main Wireless Router with cables to center spots in the enviroment and installing Access Points (or Wireless Router configured as an Access Point) at the end of the CAT6 run.

I rather spend time figuring out how to conceal lay CAT6 even when it can not be put in the wall (molding are very good for it), rather than rush and buy stuff that is based on a mix compromise Wireless Technology cashing on the ignorance of the customers.

Currently I use Mid price Asus Wireless Routers for main Router and cable connected Access point.

In home enviroment Compromise can be done when WIFI has to be extended to spots that do not need Hi bandwidth signal (like trying Extender or and Poweline).

If professional installation is needed (currently) the ubiquity system is a reasonable solution.

https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_i_3_3?url=search-alias=aps&field-keywords=ubiquiti&sprefix=ubi,aps,179&crid=ZQ62FX2NBTOO

BTW - when ever I have to decide on any tech that involve installation and configuration I look for a User guide/Installation pdf. If I do not find one I do not buy. If I do find a manual, I read and see what I am into for parasitical purpose.

 

[tami]

Thanks Jack.

So that actually is a nice foray into me just doing this (thanks for the suggestion) : https://blog.ostermiller.org/configuring-second-router-wifi-access-point-using-tomato-shibby/ - which I ended up doing with my ASUS that's sitting in my closet on a wired connection. I guess it works. It strengthens the signal and doesn't interfere with the current network setup since it resides on a 10.10.10.x network now.

 

[tami]

Well, scratch that. I did it too soon. Now my wired computer connected to that router is getting an APIPA IP. Windows can't identify the network.

 

[tami]

So, in case anyone wants another side challenge to tackle, it won't let me save an IP on the 10.10.10.x network. As soon as I do that, the router bricks and I have to hard reset it. I've put it back on 10.10.11.x now and it's working (it also worked at the default 192.168.1.x).

 

[Ketchup]

Is the Luma still running? it's DHCP server may be blocking you from stepping in on the 10.10.10 network.

 

[tami]

In theory I'd agree, @Ketchup, but we're talking about a wired connection here, not a wireless one. The Ethernet connection directly to the router isn't working. Wireless is fine (it's latching onto the other primary network).

Remember, this is my second router, the ASUS N66U, which I'd like to use to extend my wireless capabilities from my Netgear N7000. Plugging into the N66U on and configuring Tomato to run 10.10.10.x network brings me to a 169.254.x.x IP. I can use 192.168.x.x or 10.10.11.x on that wired connection, but not 10.10.10.x. Wireless connectivity is hitting the primary router (the N7000), not the N66U AP (since that has no connectivity at all and appears to be bricked at that point).

 

[Ketchup]

Ah, thanks for clarifying. So you are trying to get the Asus on the same IP range as the Luma? Are you running the ASUS N66U as DHCP server duties for that IP range or just as a network extender?

 

[tami]

No, let's keep Luma out of the equation. I want the ASUS on the same network range as the Netgear, so 10.10.10.x. (Luma uses 192.168.55.x.) I want ASUS to operate as a network extender, correct.

 

[Ketchup]

Ok. So I am not really sure why you are trying to set it manually. If looks like all you have to do is go into admin, select repeater mode, and pick the network you want it to share (the Netgear, which it should see if it's in range).

 

[tami]

How do you just set repeater mode? All of the tutorials have these instructions and they brick my product. (The link above is different, but the concept is the same.) https://learntomato.com/setup-wireless-repeater-wds-bridge-tomato/

 

[Ketchup]

Are you running the default OS or somehing different? I haven't played with tomato, so perhaps someone else can help you out here, as I don't want to be pushing you in the wrong direction.

 

[tami]

Tomato is basically the same regardless of type. They just have different skins and designs. The concept is the same. It just isn't working. As soon as I configure the repeater router on the 10.10.10 network, it stops working. You have to do several things for it to work. See the links I shared for more info.

 

[tami]

btw, reading this more, it seems DD-WRT is better equipped to deal with this issue, but I am a Tomato fan 4life, so I'll have to try that secondary tutorial and try another IP in the AM. Maybe it'll work this time.

 

[tami]

Question for you networking experts: right now, with my Netgear N700 (my main router), the range is specified as 10.10.10.10-10.10.10.200. As mentioned in an earlier comment, my N66U doesn't respond well to the 10.10.10.200. It bricks and I have to hard reset.

Would I have issues moving around my home with the AP switching if I move the N66U (assuming it even works, which I haven't tried yet) to 10.10.10.201? (Right now, it's at 10.10.11.x but again, I want to set this up as a repeater. I just don't need/want bricking.)

 

[mv2devnull]

the range is specified

The "range" of IP addresses that the DHCP server hands out dynamically to the clients?
The clients do receive a "network prefix" or "netmask" too. What is it?

IP address + prefix/mask tells the true extent of the subnet.

The N700 does have an IP address in the 10.* network too. That is not in the range, is it?

The N66U is used "just as an access point", not as router. Do you have to set its IP settings manually, or does it act as a DHCP client? If set manually, it should not be in the range, but still in the same subnet. If DHCP, then it does get address from the range.

 

[tami]

@mv2devnull Yes, that's in the DHCP server. Netmask is 255.255.255.0.

I manually set the N7000 to be in the 10.10.10.x range. I haven't yet configured the N66U properly. Its settings were set manually based on those tutorials I shared before (see this for example). The thing is, those tutorials specify IP addresses within the DHCP server of the main router and it seems to work. When I do the IP addresses within the DHCP server of the main router, I brick my router and can't even get a wired connection.

I think I understand the issue here though. My second router is connected by ethernet to a switch that is connected to the main router. The example articles I referenced must have routers on WiFi only. I suspect my situation is a bit different to theirs.

 

[mv2devnull]

Netmask 255.255.255.0 means same as prefix 24. They both mean (with IP in 10.10.10.*) that
* "address of the network" is 10.10.10.0
* "broadcast address" is 10.10.10.255
* first valid IP address is 10.10.10.1
* last valid address is 10.10.10.254

You would manually set the LAN address of N700 to be 10.10.10.1, netmask 255.255.255.0, DHCP enabled

You would manually set the LAN address of N66U to be 10.10.10.2, netmask 255.255.255.0, static DNS 10.10.10.1, DHCP disabled
The N66U is connected to the switch via its LAN-port?

The guides to read should be about "Set Tomato to act as only Access Point".

 

[tami]

Yes @mv2devnull - if you see the links I shared, that's exactly what they are.

Unfortunately, though, it doesn't seem to work. The wired Ethernet connection simply says "Unidentified network" after spending a long time trying to identify it. I don't get WiFi as far as I can tell, but I'm not 100% certain - right now my machine is wirelessly connected to the network with the 10.10.10.1 gateway (so the Netgear, not the Asus).

This is weird. Maybe user error, but I'm doing everything the guides say.

I tried 10.10.10.2 (within DHCP) and 10.10.10.201 (outside the specified DHCP range) and still, no go. And yes, the default gateway is 10.10.10.1.

Right now the only way I can get access to my router is to hard reset it and reconfigure/resume on 192.168.1.1.

 

[tami]

Ah got it. I hadn't moved the wire from the WAN to the LAN port. That seems to have done the trick. Hopefully I'll have better coverage now. Still working on the TP Links and Luma is offline. I definitely see more dead zones.

 

[tami]

Update: I haven't given up on this thread. I am still working on finding the most optimal network setup.

Right now I have my Netgear R7000 as the main router and an ASUS N66U as a wireless access point only. I also purchased some TP-Link RE200s as extenders but the throughput was miserable and I kept losing internet connectivity despite these devices having an IP address and being pingable (unfortunately, they don't have a ssh option for me to actually see if they can ping to the outside Internet and it seems that once I unplug them, my Internet is stronger). I also bought some RE305s but those reduced the speed (the RE200s had 50mbps down whereas the RE305s were about 1mbps to 8mbps on a good day).

Despite buying even more RE200s (not yet received) to possibly help fill other dead zones that may be the fault of an old home, I'm thinking I might want to try something completely different.

I'm thinking of the Ubiquiti Networks UAP-AC-LITE. Do I need to get wired Ethernet into every single AP that I install? I do see the POE on the device so I'm trying to verify how these are set up. This is a bit daunting and I'm really not so keen on having this installed (Instead of, say, getting Ethernet into three or these Unifi APs which will be costly from the hiring of an electrician perspective, I might as well just get a single wired internet connection into one of the dead zones in the house and get another N66U to cover the area).

Thoughts?

 

[tami]

Where did John Sed's response go?

Using both 5Ghz and 2.4 GHz, btw. And the first post mentions WiFi Analyzer which I am using as well. Also using WiFi Roaming Fix since I'm losing signal pretty much everywhere. The signal drops in areas with -40 dBm which is why it's confusing.

 

[JackMDS]

Roaming is usually do not supported by Entry Level Wireless hardware/software.

Most cooperate Networks support roaming with RADIUS server - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RADIUS

Some Entry Level vendors claim to support Roaming, but many times it does not work well.

If Roaming is really important to you you have to use ""Tomatoes in Salads"". . Then be prepared to spend big money on Wireless network Hardware that was proved to do countable Roaming.

 

[tami]

Yeah, not a fan of this setup.

The Lumas were good, but they just forced me to operate on a 192.168.55.x. network. The TP-Link experience has so far been miserable. My regular Internet has never gone out this much... and in my kitchen, even though I have the "perfect" signal according to TP-Link, I'm getting speeds of 1Mbps down and 0.5 Mbps up. That's horrific. The whole point of getting a solid network within the home is to make sure I can easily set up wireless surveillance (via Nest) outdoors and the kitchen is at one of those corners. If I can't get a stable network inside, how's that to happen outside?

I'm considering the Google WiFi setup now. Question is if I need 6 (I used 5 Lumas) or if I need 3. One has to connect to the modem which eliminates one so I really will only have 2. It's a 2 story home and a lot of wide space, but a lot of wall interference, so I'm not entirely sure what to do.

The Ubiquiti stuff looks good but it also looks like I'd have to hire an electrician to get them set up and the cost seems a bit much for all of that inclusive.

Should I go with the Google WiFi, using the same SSID as the existing network? (That's really what I want.)

 

[tami]

All right, well I ended up going with Google WiFi. Overall, the connection range is much farther, which is great. That's actually what I needed too.

However, I have a few challenges.

1) My main router is serving DHCP, as is Google WiFi, and there's no overlap in terms of the address pool. Thoughts and suggestions about whether this is a good or a bad idea? I have so many settings on my Netgear R7000 that I really do not want to port over to Google WiFi's setup.

2) I also have, in addition to Google WiFi hubs, two Asus N66Us that are serving as extenders as well. (Again, my house is old. I actually get weak signal notifications via Google WiFi even in decent locations so this was the only way.) I find, and I don't think this has ANYTHING to do with Google WiFi (since I had no issues initially, but then actually tried a setup with modem > Google WiFi > Netgear R7000 and it was a nightmare; I lost DNS for some odd reason, despite using Google WiFi's IP address as the gateway in addition to the DNS server with 8.8.8.8), that the N66U closest to my phone drops causes my phone to lose WiFi connectivity--giving my phone an error of "Connected, no Internet" every so often. I should note that this N66U is a static IP that goes to 10.10.10.2 which is routed through 10.10.10.1 which is acting as the DHCP server (so my IP address is on the 10.10.10.x range). I've ssh'd in with my laptop, also on WiFi, and tried to ping Google at the same time I'm seeing these drops and nothing seems out of the ordinary. I'm not really sure why WiFi is dropping on my phone (Android 8.1, and my husband reports the same on his iPhone 8).

I've also noticed that these Asus extenders are not on the Device List on my main router. The Google WiFi is, though, and stays there all the time. Is there a particular reason for this? When I ping the router via SSH from the Asus extenders, then I see it again as expected. Is this anything to be worried about?

I'm not sure if one thing has to do with the other; after all, I can still ping Google.com and the DNS and gateway are 10.10.10.1. Things were working okay till I introduced Google WiFi; the first day everything was fine and the second day after I failed at the modem > Google WiFi > router and switched back to modem > router > Google WiFi, I started seeing this issue. Google WiFi is serving IPs on the 10.10.11.x range (whereas my router is serving IPs on the 10.10.10.x range), so it's not a DHCP conflict with the devices.

The Asus devices and Google WiFi are all assigned static IPs. The 2 Asus devices are 10.10.10.2 and 10.10.10.3 and the Google WiFi is on the local network as 10.10.10.4. The SSID is the same.

The only thing I can possibly see as an issue is that the Asus, which is literally about 15 feet away from me behind a wooden door, is occasionally a lower dBm than the closest Google device, which is um, much farther away (a different floor, in fact. From where I sit, we're talking about if you're standing directly under me on the floor below, it'd be almost exactly 25 feet). Maybe because the dBm is variable (we're talking the Asus having -54 dBm and the Google having -51 dBm or vice versa), there's a constant fight for which DHCP server the phone is going to use (re: question 1). However, whenever I see the "Connected, no Internet" warning on my phone, I note that it's always connected to the Asus (with a 10.10.10.x IP address), and it works seconds later (usually I disconnect and reconnect and it's still got the same IP address and all. I now have a Tasker task to do this manually, but I shouldn't have to...)

Clearly I have the world's most annoying home WiFi setup. But I'm still looking for guidance. Hope I didn't lose you guys in the interim