Neil Armstrong Threatens to Sue Barbershop

GTaudiophile

Lifer
Oct 24, 2000
29,767
33
81
CINCINNATI, Ohio (AP) -- Apollo moon mission astronaut Neil Armstrong has threatened to sue a barbershop owner who collected Armstrong's hair after a trim and sold it for $3,000.

Armstrong, the first man to walk on the moon, used to go to Marx's Barber Shop in Lebanon about once a month for a cut. That stopped when he learned that owner Marx Sizemore had collected his hair clippings from the floor and sold them in May 2004 to a collector.

"I didn't deny it or anything," Sizemore said. "I told him I did it."

Sizemore said Armstrong asked him to try to retrieve the hair, but the buyer did not want to give it back.

"I called Neil back and told him that," Sizemore said. "Then I got this letter from his lawyer."

The letter contends that the sale violated an Ohio law designed to protect the rights of famous people. It threatens legal action if Sizemore does not return the hair or contribute his profit to charity and asks Sizemore to pay Armstrong's legal expenses.

Sizemore, who said he already spent most of the $3,000 on bills, told the lawyer who sent the letter, Ross Wales of Cincinnati, that he will not pay. Wales did not return a call seeking comment.

Sizemore said he sold the hair to an agent for John Reznikoff, a Westport, Connecticut, collector listed by Guinness World Records as having the largest collection of hair from historical celebrities. The collection, insured for $1 million, includes hair from Abraham Lincoln, Marilyn Monroe, Albert Einstein and Napoleon.

Armstrong commanded NASA's Apollo 11 mission to the moon in 1969. He left the space program in 1971 to teach aeronautical engineering at the University of Cincinnati. He seldom appears at public functions or grants interviews.

 

BlueWeasel

Lifer
Jun 2, 2000
15,944
475
126
Wow, that raises the question...... "Who owns the hair that the barber sweeps up off the floor - you or him?" :)
 

dxkj

Lifer
Feb 17, 2001
11,772
2
81
Originally posted by: BlueWeasel
Wow, that raises the question...... "Who owns the hair that the barber sweeps up off the floor - you or him?" :)

My question is, will this big collector be able to clone all of these people :)
 

Vette73

Lifer
Jul 5, 2000
21,503
9
0
I would think the barber owns it once you leave the place. Kinda like trash put out to the curb is public.
 

So

Lifer
Jul 2, 2001
25,923
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81
What a douchebag (they barber, not Armstrong)..

"well...I told him after I did it, so why was he mad? :confused:"

:|
 

Tom

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
13,293
1
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Originally posted by: Marlin1975
I would think the barber owns it once you leave the place. Kinda like trash put out to the curb is public.


You have a legal basis for saying that ?

Because I suspect you are wrong, legally speaking.

 
Jan 18, 2001
14,465
1
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Originally posted by: Marlin1975
I would think the barber owns it once you leave the place. Kinda like trash put out to the curb is public.

I wonder... people sell their hair all the time to wig makers... I wouldn't be surprised if the barber is free and clear on this one.

Armstrong is being an asshole... he doesn't want the proceeds, he just doesn't want the barber to have it.

 

labgeek

Platinum Member
Jan 20, 2002
2,163
0
0
Originally posted by: GTaudiophile

The letter contends that the sale violated an Ohio law designed to protect the rights of famous people.

Wonder if it was this law...

And yes, I noticed where the link was from... no need to comment.
 

Tom

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
13,293
1
76
Originally posted by: HomeBrewerDude
Originally posted by: Marlin1975
I would think the barber owns it once you leave the place. Kinda like trash put out to the curb is public.

I wonder... people sell their hair all the time to wig makers... I wouldn't be surprised if the barber is free and clear on this one.

Armstrong is being an asshole... he doesn't want the proceeds, he just doesn't want the barber to have it.


The barber didn't sell HIS hair, he sold someone else's hair.

I actually gave some hair to charity once, but I signed something giving the barber permission to do that with it, which to me implies the barber didn't own my hair.
 

codeyf

Lifer
Sep 6, 2000
11,854
3
81
Originally posted by: HomeBrewerDude

Armstrong is being an asshole... he doesn't want the proceeds, he just doesn't want the barber to have it.

 

Jzero

Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
18,834
1
0
Originally posted by: Tom
Originally posted by: Marlin1975
I would think the barber owns it once you leave the place. Kinda like trash put out to the curb is public.


You have a legal basis for saying that ?

Because I suspect you are wrong, legally speaking.

I don't know about hair in a barber shop, but he is correct about the garbage. Of course the laws vary between states and cities, but in general trash left curbside is "up for grabs," so to speak.
 

Tom

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
13,293
1
76
Originally posted by: Jzero
Originally posted by: Tom
Originally posted by: Marlin1975
I would think the barber owns it once you leave the place. Kinda like trash put out to the curb is public.


You have a legal basis for saying that ?

Because I suspect you are wrong, legally speaking.

I don't know about hair in a barber shop, but he is correct about the garbage. Of course the laws vary between states and cities, but in general trash left curbside is "up for grabs," so to speak.


So you are saying the police don't need a warrant to search someone's trash ?

I don't think you are right. And the basis for requiring a warrant, if I'm right, is that it is that person's property.
 

Jzero

Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
18,834
1
0
Originally posted by: Tom
So you are saying the police don't need a warrant to search someone's trash ?

I don't think you are right. And the basis for requiring a warrant, if I'm right, is that it is that person's property.

That is exactly where I'm headed.. When you leave trash curbside, you are relinquishing your expectation of privacy. In fact it is your expectation in doing so that SOMEONE will come and take it away...maybe a cop, maybe your neighbor, maybe the garbage man.

 
Jan 18, 2001
14,465
1
0
Originally posted by: Tom
Originally posted by: Jzero
Originally posted by: Tom
Originally posted by: Marlin1975
I would think the barber owns it once you leave the place. Kinda like trash put out to the curb is public.


You have a legal basis for saying that ?

Because I suspect you are wrong, legally speaking.

I don't know about hair in a barber shop, but he is correct about the garbage. Of course the laws vary between states and cities, but in general trash left curbside is "up for grabs," so to speak.


So you are saying the police don't need a warrant to search someone's trash ?

I don't think you are right. And the basis for requiring a warrant, if I'm right, is that it is that person's property.

I thought that trash became trash when ever the trash is transferred into the truck. Up until that point it remains personal property.

Hair is different though, IMO. Part of the service of a barber is removal/disposal of the hair clippings. That may not transfer ownership though... we need a lawyer stat.



 

BigJ

Lifer
Nov 18, 2001
21,330
1
81
Originally posted by: Jzero
Originally posted by: Tom
So you are saying the police don't need a warrant to search someone's trash ?

I don't think you are right. And the basis for requiring a warrant, if I'm right, is that it is that person's property.

That is exactly where I'm headed.. When you leave trash curbside, you are relinquishing your expectation of privacy. In fact it is your expectation in doing so that SOMEONE will come and take it away...maybe a cop, maybe your neighbor, maybe the garbage man.

Yep, you are exactly right about this. Once you put your trash on the curb, it's available to anyone who wants it to retrieve whatever they want, whether its that couch you threw out, or that garbage bag full of un-shredded documents.
 

sonambulo

Diamond Member
Feb 22, 2004
4,777
1
0
listen guys, he just wants to make sure none clonez him and lands in the basement too.
 

OulOat

Diamond Member
Aug 8, 2002
5,769
0
0
I don't see a problem with Armstrong's lawsuit. All the barber has to do is to contribute the profit to charity and pay for Armstrong's legal fees.
 

Alex

Diamond Member
Oct 26, 1999
6,995
0
0
Originally posted by: dxkj
Originally posted by: BlueWeasel
Wow, that raises the question...... "Who owns the hair that the barber sweeps up off the floor - you or him?" :)

My question is, will this big collector be able to clone all of these people :)

hahaha nice! i hope not.... :roll:
 

Jzero

Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
18,834
1
0
Originally posted by: HomeBrewerDude
Hair is different though, IMO. Part of the service of a barber is removal/disposal of the hair clippings. That may not transfer ownership though... we need a lawyer stat.

Yeah, I don't know how I feel about the hair. I think the reasonable expectation is that the barber is not selling your hair. OTOH, where does the barber put the hair? In the trash....and then he puts the trash out for pickup....
 

Tom

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
13,293
1
76
Originally posted by: Jzero
Originally posted by: Tom
So you are saying the police don't need a warrant to search someone's trash ?

I don't think you are right. And the basis for requiring a warrant, if I'm right, is that it is that person's property.

That is exactly where I'm headed.. When you leave trash curbside, you are relinquishing your expectation of privacy. In fact it is your expectation in doing so that SOMEONE will come and take it away...maybe a cop, maybe your neighbor, maybe the garbage man.


After doing some research via google, I've discovered that the issue is very complicated, and in some ways disturbing to me. There are states, New Hampshire for example, where our Constitutional rights are upheld, however in a rather remarkable decision involving a guy named Greenwood, the US Supreme gave away our right to our own property, without actually even considering what they were doing, at least as far as I can tell reading their decision.

In the interest of law enforcement expediency, they completely and utterly ignore the Constitution's FUNDAMENTAL principle of the right to own property. (now I can understand why they think they have the power to appoint the President, if they don't like the way the Constitution does it)

Owning property doesn't just mean owning it. It means having the right to acquire it, to use it, and to dispose of it.

Apparently the Supreme court doesn't think anyone has the right to dispose of their own property how they see fit, but rather all we can do is magically relinquish our right to own property, by where we place it in our yard.


I do not agree with your description of what I or most people expect when they put something in their garbage. I expect it to be DISPOSED of, ie, burned, buried, etc.,not turned over to the public.

Essentially the Supreme court says because a dog might rip open a trash bag, people lose their right to own property.
 

Miramonti

Lifer
Aug 26, 2000
28,653
100
106
The Ohio law isn't applicable because he was getting his haircuts in the middleeast.


;)
 

BigJ

Lifer
Nov 18, 2001
21,330
1
81
Originally posted by: Tom
Originally posted by: Jzero
Originally posted by: Tom
So you are saying the police don't need a warrant to search someone's trash ?

I don't think you are right. And the basis for requiring a warrant, if I'm right, is that it is that person's property.

That is exactly where I'm headed.. When you leave trash curbside, you are relinquishing your expectation of privacy. In fact it is your expectation in doing so that SOMEONE will come and take it away...maybe a cop, maybe your neighbor, maybe the garbage man.


After doing some research via google, I've discovered that the issue is very complicated, and in some ways disturbing to me. There are states, New Hampshire for example, where our Constitutional rights are upheld, however in a rather remarkable decision involving a guy named Greenwood, the US Supreme gave away our right to our own property, without actually even considering what they were doing, at least as far as I can tell reading their decision.

In the interest of law enforcement expediency, they completely and utterly ignore the Constitution's FUNDAMENTAL principle of the right to own property. (now I can understand why they think they have the power to appoint the President, if they don't like the way the Constitution does it)

Owning property doesn't just mean owning it. It means having the right to acquire it, to use it, and to dispose of it.

Apparently the Supreme court doesn't think anyone has the right to dispose of their own property how they see fit, but rather all we can do is magically relinquish our right to own property, by where we place it in our yard.


I do not agree with your description of what I or most people expect when they put something in their garbage. I expect it to be DISPOSED of, ie, burned, buried, etc.,not turned over to the public.

Essentially the Supreme court says because a dog might rip open a trash bag, people lose their right to own property.

If you have stuff that you need to be disposed of in a complete and thorough manner, why would you just put it out on the curb for 12 hours a day, 2 days a week??

Would you leave a valuable piece of property on your street curb for 2 nights out of the week if someone was going to swing by in the morning to pick it up?

If it bothers you that much, you need to get a private dumpster, or simply close the window of time that your garbage gets left out unattended.

You have every right to dispose of your property the way you see fit. And if you leave your property out in the public domain to be picked up over a window of 12 hours, I'd think it'd be naive to think that there's not a possibility of somebody going through it. Whether it's because you threw out a nice couch I can use in my basement, or it's because a PI wants to dig up dirt on you.
 

Tom

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
13,293
1
76
I won't requote everything but-

I'm not concerned about my trash, I'm concerned about the trashing of the Constitution.