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apoppin

Lifer
Mar 9, 2000
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alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: gsaldivar
How the hell is separating discussions into forums by topic CENSORSHIP?????

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Depends on POV, I guess if you want to proselytize . . .

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Mill

Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
28,558
3
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I see as much flaming by Christians as I do by the Atheists. You are both guilty, and that is why I rarely say anything in a religious thread. POC being the exemption because there were WAY TOO MANY FVCKING threads about that.

Anyway. Jesus loves his cocaine.
 

mechBgon

Super Moderator<br>Elite Member
Oct 31, 1999
30,699
1
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It is always interesting to see the word "religion" used where the word "faith" would be so much more appropriate. If such a forum is created, let it at least be properly named "Faith & Philosophy," not "Religion & Philosophy."


Preach the Gospel at all times. Use words if necessary. -St. Francis of Assisi

Smart guy, eh? ;) *goes back to helping the newbies with their new computers*
 

mastertech01

Moderator Emeritus Elite Member
Nov 13, 1999
11,875
282
126
Ive seem many many threads over the years where the athiests START religious threads just to bait the belivers so they can attack them. I dont think P&N regulars wish to see them there either. Consider that a great many posters on this forum havent aged or experience enough of life to discuss ANYTHING with a great deal of maturity. Hell look how long the "PICS" threads flooded the forum and no one cared how offensive they were to others. The mods had to finally clean up that mess. So it wouldnt matter where you post or what the subject matter is. The POC threads will fade away eventually on thier own, just try to act like an adult and stay out of them if you dont want to hear what they have to say. IMHO

If I recall right there is an old saying something like, dont argue with a fool, he will just bring you down to his level and beat you up with experience.
 

apoppin

Lifer
Mar 9, 2000
34,890
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alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: Mill
I see as much flaming by Christians as I do by the Atheists. You are both guilty, and that is why I rarely say anything in a religious thread. POC being the exemption because there were WAY TOO MANY FVCKING threads about that.

I agree that both 'sides' are (more-or-less) equally guilty . . . that has been addressed in most of my posts in this thread . . .

My suggestion just gives the two sides their OWN sandbox to play in . . . and OT can continue to be . . . well, OT. ;)

 

Buz2b

Diamond Member
Jun 2, 2001
4,619
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If I recall right there is an old saying something like, dont argue with a fool, he will just bring you down to his level and beat you up with experience.
God, (no "pun" or jab intended) but I love that saying. Nonetheless, I will attempt to educate and/or communicate.

apoppin, If I am missing your point then you need to clarify it and justify your stance. You want to "REstore" order to a forum that is basically built on dissorder?!?! LOL! :D C'mon man, where's the "order" in ATOT?!?!? As far as "Religion" needing it's own forum because it is a "special topic," well so is atheism. Feminism and just about every other "ism" you can think of. That doesn't mean that we should essentially ban them to "their own" forum, does it? BTW, what's the name of the Forum.............OFF TOPIC!!! Duhhh!! Are you saying that it's "ok" to be posted in OFF TOPIC as long as it is not religious in nature? Heaven forbid (please pardon the pun again) if someone wants to disagree with a post in a thread and they happen to be a (thanks Mechbgon) person of FAITH!! apoppin, Are you saying that ATOT should be further segregrated (limited) to only those topics that you or others approve?!?!

My suggestion just gives the two sides their OWN sandbox to play in . . . and OT can continue to be . . . well, OT.
I guess that's OK as long as it is YOUR kind of sandbox. I think the point is made. Where did you lose the idea of "OT"?
 

Buz2b

Diamond Member
Jun 2, 2001
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Originally posted by: Buz2b
If I recall right there is an old saying something like, dont argue with a fool, he will just bring you down to his level and beat you up with experience.
God, (no "pun" or jab intended) but I love that saying. Nonetheless, I will attempt to educate and/or communicate.

apoppin, If I am missing your point then you need to clarify it and justify your stance. You want to "REstore" order to a forum that is basically built on dissorder?!?! LOL! :D C'mon man, where's the "order" in ATOT?!?!? As far as "Religion" needing it's own forum because it is a "special topic," well so is atheism. Feminism and just about every other "ism" you can think of. That doesn't mean that we should essentially ban them to "their own" forum, does it? BTW, what's the name of the Forum.............OFF TOPIC!!! Duhhh!! Are you saying that it's "ok" to be posted in OFF TOPIC as long as it is not religious in nature? Heaven forbid (please pardon the pun again) if someone wants to disagree with a post in a thread and they happen to be a (thanks Mechbgon) person of FAITH!! apoppin, Are you saying that ATOT should be further segregrated (limited) to only those topics that you or others approve?!?!

Edited ater seeing a response:
My suggestion just gives the two sides their OWN sandbox to play in . . . and OT can continue to be . . . well, OT.
I guess that's OK as long as it is YOUR kind of sandbox. I think the point is made. Where did you lose the idea of "OT"?

BTW, I continue to be open minded on this. Can you show me/link to a thread or threads that were "hijacked" by the overly religious zealots? I'm not trying to set you up either; I would look with an open mind and try to see if this has indeed happened or continues to happen. If indeed it has happened I would also lead the charge to warn and/or ban the people that attempt to do so. I continue to think that this would be the correct way to deal with this issue; make the people follow the rules. However, if they are simply interjecting religious insights on a topic, I don't think you have a leg to stand on. I look forward to your response.
 

apoppin

Lifer
Mar 9, 2000
34,890
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Buz2b, out of the hundreds of posts you make, only about 1% is in OT . . . I really don't think you spend enough time there . . . IF you did, you wouldn't need me to point out the hijacked threads; evidently others do agree with me.
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Now it depends on whether the mods are tired of this crap enough to ask the admin to move religious threads to it's own forum. If it continues as it is, i will simply stop visiting OT . . .


 

allisolm

Elite Member
Administrator
Jan 2, 2001
24,992
4,337
136
politics got so "out of hand" that it was impossible to ignore . . . just like religion is getting NOW.

I just looked and, out of the first 100 threads, 4 were religious. Doesn't seem to be out of hand. I didn't see any of the remaining threads that looked like they had been hijacked. BTW there were 8 threads about cars in the same 100 threads.
 

Red Dawn

Elite Member
Jun 4, 2001
57,530
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FYI, OT was originally created because the Jesus Freaks were flooding the General Forum with their religious drivel. It would be kind of ironic if those types of thread were banished to another forum. Of course Politics use to be one of the main topics on OT before all the AOL Chatroom Kiddies and Neffs flooded it around 2000 and Politicalo Topics were given their own forum.
 

new2AMD

Diamond Member
Jul 18, 2001
5,312
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1 thing I have learned about OT is that whatever the hot topic in society is, the threads start pouring in about it. Once the movie The Passion of Christ dies down people will move on to the next thing. The movie has stirred up conversations and given people an opening to dump their beliefs on others. Give it time, I bet it goes away.

Just my opinion.
 

ThaGrandCow

Diamond Member
Dec 27, 2001
7,956
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Originally posted by: new2AMD
1 thing I have learned about OT is that whatever the hot topic in society is, the threads start pouring in about it. Once the movie The Passion of Christ dies down people will move on to the next thing. The movie has stirred up conversations and given people an opening to dump their beliefs on others. Give it time, I bet it goes away.

Just my opinion.

EXACTLY what I was just about to post. Religion is the big thing in the forums now due to the publicity PotC is getting. Wait a few weeks and we'll be back to the normal few religious threads every few weeks. Just using movies as an example: How many threads were there when Matrix Revolutions came out? I can remember times when the first page was 1/4 threads about it. Also RotK and all it's glorious threads. I can think of many other movies that caused many threads to be made, and that's just movies. I haven't even thought about the hundreds of other things that can seemingly take over OT for a few weeks at a time.

As for hijacking, people will always find ways to hijack threads. If they can't do it with religion then they'll do it with some other comment.
 

Sunner

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
11,641
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Will threads about Linux vs Windows, nVidia vs ATi, Amiga vs Atari, and so forth also belong in this forum?
 

apoppin

Lifer
Mar 9, 2000
34,890
1
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alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: Sunner
Will threads about Linux vs Windows, nVidia vs ATi, Amiga vs Atari, and so forth also belong in this forum?
No,

only Intel vs. AMD. :p

The others you mentioned belong in Politics.
rolleye.gif

(well, maybe ati vs nVidia, 2)

:D

Seriously, IS there ANYone who'd like P&N moved BACK into OT?

i doubt it and i think ot is a better place for that move. . . .

I say TRY also moving religion . . . i BET you'll LIKE OT (and for those inclined to 'religious' discussions, will also like their new 'home').

OT will 'free-up' and the new 'religion' forum will become more a place for SERIOUS discussions.

I am NOT for banning all references to ones' personal belief system in OT - just moving religious TOPICS to their own forum . . .



edit:
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
FYI, OT was originally created because the Jesus Freaks were flooding the General Forum with their religious drivel. It would be kind of ironic if those types of thread were banished to another forum. Of course Politics use to be one of the main topics on OT before all the AOL Chatroom Kiddies and Neffs flooded it around 2000 and Politicalo Topics were given their own forum.
hehe, he said "ironic" ;)

:D

I like irony. ;)

(even though it feels like years, politics was moved out of OT - last year - when the Iraq invasion started)
 

Buz2b

Diamond Member
Jun 2, 2001
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Originally posted by: apoppin
Buz2b, out of the hundreds of posts you make, only about 1% is in OT . . . I really don't think you spend enough time there . . . IF you did, you wouldn't need me to point out the hijacked threads; evidently others do agree with me.
rolleye.gif


Now it depends on whether the mods are tired of this crap enough to ask the admin to move religious threads to it's own forum. If it continues as it is, i will simply stop visiting OT . . .

Read my posts again; one or the first things I mentioned was that I DON'T spend much time there. That doesn't disqualify me from presenting an opinion, now does it?? Or would you have those that don't do a lot of posting here in Forum Issues automatically 'MOVED to another forum.
BTW, to date, NO ONE has linked or pointed to ANY thread that was "hijacked" by religion. Hmmmmmm, seems to be a trend here.
As to the last sentence of your post, don't let the door hit you in the rear. If you feel that strongly against religion perhaps you should look elsewhere. This is called a "community" forum; as in everyone has the opportunity to speak. Even you and I!!:p


Will threads about Linux vs Windows, nVidia vs ATi, Amiga vs Atari, and so forth also belong in this forum?
An excellent point. Where do we stop? OT is an area that is there so that people can talk about just about anything they want to. If you start segregating different groups you will have more forums than Fusetalk can handle. What about a Heterosexual Forum, a Gay Forum, an Over 40 Forum, because I don't like one or more of those groups posting in my threads. Will you also forbid someone that has a sig file that mentions religion, banned from posting in OT?
I really have tried to keep an open mind about this but the more this goes on themore it angers me. The very folks that are trying to convince me of this logic are actually doing theopposite with their arguments and rhetoric.
 

apoppin

Lifer
Mar 9, 2000
34,890
1
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alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: Buz2b
Originally posted by: apoppin
Buz2b, out of the hundreds of posts you make, only about 1% is in OT . . . I really don't think you spend enough time there . . . IF you did, you wouldn't need me to point out the hijacked threads; evidently others do agree with me.
rolleye.gif


Now it depends on whether the mods are tired of this crap enough to ask the admin to move religious threads to it's own forum. If it continues as it is, i will simply stop visiting OT . . .

Read my posts again; one or the first things I mentioned was that I DON'T spend much time there. That doesn't disqualify me from presenting an opinion, now does it?? Or would you have those that don't do a lot of posting here in Forum Issues automatically 'MOVED to another forum.
BTW, to date, NO ONE has linked or pointed to ANY thread that was "hijacked" by religion. Hmmmmmm, seems to be a trend here.
As to the last sentence of your post, don't let the door hit you in the rear. If you feel that strongly against religion perhaps you should look elsewhere. This is called a "community" forum; as in everyone has the opportunity to speak. Even you and I!!:p


Will threads about Linux vs Windows, nVidia vs ATi, Amiga vs Atari, and so forth also belong in this forum?
An excellent point. Where do we stop? OT is an area that is there so that people can talk about just about anything they want to. If you start segregating different groups you will have more forums than Fusetalk can handle. What about a Heterosexual Forum, a Gay Forum, an Over 40 Forum, because I don't like one or more of those groups posting in my threads. Will you also forbid someone that has a sig file that mentions religion, banned from posting in OT?
I really have tried to keep an open mind about this but the more this goes on themore it angers me. The very folks that are trying to convince me of this logic are actually doing theopposite with their arguments and rhetoric.
I was simply pointing out that you are not in OT very much YET appear to have a STRONG position on this . . . WHY?

You are also exaggerating what I am asking for and setting up YOUR OWN targets to shoot down . . . reread some of my posts - your qustions are mostly ALREADY covered. :p

I really dont care to convice you - especially you who is NOT in OT . . . I am stating MY opinion (and evidently the wishes of others). you don't agree with me . . . I have no problem with that.

I also DON'T feel strongly against religion - you OBVIOUSLY don't know me or are even familiar with my posting over the last 4 years - I simply FEEL OT WOULD BE A BETTER PLACE WITH RELIGION MOVED to its own forum.

And now I am heading to work so I won't have a chance to see your reply until tonight . . . again - WHY do you feel so strongly about leaving religion in OT? Do you think Politics should also be moved BACK into OT?

As to me making a LIST for you - it is isn't worth it for me . . . those active in OT know what I am talking about. ;)
 

Buz2b

Diamond Member
Jun 2, 2001
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And now I am heading to work so I won't have a chance to see your reply until tonight . . . again - WHY do you feel so strongly about leaving religion in OT? Do you think Politics should also be moved BACK into OT?
As to P&N, Nope, never said that and have no real opinion either way. To be brutally honest, I was unaware that it was moved to it's own forum for any special reasons. Besides, I can see the logic of moving Pollitics and News.

As to my strong feelings about this particular subject, I just have an aversion to groups, any group being unfairly singled out and told they are no longer welcome. No matter how you try to state it, that is what you are diong, even under the guise of creating their own forum or moving them to Politics. BTW, I especially think that combining Religion with Politics isn't a good move. After all, there are those that trumpet the cause of not mixing matters of church and state, don't they? Some even think it is included in the Constitution. Now, would you have Anand do something "un-Constitutional"? ;) :p

As to me making a LIST for you - it is isn't worth it for me . . . those active in OT know what I am talking about.
C.mon, that's a cop out if I ever heard one. Besides, I didn't ask for a list. I just said to link to a couple or few so that I could see where this hijacking took place. As I said (and you seem to think should limit my posting about this) I don't spend a lot of time in OT. It should be very easy for an old pro OT kind of guy like you, to do this. Again, I would stress that if someone is in reality "hijacking" a thread with Religion or religious views, then they should be pointed out to the mods. If they feel that this is akin to Thread Crapping, which is not supposed to be allowed, then the mods can do something about it. Going through the channels like this is the way things are supposed to work. Creating forums for people with views you don't agree with is not the way to deal with it.
We can go back and forth about this forever. You have your opinion and as you like to point out, some agree with you. BTW, some actually agree with mine too. Either way, it would appear that we are indeed "hijacking" this thread ourselves. Kind of ironic, isn't it? What if someone complains about us?!? Gee, they might have to create an apoppin and Buz2b forum or make us post in P&N. ;)
Seriously, unless it can be shown that some group of "religious zealots" are unfairly taking over many threads in OT (and the Mods are unwilling to do anything about it under the rules they enforce), I don't think there is anything you can say that will change my mind. It doesn't matter if I spend a little or a lot of time in OT either; AT does not restrict users from posting in selective Forums, nor does it demand we post in all of them equally. We are participants in the entire Community of Forums. It was an interesting discussion though. Hey, I even posted over in OT today too! LOL!
 

apoppin

Lifer
Mar 9, 2000
34,890
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alienbabeltech.com
thanks, Buz2b for your 'bump' and POV.

i guess we'll agree to disagee. You may consider it a 'cop out' but I have nothing further to add at this point. ;)
(wohoo - I'm off work early . . . I guess I'll head to OT and post in the religion threads. . . . ) :p

rolleye.gif


:D

 

olds

Elite Member
Mar 3, 2000
50,059
719
126
Let's put religion in Tech Support. I know I often take the Lord's name in vain when working on my PC.
;)
 

Buz2b

Diamond Member
Jun 2, 2001
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Originally posted by: oldsmoboat
Let's put religion in Tech Support. I know I often take the Lord's name in vain when working on my PC.
;)

Ya know, I promised myself I was going to wash my hands of this thread. However, one cannot be a "True AT'er" and not aknowledge a truely great post. I bow to you oldsmoboat; that was good!! Been there; done that......waaaaaaayy too many times unfortunately.
 

apoppin

Lifer
Mar 9, 2000
34,890
1
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alienbabeltech.com
Thanks oldsmoboat . . . .that was too much!

And I am washing my hands of this thread also . . . :)

(why?) - ONE thing I HAVE noticed over the last couple of days - the religious thread proliferation and flaming has mellowed out (as some of you have predicted) . . . any copy-cat 'flamebait' threads that start are either getting ignored or quickly shut down . . .

This thread has perhaps served its purpose to bring attention to the problem . . . I'll leave it in the very capable hands of the admin and mods.

Peace and aloha
(apoppin out)
 

dpm

Golden Member
Apr 24, 2002
1,513
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Originally posted by: ThaGrandCow
Originally posted by: new2AMD 1 thing I have learned about OT is that whatever the hot topic in society is, the threads start pouring in about it. Once the movie The Passion of Christ dies down people will move on to the next thing. The movie has stirred up conversations and given people an opening to dump their beliefs on others. Give it time, I bet it goes away. Just my opinion.
EXACTLY what I was just about to post. Religion is the big thing in the forums now due to the publicity PotC is getting. Wait a few weeks and we'll be back to the normal few religious threads every few weeks. Just using movies as an example: How many threads were there when Matrix Revolutions came out? I can remember times when the first page was 1/4 threads about it. Also RotK and all it's glorious threads. I can think of many other movies that caused many threads to be made, and that's just movies. I haven't even thought about the hundreds of other things that can seemingly take over OT for a few weeks at a time. As for hijacking, people will always find ways to hijack threads. If they can't do it with religion then they'll do it with some other comment.

Exactly - at least its a change from all the damn Samurai threads.

Maybe we should just have a "Movie of the week" forum... :D