Need to make a very large purchase through Newegg

[thirdlegstump]

Get 44 Dell Optiplex systems and the rest from CDW. Call your account rep and ask for a quote. Done. With Newegg you're setting yourself up for failure.

Oh and don't forget gold support plans to go with the Dells. They're pretty important.

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: JS80
I read it and I really didn't see the point of commenting on it as no one else would really care nor understand wtf we're talking about. With that said, yes I agree with your capex comment (especially considering depreciation is a non-EBITDA expense vs maintenance expense hits EBITDA), but I don't care to expand on it because no one else cares

yeah, you're right. Just trying to help others.

I do however care because because IT folks need to understand the impact of their decisions beyond the here and now and understand basic accounting.

 

[Fraggable]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: JS80
I read it and I really didn't see the point of commenting on it as no one else would really care nor understand wtf we're talking about. With that said, yes I agree with your capex comment (especially considering depreciation is a non-EBITDA expense vs maintenance expense hits EBITDA), but I don't care to expand on it because no one else cares

yeah, you're right. Just trying to help others.

I do however care because because IT folks need to understand the impact of their decisions beyond the here and now and understand basic accounting.

I don't understand what you're talking about but I know it's related to long-term expenses and short-term investments. However, I still don't see how buying PCs from major manufacturers is going to save anyone a lot of time and labor expenses. As soon as the warranty is out we're in the same boat as building them on our own. I've alreayd mentioned that CDW would build the PCs for us, and at this point ordering from Newegg isn't really an option anyway.

 

[Rogodin2]

Your FOR and position is completely different than mine-I'm a small OEM builder.

You really have to take into account the expense of building and maintaining the systems. You've gotten good advice! I don't buy too often from D&H or ASI.

Rogo

 

[SarcasticDwarf]

Originally posted by: Rogodin2
Your FOR and position is completely different than mine-I'm a small OEM builder.

You really have to take into account the expense of building and maintaining the systems. You've gotten good advice! I don't buy too often from D&H or ASI.

Rogo

Am I missing something for expenses?

OEM Custom
Higher initial cost Lower initial cost
Minimal setup time Extended setup time
You pay for labor You pay for labor
Parts covered by a single company Large number of warranties to keep track of
Likely higher failure rate Likely lower failure rate

 

[Goosemaster]

Originally posted by: Fraggable

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: JS80
I read it and I really didn't see the point of commenting on it as no one else would really care nor understand wtf we're talking about. With that said, yes I agree with your capex comment (especially considering depreciation is a non-EBITDA expense vs maintenance expense hits EBITDA), but I don't care to expand on it because no one else cares

yeah, you're right. Just trying to help others.

I do however care because because IT folks need to understand the impact of their decisions beyond the here and now and understand basic accounting.

I don't understand what you're talking about but I know it's related to long-term expenses and short-term investments. However, I still don't see how buying PCs from major manufacturers is going to save anyone a lot of time and labor expenses. As soon as the warranty is out we're in the same boat as building them on our own. I've alreayd mentioned that CDW would build the PCs for us, and at this point ordering from Newegg isn't really an option anyway.

No offense man, but that's why you are earning $13.50/hr. *











*Obviously that was out of line and I'm sorry, but you had it coming for not listening to reason.

 

[Uhtrinity]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: Uhtrinity
The systems we got were better than the systems quoted from Dell for $10k more. Less expensive doesn't always mean cheaper. And for the record our faculty raves about how reliable our network and systems are compared to the districts they had worked in before, though granted we are in our first year with new hardware.

Thanks for proving my point.

Penny wise, pound foolish.

How did I prove your point? We saved $10k vs Dell system of lower quality, I used the word cheaper in the context of lower quality ...... ie. Lower cost does not always mean lower quality.

Acer systems loaded with brand name industry standard components including gigabyte motherboards ... I will take those any day over a Dell or Compaq. And btw I did do a 3 year cost analysis. To bring these systems upto the level to run Vista we only need to add memory. If we want Areo Glass we need an inexpensive DX9 video card. In the end these upgrades are still cheaper than the Dell systems by $5k in todays costs. Those components will be cheaper in 2 - 3 years if we even decide to adopt Vista. So frankly I still don't see your point.

As someone who has worked IT for 15 years I can safely say more expensive does not always mean better.

 

[Uhtrinity]

Originally posted by: Goosemaster

Originally posted by: Fraggable

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: JS80
I read it and I really didn't see the point of commenting on it as no one else would really care nor understand wtf we're talking about. With that said, yes I agree with your capex comment (especially considering depreciation is a non-EBITDA expense vs maintenance expense hits EBITDA), but I don't care to expand on it because no one else cares

yeah, you're right. Just trying to help others.

I do however care because because IT folks need to understand the impact of their decisions beyond the here and now and understand basic accounting.

I don't understand what you're talking about but I know it's related to long-term expenses and short-term investments. However, I still don't see how buying PCs from major manufacturers is going to save anyone a lot of time and labor expenses. As soon as the warranty is out we're in the same boat as building them on our own. I've alreayd mentioned that CDW would build the PCs for us, and at this point ordering from Newegg isn't really an option anyway.

No offense man, but that's why you are earning $13.50/hr. *



*Obviously that was out of line and I'm sorry, but you had it coming for not listening to reason.

Slightly off topic, but take into consideration where he lives before you slam his wage. Not everyone in the IT field makes $40 / hr. Hell, where I live if your lucky you will make $18 / hr with 20 years experience unless you land a government job.

 

[Goosemaster]

Originally posted by: Uhtrinity

Originally posted by: Goosemaster

Originally posted by: Fraggable

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: JS80
I read it and I really didn't see the point of commenting on it as no one else would really care nor understand wtf we're talking about. With that said, yes I agree with your capex comment (especially considering depreciation is a non-EBITDA expense vs maintenance expense hits EBITDA), but I don't care to expand on it because no one else cares

yeah, you're right. Just trying to help others.

I do however care because because IT folks need to understand the impact of their decisions beyond the here and now and understand basic accounting.

I don't understand what you're talking about but I know it's related to long-term expenses and short-term investments. However, I still don't see how buying PCs from major manufacturers is going to save anyone a lot of time and labor expenses. As soon as the warranty is out we're in the same boat as building them on our own. I've alreayd mentioned that CDW would build the PCs for us, and at this point ordering from Newegg isn't really an option anyway.

No offense man, but that's why you are earning $13.50/hr. *



*Obviously that was out of line and I'm sorry, but you had it coming for not listening to reason.

Slightly off topic, but take into consideration where he lives before you slam his wage. Not everyone in the IT field makes $40 / hr. Hell, where I live if your lucky you will make $18 / hr with 20 years experience unless you land a government job.

I apologized accordingly. I just wanted to get his attention


I feel that this argument approaches that of open source, where you are free to do what you will with potentially better source (pun intended) except that as a purchaser, and as a client, you will not be face discriminating surface in your favor. If 35% of your hard drives die, for all they know, you are just some guy. Sure Seagate is awesome and such, but you will not be providing yourself with the level of accountability for any delays etc that larger manus or vendors can.

they make a living making sure it is THERE when it needs to be or sooner.
that shouldn't be your job.

your job is the network and maintaining its efficiency, not preventing it from falling apart.

anytime you take away from that is not a good thing.

 

[Crazee]

I have one word for you - LEASE. Talk to Dell Financial services or some other reputable leasing group. (FYI if you use Dell Financial you don't have to buy Dells).

They can set up a master lease agreement where you have the option to purchase the items at the end of a 3 year lease. At the end of that time, you can have them repurchase the systems back from you and if they are in good shape, you can get a decent price for them since Dell can resell them in Central/South America.

I am an IT Director with a college and after we did the numbers we found that the net amount we would pay would actually be slightly less than if we bought the machines. Then we could turn around and refresh every 3 years and have an evergreen environment. We can also lease printers, switches, servers, etc if we want to and if they make sense.

This would allow you to spread the payment over 3 years and not have it hit all at once.

 

[Ameesh]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: thirdlegstump
Logistically speaking, you're going to save yourself a major hassle by going with CDW. That's what they're there for and if you cannot see the value, you should not be in the position making purchase decisions of this calibre - albeit a small scale purchase. Newegg is for kids building PCs, not for corporate or government accounts. Otherwise tell CDW that Newegg is beating their prices by at least $10K and negotiate with them.

This is so true it needs to be repeated.

Saving capital is not a good option. Saving expense is.

Quick numbers....

Saving 5K on capital = 1.67 K per year given a 3 year deprecation.

THAT'S A MEASELY 1.67K dollars PER YEAR.

PC tech at 40 bucks an hour building systems = 80K+benfits PER YEAR.

1.67K < 100K YEAR OVER YEAR!

the point is valid even though no PC tech makes $80K + benefits working for a school.

 

[Fraggable]

Originally posted by: Goosemaster

Originally posted by: Uhtrinity

Originally posted by: Goosemaster

Originally posted by: Fraggable

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: JS80
I read it and I really didn't see the point of commenting on it as no one else would really care nor understand wtf we're talking about. With that said, yes I agree with your capex comment (especially considering depreciation is a non-EBITDA expense vs maintenance expense hits EBITDA), but I don't care to expand on it because no one else cares

yeah, you're right. Just trying to help others.

I do however care because because IT folks need to understand the impact of their decisions beyond the here and now and understand basic accounting.

I don't understand what you're talking about but I know it's related to long-term expenses and short-term investments. However, I still don't see how buying PCs from major manufacturers is going to save anyone a lot of time and labor expenses. As soon as the warranty is out we're in the same boat as building them on our own. I've alreayd mentioned that CDW would build the PCs for us, and at this point ordering from Newegg isn't really an option anyway.

No offense man, but that's why you are earning $13.50/hr. *



*Obviously that was out of line and I'm sorry, but you had it coming for not listening to reason.

Slightly off topic, but take into consideration where he lives before you slam his wage. Not everyone in the IT field makes $40 / hr. Hell, where I live if your lucky you will make $18 / hr with 20 years experience unless you land a government job.

I apologized accordingly. I just wanted to get his attention


I feel that this argument approaches that of open source, where you are free to do what you will with potentially better source (pun intended) except that as a purchaser, and as a client, you will not be face discriminating surface in your favor. If 35% of your hard drives die, for all they know, you are just some guy. Sure Seagate is awesome and such, but you will not be providing yourself with the level of accountability for any delays etc that larger manus or vendors can.

they make a living making sure it is THERE when it needs to be or sooner.
that shouldn't be your job.

your job is the network and maintaining its efficiency, not preventing it from falling apart.

anytime you take away from that is not a good thing.

You got my attention but nothing you said really has much to do with my reality. You're acting like I'm not ever going to get a raise until I figure this out, but you're wrong. I interviewed for a position that pays $20 an hour last week and fully expect a job offer in a few days. The fact is that the Cincinnati area apparently doesn't pay nearly as much as whatever area you live in. I have an Associates' degree, I don't expect $40 an hour. I'm not expected to know all those things. My supervisor usually does the long-term analysis and has worked for Fidelity Investments and one of the Bells as an accountant for 25 years, not to mention working here for 5. I think she can handle it without needing me to know it all too.

You're right, my job is maintaining the network, not so much repairing PCs. To that end I buy the best, most reliable components I can afford and expect better reliability from the system. So far my custom builds have had 0 failures in the last 2 years while the various Dells and Ultras we have are dropping PSUs, hard drives and fans like there's no tomorrow.

 

[Kelemvor]

In case you didn't see it, YGPM

 

[JEDIYoda]

Originally posted by: ForumMaster
that's cause Newegg isn't meant for such a thing. for large purchases, dell, cde or other OEM vendors are meant. they also have better warrenty.

ahh the negativity........wanna bet NewEgg will work with himn if he sdirectly contacts them instead of posting in this forum??

 

[pontifex]

Originally posted by: Fraggable


You're right, my job is maintaining the network, not so much repairing PCs. To that end I buy the best, most reliable components I can afford and expect better reliability from the system. So far my custom builds have had 0 failures in the last 2 years while the various Dells and Ultras we have are dropping PSUs, hard drives and fans like there's no tomorrow.

but didn't you say you were going to buy pre-built acers?

how is that really any different than getting dells?

 

[skace]

Oh man, oh man this looks ugly. I didn't read all of the thread because I really didn't want to know what kind of networking equipment is going into this.

 

[skace]

Originally posted by: hanoverphist
[i use CDW for some things as well, but they know im a reseller so i get to bargain with them a lot. if i show them a quote from insight.com for 15% less than they are giving me, they will beat the price by 2% usually. just takes some talking usually. you being the end customer is probably why they wont give you better pricing.

as for schools not having cash, your budget exists when you have the money. spending next years budget over the summer before its appropriated isnt the smartest way to go about it. if they want you to finish the project before school starts, they need to come up with the cash ahead of time, or at leat have a line of credit worked out. many of the cities i work with have line of credit with major supply houses, and can get up to 3 months delayed. they pay for that option tho.

Insight is great.

 

[JDMnAR1]

OP - I assume you built your Dell systems off of the Dell Ohio Educational Store - Contract # 533195-2 and then contacte your Dell rep with that quote to see what they will really sell it for? If not, do so before you commit to a purchase anywhere. I used to do purchasing for a state agency with a Dell contract, and 99.9% of the time I was quoted much better prices via a rep than the prices presented online for identical equipment.

 

[AMCRambler]

Salary/year with benefits=$40,000
per hour $20 = ($40,000/52 weeks)/40 hours

225 computers to build at 30 minutes a pc comes out to 112.5 hours for assembly.
Cost of assembly 112.5 hours x $20= $2250

$5000 saved - $2250 for assembly = $2750 savings

As for the tech support piece assuming 4% failure rate that's 9 pc's a year.
Assuming it takes 2 days to repair at worst: 16 hours x $20 = $2880 a year for repairs.
Over three years $8,640. What's a Dell Gold warranty repair plan cost for 225 pcs? I'm guessing it's going to be more than $8,600 bucks and it's not on site support. You will be sitting around waiting for a tech to come. I think for a smaller number of pc's like this building them yourself while a hassle, maybe more cost effective. Unless you are overworked as it is and the building and maintenance of these machines will prevent you from doing other duties.

 

[skace]

What is this 30 minutes number on computer builds. From spare parts to a fully configured OS?

Does it account for failed parts, replacement time, burn in, etc?

 

[AMCRambler]

Originally posted by: skace
What is this 30 minutes number on computer builds. From spare parts to a fully configured OS?

Does it account for failed parts, replacement time, burn in, etc?

You think CDW or Dell does burn in testing on every computer they assemble? Hahaha. And no it doesn't include the fully configured OS because if he orders them from Dell he's still going to have to make his own image and clone them all anyway. For the assembly time I only included what he will be doing that Dell would do for him had he bought from them.

 

[Fraggable]

Originally posted by: pontifex
but didn't you say you were going to buy pre-built acers?

how is that really any different than getting dells?

I didn't say anything about Acers. Some other posters did.

Oh man, oh man this looks ugly. I didn't read all of the thread because I really didn't want to know what kind of networking equipment is going into this.

Virtually none, most of it is replacements for systems already in place. I'm buying 3 16-port switches, 1 to put in place and 2 for spares.

OP - I assume you built your Dell systems off of the Dell Ohio Educational Store - Contract # 533195-2 and then contacte your Dell rep with that quote to see what they will really sell it for? If not, do so before you commit to a purchase anywhere. I used to do purchasing for a state agency with a Dell contract, and 99.9% of the time I was quoted much better prices via a rep than the prices presented online for identical equipment.

Yes, I customized it on the KY educational site and then used their links to schedule a phone call. I talked to some operator type person who asked enough questions to figure out where to send me, then she put me on some line that asked for an extension, which I hadn't been given. That kind of annoyed me and it was the end of the day so I hung up.

Salary/year with benefits=$40,000
per hour $20 = ($40,000/52 weeks)/40 hours

225 computers to build at 30 minutes a pc comes out to 112.5 hours for assembly.
Cost of assembly 112.5 hours x $20= $2250

$5000 saved - $2250 for assembly = $2750 savings

As for the tech support piece assuming 4% failure rate that's 9 pc's a year.
Assuming it takes 2 days to repair at worst: 16 hours x $20 = $2880 a year for repairs.
Over three years $8,640. What's a Dell Gold warranty repair plan cost for 225 pcs? I'm guessing it's going to be more than $8,600 bucks and it's not on site support. You will be sitting around waiting for a tech to come. I think for a smaller number of pc's like this building them yourself while a hassle, maybe more cost effective. Unless you are overworked as it is and the building and maintenance of these machines will prevent you from doing other duties.

Once again, I make $13.50 an hour, that comes to about 22K/year or 32K/year w/benefits.

Please tell me what kind of a sucker would spend 16 hours troubleshooting a PC? The last few problems we've had I've nailed down in 30 minutes or less. It's usually a PSU or hard drive failure and those are pretty easy.

225 systems? I said 44, not 225. Assembly will be done by me and 2 students. The students are free, I will invest no more than 30 mins per PC, probably much less. That's 22 hours = $300 to pay me to assemble them. We will create a Ghost image and image them all within another 10 hours.

Everyone seems to be indicating that a warranty from an OEM = no support time whatsoever. Think about it. How does that make sense? If I have a problem I still have to make contact with Dell and they'll make me go through troubleshooting with them anyway. How it a warranty saving me time?

 

[imported_Mike]

Originally posted by: Fraggable

Originally posted by: pontifex
but didn't you say you were going to buy pre-built acers?

how is that really any different than getting dells?

I didn't say anything about Acers. Some other posters did.

Oh man, oh man this looks ugly. I didn't read all of the thread because I really didn't want to know what kind of networking equipment is going into this.

Virtually none, most of it is replacements for systems already in place. I'm buying 3 16-port switches, 1 to put in place and 2 for spares.

OP - I assume you built your Dell systems off of the Dell Ohio Educational Store - Contract # 533195-2 and then contacte your Dell rep with that quote to see what they will really sell it for? If not, do so before you commit to a purchase anywhere. I used to do purchasing for a state agency with a Dell contract, and 99.9% of the time I was quoted much better prices via a rep than the prices presented online for identical equipment.

Yes, I customized it on the KY educational site and then used their links to schedule a phone call. I talked to some operator type person who asked enough questions to figure out where to send me, then she put me on some line that asked for an extension, which I hadn't been given. That kind of annoyed me and it was the end of the day so I hung up.

Salary/year with benefits=$40,000
per hour $20 = ($40,000/52 weeks)/40 hours

225 computers to build at 30 minutes a pc comes out to 112.5 hours for assembly.
Cost of assembly 112.5 hours x $20= $2250

$5000 saved - $2250 for assembly = $2750 savings

As for the tech support piece assuming 4% failure rate that's 9 pc's a year.
Assuming it takes 2 days to repair at worst: 16 hours x $20 = $2880 a year for repairs.
Over three years $8,640. What's a Dell Gold warranty repair plan cost for 225 pcs? I'm guessing it's going to be more than $8,600 bucks and it's not on site support. You will be sitting around waiting for a tech to come. I think for a smaller number of pc's like this building them yourself while a hassle, maybe more cost effective. Unless you are overworked as it is and the building and maintenance of these machines will prevent you from doing other duties.

Once again, I make $13.50 an hour, that comes to about 22K/year or 32K/year w/benefits.

Please tell me what kind of a sucker would spend 16 hours troubleshooting a PC? The last few problems we've had I've nailed down in 30 minutes or less. It's usually a PSU or hard drive failure and those are pretty easy.

225 systems? I said 44, not 225. Assembly will be done by me and 2 students. The students are free, I will invest no more than 30 mins per PC, probably much less. That's 22 hours = $300 to pay me to assemble them. We will create a Ghost image and image them all within another 10 hours.

Sounds sketchy. The school didn't give you a check and you're trying to do the job for less are you? Just buy from dell, or some other preassembled etailer.

 

[Fraggable]

I work for the school, I'm not a contractor. I'm full time here.

 

[AMCRambler]

Originally posted by: Fraggable

Originally posted by: pontifex
but didn't you say you were going to buy pre-built acers?

how is that really any different than getting dells?

I didn't say anything about Acers. Some other posters did.

Oh man, oh man this looks ugly. I didn't read all of the thread because I really didn't want to know what kind of networking equipment is going into this.

Virtually none, most of it is replacements for systems already in place. I'm buying 3 16-port switches, 1 to put in place and 2 for spares.

OP - I assume you built your Dell systems off of the Dell Ohio Educational Store - Contract # 533195-2 and then contacte your Dell rep with that quote to see what they will really sell it for? If not, do so before you commit to a purchase anywhere. I used to do purchasing for a state agency with a Dell contract, and 99.9% of the time I was quoted much better prices via a rep than the prices presented online for identical equipment.

Yes, I customized it on the KY educational site and then used their links to schedule a phone call. I talked to some operator type person who asked enough questions to figure out where to send me, then she put me on some line that asked for an extension, which I hadn't been given. That kind of annoyed me and it was the end of the day so I hung up.

Salary/year with benefits=$40,000
per hour $20 = ($40,000/52 weeks)/40 hours

225 computers to build at 30 minutes a pc comes out to 112.5 hours for assembly.
Cost of assembly 112.5 hours x $20= $2250

$5000 saved - $2250 for assembly = $2750 savings

As for the tech support piece assuming 4% failure rate that's 9 pc's a year.
Assuming it takes 2 days to repair at worst: 16 hours x $20 = $2880 a year for repairs.
Over three years $8,640. What's a Dell Gold warranty repair plan cost for 225 pcs? I'm guessing it's going to be more than $8,600 bucks and it's not on site support. You will be sitting around waiting for a tech to come. I think for a smaller number of pc's like this building them yourself while a hassle, maybe more cost effective. Unless you are overworked as it is and the building and maintenance of these machines will prevent you from doing other duties.

Once again, I make $13.50 an hour, that comes to about 22K/year or 32K/year w/benefits.

Please tell me what kind of a sucker would spend 16 hours troubleshooting a PC? The last few problems we've had I've nailed down in 30 minutes or less. It's usually a PSU or hard drive failure and those are pretty easy.

225 systems? I said 44, not 225. Assembly will be done by me and 2 students. The students are free, I will invest no more than 30 mins per PC, probably much less. That's 22 hours = $300 to pay me to assemble them. We will create a Ghost image and image them all within another 10 hours.

Everyone seems to be indicating that a warranty from an OEM = no support time whatsoever. Think about it. How does that make sense? If I have a problem I still have to make contact with Dell and they'll make me go through troubleshooting with them anyway. How it a warranty saving me time?

Argh. I saw 225 somewhere in this post. I think that was students. 44 pc's will cut that down a bit. When it comes to benefits that the company is paying out on your behalf, it's usually about equal to your salary, so that's where they came up with 40 G's a year.
Anyway the point I was trying to make was purchasing the hardware from Dell or CDW and getting it preassembled does not save you anything but the assembly time. They don't burn in test every machine they build. The machines do get imaged so you can be sure that before it left Dell, it was booted. But Dell imaging the machines doesn't save you any time because you will still have to image them anyway. I think for 44 computers you could save money by building them yourself.