Neil Armstrong Threatens to Sue Barbershop

[BigJ]

Originally posted by: Tom
I won't requote everything but-

I'm not concerned about my trash, I'm concerned about the trashing of the Constitution.

I guess I really just don't see how waste disposal systems threaten the integrity of the Constiution, even after rereading what you said about property above.

 

[waggy]

Originally posted by: Tom
I won't requote everything but-

I'm not concerned about my trash, I'm concerned about the trashing of the Constitution.

There is a diffrence between them going into you house and and the garbage that you left out on the curb to be picked up.

I have no problems with them being able to search my trash if i leave it out on the curb. I have problems with them comeing up onto my property to search it (keep garbage cans in garage myself).

IF you are worried about it put the stuff out before they come. i do not see this as a trashing of the constitution. all you need to do is take a little more effort.

 

[Jzero]

Originally posted by: Tom
In the interest of law enforcement expediency, they completely and utterly ignore the Constitution's FUNDAMENTAL principle of the right to own property. (now I can understand why they think they have the power to appoint the President, if they don't like the way the Constitution does it)

You are way off-base. You leave an old refrigerator out on the curb to be picked up by the garbage man. Someone drives by, sees the fridge and picks it up. Is it theft? If it's not theft if some guy on the street takes it, it's not theft if a cop takes it.

You can't have it both ways.

Apparently the Supreme court doesn't think anyone has the right to dispose of their own property how they see fit, but rather all we can do is magically relinquish our right to own property, by where we place it in our yard.

The watchword has always been whether you have a "reasonable expectation of privacy." You have a reasonable expectation of privacy regarding objects in a garage. You cannot have a reasonable expectation of privacy regarding objects sitting on the street.

I do not agree with your description of what I or most people expect when they put something in their garbage. I expect it to be DISPOSED of, ie, burned, buried, etc.,not turned over to the public.

You can speak for yourself, but I do not think you speak for most people. If you want to ensure that your garbage is disposed of securely, it is up to you to do so.

 

[KarenMarie]

he should be ashamed of himself.

:|

 

[feelingshorter]

hair collector? HAHAHHAHAHA

 

[waggy]

Originally posted by: Jzero

Originally posted by: Tom
In the interest of law enforcement expediency, they completely and utterly ignore the Constitution's FUNDAMENTAL principle of the right to own property. (now I can understand why they think they have the power to appoint the President, if they don't like the way the Constitution does it)

You are way off-base. You leave an old refrigerator out on the curb to be picked up by the garbage man. Someone drives by, sees the fridge and picks it up. Is it theft? If it's not theft if some guy on the street takes it, it's not theft if a cop takes it.

You can't have it both ways.

Apparently the Supreme court doesn't think anyone has the right to dispose of their own property how they see fit, but rather all we can do is magically relinquish our right to own property, by where we place it in our yard.

The watchword has always been whether you have a "reasonable expectation of privacy." You have a reasonable expectation of privacy regarding objects in a garage. You cannot have a reasonable expectation of privacy regarding objects sitting on the street.

I do not agree with your description of what I or most people expect when they put something in their garbage. I expect it to be DISPOSED of, ie, burned, buried, etc.,not turned over to the public.

You can speak for yourself, but I do not think you speak for most people. If you want to ensure that your garbage is disposed of securely, it is up to you to do so.

Right.

Every tip i have that says if you do not want something seen/read by anyone els then
1) shred it.
2) burn shredding

Anything like credit card apps or anything with private infomation i have. i do this with. when the shredding basket is full i just light it up. If it is so important that i do not want anyone else to get it i make sure they can't.

 

[Tom]

Originally posted by: BigJ

Originally posted by: Tom
I won't requote everything but-

I'm not concerned about my trash, I'm concerned about the trashing of the Constitution.

I guess I really just don't see how waste disposal systems threaten the integrity of the Constiution, even after rereading what you said about property above.

The articles below reflects some of my concerns..

Article about New Hampshire decision

 

[Tom]

Originally posted by: Jzero

Originally posted by: Tom
In the interest of law enforcement expediency, they completely and utterly ignore the Constitution's FUNDAMENTAL principle of the right to own property. (now I can understand why they think they have the power to appoint the President, if they don't like the way the Constitution does it)

You are way off-base. You leave an old refrigerator out on the curb to be picked up by the garbage man. Someone drives by, sees the fridge and picks it up. Is it theft? If it's not theft if some guy on the street takes it, it's not theft if a cop takes it.

You can't have it both ways.

Apparently the Supreme court doesn't think anyone has the right to dispose of their own property how they see fit, but rather all we can do is magically relinquish our right to own property, by where we place it in our yard.

The watchword has always been whether you have a "reasonable expectation of privacy." You have a reasonable expectation of privacy regarding objects in a garage. You cannot have a reasonable expectation of privacy regarding objects sitting on the street.

I do not agree with your description of what I or most people expect when they put something in their garbage. I expect it to be DISPOSED of, ie, burned, buried, etc.,not turned over to the public.

You can speak for yourself, but I do not think you speak for most people. If you want to ensure that your garbage is disposed of securely, it is up to you to do so.

It would be theft if anyone takes the refrigerator other than who I intended to take it. So I don't know what you mean about "both ways" ?

And as far as credit cards, etc. you are confusing expediency and practicality, where I agree with you that it's prudent to be careful how it's disposed of, with a legal point I am asserting about when do I lose control of my property, legally speaking ?

I am saying that I should never lose my property rights other than in the very few cases that the Constitution allows for.

And I see as part of the difficulty in the Greenwood case, is it is purportedly about privacy, not property rights per se, but the Supreme Court seems to have ignored the relationship between property and privacy.

For instance, if I have a big sign in front of my house that says my social security number is 111-111-1111, then I can't claim that a policeman reading it is violating my right to privacy. But that doesn't mean the sign doesn't belong to me !

The Greenwood decision invents a new means of losing property rights, for the sake of allowing police searches.

 

[BigJ]

Originally posted by: Tom

Originally posted by: BigJ

Originally posted by: Tom
I won't requote everything but-

I'm not concerned about my trash, I'm concerned about the trashing of the Constitution.

I guess I really just don't see how waste disposal systems threaten the integrity of the Constiution, even after rereading what you said about property above.

The articles below reflects some of my concerns..

Article about New Hampshire decision

NH would actually be going against what I believe in, in that they're setting up regulations and laws that dissaude people from taking personal responsibility for their own actions.

I stand by what I said before. If these prescriptions, personal letters, or bills are so important to you, simply shred them. Unless a person is adamant about finding information about you (which the internet makes available readily enough, not to mention private investigators and public records), then a simple cross-cut shredder is going to stop anyone browsing through your garbage from finding something relevant.

I would not expect a brand-new $500 lawn mower to be safe if I put it out on my curb for 12 hours a day, or even a basketball that someone might take thats on the street. It's your responsibility to dispose of and guard your personal belongings, especially when you place them in public domain.

 

[waggy]

Originally posted by: Tom

It would be theft if anyone takes the refrigerator other than who I intended to take it. So I don't know what you mean about "both ways" ?

And as far as credit cards, etc. you are confusing expediency and practicality, where I agree with you that it's prudent to be careful how it's disposed of, with a legal point I am asserting about when do I lose control of my property, legally speaking ?

I am saying that I should never lose my property rights other than in the very few cases that the Constitution allows for.

And I see as part of the difficulty in the Greenwood case, is it is purportedly about privacy, not property rights per se, but the Supreme Court seems to have ignored the relationship between property and privacy.

For instance, if I have a big sign in front of my house that says my social security number is 111-111-1111, then I can't claim that a policeman reading it is violating my right to privacy. But that doesn't mean the sign doesn't belong to me !

The Greenwood decision invents a new means of losing property rights, for the sake of allowing police searches.

So if you leave a something out for the garbage to take and someone else takes it they should be arrested for thieft? that fvcking dumb. really really dumb.

so you would rather have that in the ground wasting away then someone grab it and make use of it? ok..yeah thats a good idea!

 

[Jzero]

Originally posted by: Tom
It would be theft if anyone takes the refrigerator other than who I intended to take it. So I don't know what you mean about "both ways" ?

"Both ways" meaning the vast majority of people do not consider it theft, or wrong in any way, if they leave trash by the curb and someone else who wants it picks it up, therefore they have no right to complain that their rights have been abridged should that someone else happen to be a law enforcement officer.

You are in the minority with this viewpoint. Until today, 1 June 2005, I have never once found a person who actually cared whether the garbage man or a trashpicker picked up their trash as long as it was gone from their curb by the time they got home.

So, do you file a police report anytime you find that someone other than the garbage man took something from your trash?

What if the garbage man takes the fridge and keeps it for his own personal use?

 

[Tom]

Originally posted by: waggy

Originally posted by: Tom

It would be theft if anyone takes the refrigerator other than who I intended to take it. So I don't know what you mean about "both ways" ?

And as far as credit cards, etc. you are confusing expediency and practicality, where I agree with you that it's prudent to be careful how it's disposed of, with a legal point I am asserting about when do I lose control of my property, legally speaking ?

I am saying that I should never lose my property rights other than in the very few cases that the Constitution allows for.

And I see as part of the difficulty in the Greenwood case, is it is purportedly about privacy, not property rights per se, but the Supreme Court seems to have ignored the relationship between property and privacy.

For instance, if I have a big sign in front of my house that says my social security number is 111-111-1111, then I can't claim that a policeman reading it is violating my right to privacy. But that doesn't mean the sign doesn't belong to me !

The Greenwood decision invents a new means of losing property rights, for the sake of allowing police searches.

So if you leave a something out for the garbage to take and someone else takes it they should be arrested for thieft? that fvcking dumb. really really dumb.

so you would rather have that in the ground wasting away then someone grab it and make use of it? ok..yeah thats a good idea!

Well, I don't watch tv much, so i guess it should be ok for someone to come in my apartment and put it to good use ?

What I am talking about here are legal rights. You really want to give up your right to own something based on it's location ?

If UPS leaves a package for me outside, you think it doesn't belong to me, depending on where they put it ?

If someone takes my Sunday newspaper because I didn't pick it up as soon as it was delivered, you want the Constitution to say that the paper I paid for actually belongs to the public, because of where it was ?

 

[BigJ]

Originally posted by: Tom

Originally posted by: waggy

Originally posted by: Tom

It would be theft if anyone takes the refrigerator other than who I intended to take it. So I don't know what you mean about "both ways" ?

And as far as credit cards, etc. you are confusing expediency and practicality, where I agree with you that it's prudent to be careful how it's disposed of, with a legal point I am asserting about when do I lose control of my property, legally speaking ?

I am saying that I should never lose my property rights other than in the very few cases that the Constitution allows for.

And I see as part of the difficulty in the Greenwood case, is it is purportedly about privacy, not property rights per se, but the Supreme Court seems to have ignored the relationship between property and privacy.

For instance, if I have a big sign in front of my house that says my social security number is 111-111-1111, then I can't claim that a policeman reading it is violating my right to privacy. But that doesn't mean the sign doesn't belong to me !

The Greenwood decision invents a new means of losing property rights, for the sake of allowing police searches.

So if you leave a something out for the garbage to take and someone else takes it they should be arrested for thieft? that fvcking dumb. really really dumb.

so you would rather have that in the ground wasting away then someone grab it and make use of it? ok..yeah thats a good idea!

Well, I don't watch tv much, so i guess it should be ok for someone to come in my apartment and put it to good use ?

What I am talking about here are legal rights. You really want to give up your right to own something based on it's location ?

If UPS leaves a package for me outside, you think it doesn't belong to me, depending on where they put it ?

If someone takes my Sunday newspaper because I didn't pick it up as soon as it was delivered, you want the Constitution to say that the paper I paid for actually belongs to the public, because of where it was ?

Once you decide a piece of property is garbage, you are declaring you no longer want to own said property. And by putting a piece of garbage in a place that is public domain (IE the curb), you are relinquishing your rights to that "property" (read: garbage).

It's as simple as that.

You comparing it to people going into your house or onto your property, and stealing a piece of property that you currently own (and want to keep owning), is absolutely ridiculous.

 

[Tom]

Originally posted by: Jzero

Originally posted by: Tom
It would be theft if anyone takes the refrigerator other than who I intended to take it. So I don't know what you mean about "both ways" ?

"Both ways" meaning the vast majority of people do not consider it theft, or wrong in any way, if they leave trash by the curb and someone else who wants it picks it up, therefore they have no right to complain that their rights have been abridged should that someone else happen to be a law enforcement officer.

You are in the minority with this viewpoint. Until today, 1 June 2005, I have never once found a person who actually cared whether the garbage man or a trashpicker picked up their trash as long as it was gone from their curb by the time they got home.

So, do you file a police report anytime you find that someone other than the garbage man took something from your trash?

What if the garbage man takes the fridge and keeps it for his own personal use?

You say I'm in the minority, based on what evidence ? People you have met ?

Come on, if you are reasonably intelligent, you know that doesn't mean much. Out of all the people you know, how many have you talked about this issue with ?

And you are turning what I'm saying on it's head. There is a big difference between not caring if someone takes some of your trash, and the Supreme Court saying that it doesn't matter if you care or not, because it's now the law that you put things in certain places, and YOU DON'T OWN them anymore.

 

[Jzero]

Originally posted by: Tom
Well, I don't watch tv much, so i guess it should be ok for someone to come in my apartment and put it to good use ?

When did we make the logical leap between CURBSIDE GARBAGE and OBJECTS INSIDE YOUR HOME?

You really want to give up your right to own something based on it's location ?

If you did not want to throw it away....why did you throw it away?

If UPS leaves a package for me outside, you think it doesn't belong to me, depending on where they put it ?

If someone takes my Sunday newspaper because I didn't pick it up as soon as it was delivered, you want the Constitution to say that the paper I paid for actually belongs to the public, because of where it was ?

Try to be reasonable. Do you have a problem in your neighborhood with the UPS man leaving packages next to your curbside trash? Or do you get trash pickup right from your doorstep?

 

[skace]

Soooooo who wants to buy this Neil Armstrong wig?

 

[Jzero]

Originally posted by: Tom
And you are turning what I'm saying on it's head. There is a big difference between not caring if someone takes some of your trash, and the Supreme Court saying that it doesn't matter if you care or not, because it's now the law that you put things in certain places, and YOU DON'T OWN them anymore.

The Supreme Court is simply codifying an existing practice that if you put something on the trash, you have done so BECAUSE you do not wish to own them anymore. If you do not want to relinquish your property rights to an item, do not place that item on the trash. The line has got to be drawn somewhere.

Why does a law have to be enacted to protect those who are too lazy to use shredders and incinerators?

You never did say whether you are filing police reports when you find this happening...

You say I'm in the minority, based on what evidence ? People you have met ?

Give me a break. Fine, then. Show me an example of a case where a civilian has been charged with theft for taking an item from curbside trash.

 

[HomeBrewerDude]

there is some serious ownage going on in this thread...

:beer:

 

[waggy]

Originally posted by: Tom

Originally posted by: waggy

Originally posted by: Tom

It would be theft if anyone takes the refrigerator other than who I intended to take it. So I don't know what you mean about "both ways" ?

And as far as credit cards, etc. you are confusing expediency and practicality, where I agree with you that it's prudent to be careful how it's disposed of, with a legal point I am asserting about when do I lose control of my property, legally speaking ?

I am saying that I should never lose my property rights other than in the very few cases that the Constitution allows for.

And I see as part of the difficulty in the Greenwood case, is it is purportedly about privacy, not property rights per se, but the Supreme Court seems to have ignored the relationship between property and privacy.

For instance, if I have a big sign in front of my house that says my social security number is 111-111-1111, then I can't claim that a policeman reading it is violating my right to privacy. But that doesn't mean the sign doesn't belong to me !

The Greenwood decision invents a new means of losing property rights, for the sake of allowing police searches.

So if you leave a something out for the garbage to take and someone else takes it they should be arrested for thieft? that fvcking dumb. really really dumb.

so you would rather have that in the ground wasting away then someone grab it and make use of it? ok..yeah thats a good idea!

Well, I don't watch tv much, so i guess it should be ok for someone to come in my apartment and put it to good use ?

What I am talking about here are legal rights. You really want to give up your right to own something based on it's location ?

If UPS leaves a package for me outside, you think it doesn't belong to me, depending on where they put it ?

If someone takes my Sunday newspaper because I didn't pick it up as soon as it was delivered, you want the Constitution to say that the paper I paid for actually belongs to the public, because of where it was ?

My goodness. there is a big diffrence between something you do not want (garbage) and a TV INSIDE the house.

IF you do not want anyone else ot have the a old fridge do NOT put it out on the curb. get a truck and send take it to the dump. By putting it on the curb you are giving up all rights to the item. Its that simple.

Every time i get a item by UPS, FedEX etc they leave it by my door. Now i don't know about you but i do not leave my garbage near my door. Everyone knows that it is something i want just as Everyone knows that the garbage i put out on the curb is something I DO NOT WANT.

 

[dabuddha]

Originally posted by: HomeBrewerDude

Originally posted by: Marlin1975
I would think the barber owns it once you leave the place. Kinda like trash put out to the curb is public.

I wonder... people sell their hair all the time to wig makers... I wouldn't be surprised if the barber is free and clear on this one.

Armstrong is being an asshole... he doesn't want the proceeds, he just doesn't want the barber to have it.

Armstrong is an asshole for wanting the profit the barber made to go to charity?

 

[Tom]

Originally posted by: Jzero

Originally posted by: Tom
Well, I don't watch tv much, so i guess it should be ok for someone to come in my apartment and put it to good use ?

When did we make the logical leap between CURBSIDE GARBAGE and OBJECTS INSIDE YOUR HOME?

You really want to give up your right to own something based on it's location ?

If you did not want to throw it away....why did you throw it away?

If UPS leaves a package for me outside, you think it doesn't belong to me, depending on where they put it ?

If someone takes my Sunday newspaper because I didn't pick it up as soon as it was delivered, you want the Constitution to say that the paper I paid for actually belongs to the public, because of where it was ?

Try to be reasonable. Do you have a problem in your neighborhood with the UPS man leaving packages next to your curbside trash? Or do you get trash pickup right from your doorstep?

For the 2nd time, I am not concerned with the particulars of how my own trash is currently being dealt with..

I am talking about a Supreme Court decision that creates out of thin air, a new condition on the right to own property. And the right to own property is FUNDAMENTAL to our Constitution and way of life.

And based on my reading of their decision, they did not even consider what they were doing.

And I do not like losing my Constitutional rights, sorry if that bothers you. There are certainly lots of people who care less about the Constitution than they do about the trains running on time, I'm just not one of them.

 

[BigJ]

Originally posted by: Tom

For the 2nd time, I am not concerned with the particulars of how my own trash is currently being dealt with..

I am talking about a Supreme Court decision that creates out of thin air, a new condition on the right to own property. And the right to own property is FUNDAMENTAL to our Constitution and way of life.

And based on my reading of their decision, they did not even consider what they were doing.

And I do not like losing my Constitutional rights, sorry if that bothers you. There are certainly lots of people who care less about the Constitution than they do about the trains running on time, I'm just not one of them.

From my post above:

Once you decide a piece of property is garbage, you are declaring you no longer want to own said property. And by putting a piece of garbage in a place that is public domain (IE the curb), you are relinquishing your rights to that "property" (read: garbage).

It's as simple as that.

They are not creating a new condition to own property. By placing garbage (read: property you no longer want to own) on the curb (public domain) you forfeit all rights to said garbage unless you bring it back onto your own property.

 

[HomeBrewerDude]

Do you have a link to the supreme court ruling you are questioning? Furthermore, what part of your constitutional rights are violated when "you discard personal property and someone else takes that property which formerly belonged to you?"

 

[dabuddha]

Originally posted by: waggy

Originally posted by: Tom

Originally posted by: waggy

Originally posted by: Tom

It would be theft if anyone takes the refrigerator other than who I intended to take it. So I don't know what you mean about "both ways" ?

And as far as credit cards, etc. you are confusing expediency and practicality, where I agree with you that it's prudent to be careful how it's disposed of, with a legal point I am asserting about when do I lose control of my property, legally speaking ?

I am saying that I should never lose my property rights other than in the very few cases that the Constitution allows for.

And I see as part of the difficulty in the Greenwood case, is it is purportedly about privacy, not property rights per se, but the Supreme Court seems to have ignored the relationship between property and privacy.

For instance, if I have a big sign in front of my house that says my social security number is 111-111-1111, then I can't claim that a policeman reading it is violating my right to privacy. But that doesn't mean the sign doesn't belong to me !

The Greenwood decision invents a new means of losing property rights, for the sake of allowing police searches.

So if you leave a something out for the garbage to take and someone else takes it they should be arrested for thieft? that fvcking dumb. really really dumb.

so you would rather have that in the ground wasting away then someone grab it and make use of it? ok..yeah thats a good idea!

Well, I don't watch tv much, so i guess it should be ok for someone to come in my apartment and put it to good use ?

What I am talking about here are legal rights. You really want to give up your right to own something based on it's location ?

If UPS leaves a package for me outside, you think it doesn't belong to me, depending on where they put it ?

If someone takes my Sunday newspaper because I didn't pick it up as soon as it was delivered, you want the Constitution to say that the paper I paid for actually belongs to the public, because of where it was ?

My goodness. there is a big diffrence between something you do not want (garbage) and a TV INSIDE the house.

IF you do not want anyone else ot have the a old fridge do NOT put it out on the curb. get a truck and send take it to the dump. By putting it on the curb you are giving up all rights to the item. Its that simple.

Every time i get a item by UPS, FedEX etc they leave it by my door. Now i don't know about you but i do not leave my garbage near my door. Everyone knows that it is something i want just as Everyone knows that the garbage i put out on the curb is something I DO NOT WANT.

It's common sense really. When I get my hair cut by my barber, I expect him to throw my hair away. I do NOT expect him to take my hair and sell it to someone for his own personal profit.

 

[labgeek]

Originally posted by: waggy
IF you do not want anyone else ot have the a old fridge do NOT put it out on the curb. get a truck and send take it to the dump. By putting it on the curb you are giving up all rights to the item. Its that simple.

The dump where I used to live would let you take pretty much whatever you liked from it... So did it transfer ownership at some point? If so, when?