Need to make a very large purchase through Newegg

[Fraggable]

Originally posted by: Schfifty Five

Originally posted by: Fraggable
Newegg's Preferred account is stupid, they told me that they don't set up business accounts, it has to be tagged to a person's SSN. We do have one with a 5K limit but there's no way they're going to raise it to 50 for us. I might call Newegg back and talk to a supervisor to see if they'll work with me because I really want to buy from them. I might be able to get CDW to match them but my experience with CDW has been less than positive so far.

I customized a system on Dell Educational's site and it came to $1500 for the same hardware we can get through the Egg for $800. I called to get a rep and talk about it but I got stuck in a phone loop. Their CS has never impressed me and still fails to do so.

So the parts you plan on buying from newegg, are you going to build yourself? If so, do you know how you will handle all repairs/warranty/etc?

Yes, we have been building systems through Newegg for the last 2 years and haven't had any problems. I'm used to dealing with individual vendors for warranty returns, as a matter of fact I prefer that over dealing with an OEM. I find that OEMs assume you're a total idiot and force you to go through the troubleshooting steps they don't even understand.

I built a system identical to these yesterday in 20 minutes, the building isn't the issue. We have a few students who work with us on projects like this and it won't take too long. Any problems we have with the new parts will just go back to Newegg.

 

[jadinolf]

Originally posted by: Fraggable
We have the budget approved, and we need to get the project done this summer before school starts back up. We just can't wait until tuition payments start coming in to start working.

CDW has given me a quote, they're about $5K more than newegg.

Did you also get a quote from newegg or are you using their list prices?

They might do even better for you.

 

[Kelvrick]

Originally posted by: nweaver

Originally posted by: Mxylplyx
Birmingham, AL recently did this when purchasing a few thousands laptops from Dell, thinking it will make the kids in their failing schools smarter. Of course it didnt, and a few years later, Dell filed a lawsuit against the city for lack of payment. I sure as hell wouldnt do it if I were newegg.

they would have been WAY better off spending that money on new books and a new teacher

Eh, enough money is already being thrown at public schools imo. Iono how it is over there in AL, but the system needs to be reworked with too much wasted in administrative sections.

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: Fraggable
Yes, we have been building systems through Newegg for the last 2 years and haven't had any problems. I'm used to dealing with individual vendors for warranty returns, as a matter of fact I prefer that over dealing with an OEM. I find that OEMs assume you're a total idiot and force you to go through the troubleshooting steps they don't even understand.

I built a system identical to these yesterday in 20 minutes, the building isn't the issue. We have a few students who work with us on projects like this and it won't take too long. Any problems we have with the new parts will just go back to Newegg.

Not to slam or anything, but if you looked at a total cost of ownership analysis over 3 years of this method you'd see that you are costing the school system MUCH more money this way.

Parts+your time to build+maintence < buying pre-built with reliable support.

If you're really into this look into a reverse auction with Dell/HP/Toshiba.

 

[thirdlegstump]

Logistically speaking, you're going to save yourself a major hassle by going with CDW. That's what they're there for and if you cannot see the value, you should not be in the position making purchase decisions of this calibre - albeit a small scale purchase. Newegg is for kids building PCs, not for corporate or government accounts. Otherwise tell CDW that Newegg is beating their prices by at least $10K and negotiate with them.

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: thirdlegstump
Logistically speaking, you're going to save yourself a major hassle by going with CDW. That's what they're there for and if you cannot see the value, you should not be in the position making purchase decisions of this calibre - albeit a small scale purchase. Newegg is for kids building PCs, not for corporate or government accounts. Otherwise tell CDW that Newegg is beating their prices by at least $10K and negotiate with them.

This is so true it needs to be repeated.

Saving capital is not a good option. Saving expense is.

Quick numbers....

Saving 5K on capital = 1.67 K per year given a 3 year deprecation.

THAT'S A MEASELY 1.67K dollars PER YEAR.

PC tech at 40 bucks an hour building systems = 80K+benfits PER YEAR.

1.67K < 100K YEAR OVER YEAR!

 

[Uhtrinity]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: thirdlegstump
Logistically speaking, you're going to save yourself a major hassle by going with CDW. That's what they're there for and if you cannot see the value, you should not be in the position making purchase decisions of this calibre - albeit a small scale purchase. Newegg is for kids building PCs, not for corporate or government accounts. Otherwise tell CDW that Newegg is beating their prices by at least $10K and negotiate with them.

This is so true it needs to be repeated.

Saving capital is not a good option. Saving expense is.

Quick numbers....

Saving 5K on capital = 1.67 K per year given a 3 year deprecation.

THAT'S A MEASELY 1.67K dollars PER YEAR.

PC tech at 40 bucks an hour building systems = 80K+benfits PER YEAR.

1.67K < 100K YEAR OVER YEAR!

If you live in an area where pc tech make that kind of salary. Our school already has partime IT (me @ 1/4 time for IT and 1/4 time teaching the lab). Buying prebuilt Acers at Newegg made sense. if anything goes wrong they have 1 year manufactures warranty, and after the 1 year I can use off the shelf components. You can't exactly do that with Dells. We are almost through our first school year and have had a zero failure rate on all of our hardware, except for one soundcard (onboard), but that was because a kindergartener decided the cord tasted good and shorted it out.

For a larger district I can see going with a more corporate friendly company, but our school (which is it's own district) only has 225 students, and will never have over 400 when we add high school. For our situation places like Newegg makes finacial sense due to limited budgets and already having a dedicated IT person.

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: Uhtrinity
For a larger district I can see going with a more corporate friendly company, but our school (which is it's own district) only has 225 students, and will never have over 400 when we add high school. For our situation places like Newegg makes finacial sense due to limited budgets and already having a dedicated IT person.

That's where it breaks down. There is no total cost of ownership analysis taking into account labor and materials factoring in the real cost.

The "front" dollar capital, neglecting the "big picture".

I deal with my SO's compaints all the time (she's in education). They are so inept in terms of spending (saving on the front end, bleeding on the back end) it's unbelievable.

Of all truths in IT, skimping on capital/front end is NEVER a good idea. You will pay for it many times over in expense.

 

[shoRunner]

Originally posted by: Uhtrinity

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: thirdlegstump
Logistically speaking, you're going to save yourself a major hassle by going with CDW. That's what they're there for and if you cannot see the value, you should not be in the position making purchase decisions of this calibre - albeit a small scale purchase. Newegg is for kids building PCs, not for corporate or government accounts. Otherwise tell CDW that Newegg is beating their prices by at least $10K and negotiate with them.

This is so true it needs to be repeated.

Saving capital is not a good option. Saving expense is.

Quick numbers....

Saving 5K on capital = 1.67 K per year given a 3 year deprecation.

THAT'S A MEASELY 1.67K dollars PER YEAR.

PC tech at 40 bucks an hour building systems = 80K+benfits PER YEAR.

1.67K < 100K YEAR OVER YEAR!

If you live in an area where pc tech make that kind of salary. Our school already has partime IT (me @ 1/4 time for IT and 1/4 time teaching the lab). Buying prebuilt Acers at Newegg made sense. if anything goes wrong they have 1 year manufactures warranty, and after the 1 year I can use off the shelf components. You can't exactly do that with Dells. We are almost through our first school year and have had a zero failure rate on all of our hardware, except for one soundcard (onboard), but that was because a kindergartener decided the cord tasted good and shorted it out.

For a larger district I can see going with a more corporate friendly company, but our school (which is it's own district) only has 225 students, and will never have over 400 when we add high school. For our situation places like Newegg makes finacial sense due to limited budgets and already having a dedicated IT person.

unless you go with a non-stardard sized dell, all their stuff will be just as easily replaced with off the shelf parts as any other OEM.

 

[SarcasticDwarf]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: thirdlegstump
Logistically speaking, you're going to save yourself a major hassle by going with CDW. That's what they're there for and if you cannot see the value, you should not be in the position making purchase decisions of this calibre - albeit a small scale purchase. Newegg is for kids building PCs, not for corporate or government accounts. Otherwise tell CDW that Newegg is beating their prices by at least $10K and negotiate with them.

This is so true it needs to be repeated.

Saving capital is not a good option. Saving expense is.

Quick numbers....

Saving 5K on capital = 1.67 K per year given a 3 year deprecation.

THAT'S A MEASELY 1.67K dollars PER YEAR.

PC tech at 40 bucks an hour building systems = 80K+benfits PER YEAR.

1.67K < 100K YEAR OVER YEAR!

You are ignoring the basic fact that the pre-built systems tend to have components fail more often than custom built systems (better part quality). We are talking about desktops where the defective part is replaced by an employee. While you might spend more time setting up custom built systems, you will spend less time (and therefore money) replacing them in the long term. Vendors still (generally) require the employee to replace a part. While the component would be replaced for free, you still have the time investment.

 

[SarcasticDwarf]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: Uhtrinity
For a larger district I can see going with a more corporate friendly company, but our school (which is it's own district) only has 225 students, and will never have over 400 when we add high school. For our situation places like Newegg makes finacial sense due to limited budgets and already having a dedicated IT person.

That's where it breaks down. There is no total cost of ownership analysis taking into account labor and materials factoring in the real cost.

The "front" dollar capital, neglecting the "big picture".

I deal with my SO's compaints all the time (she's in education). They are so inept in terms of spending (saving on the front end, bleeding on the back end) it's unbelievable.

Of all truths in IT, skimping on capital/front end is NEVER a good idea. You will pay for it many times over in expense.

They are saving a lot more than $5k on the front end as they are getting a higher quality system which is less prone to failure. In this case that savings could easily outweigh any increase in labor for the initial setup.

 

[Fraggable]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: thirdlegstump
Logistically speaking, you're going to save yourself a major hassle by going with CDW. That's what they're there for and if you cannot see the value, you should not be in the position making purchase decisions of this calibre - albeit a small scale purchase. Newegg is for kids building PCs, not for corporate or government accounts. Otherwise tell CDW that Newegg is beating their prices by at least $10K and negotiate with them.

This is so true it needs to be repeated.

Saving capital is not a good option. Saving expense is.

Quick numbers....

Saving 5K on capital = 1.67 K per year given a 3 year deprecation.

THAT'S A MEASELY 1.67K dollars PER YEAR.

PC tech at 40 bucks an hour building systems = 80K+benfits PER YEAR.

1.67K < 100K YEAR OVER YEAR!

LOL 40 an hour, that's funny. I get 13.50 an hour and I'd be doing the repairs.

Warranties on these parts are going to be at least 1 year, the same as a prebuilt system. Some parts will have more, like the Seagate hard drives.

I'm all for looking at the long term expenses, but let's look at it in detail.

Let's say I bought a bunch of Dell systems. I get 1 year warranty or pay more for a 3 year warranty. That's no better than I can buy through Newegg. If I have trouble with a system I have to call Dell and go through their troubleshooting and when they finally determine what's wrong, they send out a part and I install it, or they might send a box to return the system for repair. Once the system is out of warranty, replacing parts can only be more expensive than parts on a custom build since some parts may be proprietary.

If I build my own systems I get at least 1 year warranties, 5 years on hard drives. I was planning to get 3 years or more on the PSUs also. If I have trouble I troubleshoot the problem and contact the appropriate manufacturer. They will do minimal troubleshooting and whatever they ask I will have already tried anyway. They send out a replacement part and I'm done. Parts will be widely available and not proprietary.

Am I missing something?

I should also mention that CDW offered to build the PCs for us at no cost, I would do that if I purchased from them.

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: SarcasticDwarf
They are saving a lot more than $5k on the front end as they are getting a higher quality system which is less prone to failure. In this case that savings could easily outweigh any increase in labor for the initial setup.

Prove it.

I'm not just talking out of my butt here. Prove "higher quality system". It's a bunch of bull eaten up by pc guys that don't understand the larger picture. Face it, an actual failure of hardware is a very rare event. VERY RARE. (except by guys that build PCs that waste countless hours blaming it on the hardware and constant RMAs)

There is one truth in IT, and that rule is expense in terms of labor/maintenance is always greater than saving a buck on the front end.

I'm not trying to slam here, I'm trying to teach.

Do the math. Do it over 2-3 years. Do it based on ongoing expense vs. capital.

 

[Fraggable]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: SarcasticDwarf
They are saving a lot more than $5k on the front end as they are getting a higher quality system which is less prone to failure. In this case that savings could easily outweigh any increase in labor for the initial setup.

Prove it.

I'm not just talking out of my butt here. Prove "higher quality system". It's a bunch of bull eaten up by pc guys that don't understand the larger picture. Face it, an actual failure of hardware is a very rare event. VERY RARE. (except by guys that build PCs that waste countless hours blaming it on the hardware and constant RMAs)

There is one truth in IT, and that rule is expense in terms of labor/maintenance is always greater than saving a buck on the front end.

I'm not trying to slam here, I'm trying to teach.

Do the math. Do it over 2-3 years. Do it based on ongoing expense vs. capital.

So your argument seems to be that the labor of initial setup and building is going to cost more than what we save by doing it custom?

You're right, hardware failure is pretty rare. Hardware failures will become more likely as the PCs age and by then the warranties will be out and I'll be doing the repairs myself anyway.

On the other hand, out of the 5 Tablet PCs we bought at the beginning of this school year, all 5 have bad hard drives and are being sent back 1 by 1 as we have enough loaners to spare. That's taking me 3 hours on average per PC to go through the troubleshooting with Toshiba and ship them out, the re-image them when they come back. If I just bought my own hard drive and fixed it myself I'd be done in an hour total.

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: Fraggable
So your argument seems to be that the labor of initial setup and building is going to cost more than what we save by doing it custom?

In mostways, yes. The big expense comes in the care and feeding. In this day and age there is simply no reason for hardware to fail, it does happen.

My point is your time is money. At 14 bucks an hour, that's 30K (a little OT) per year, plus benefits making you an 40K/yr expense.

I'm honestly not trying to put anybody down here. Just step outside the initial savings and see the ongoing costs/expense. OP - you can sell this, you can prove it. Focus on headcount, cost of full-time-employees, cost of maintenance. If you really want to save your schoold money look at the 3-5 year cost (or cost avoidance).

 

[JS80]

there's a reason why CDW costs more and yet they are used by Fortune 1000 companies as their supplier. newegg does not offer term because they don't want to wait 30-60 days to receive payment and risk bad debt. the whole point of their low price is instant cash.

 

[SarcasticDwarf]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: SarcasticDwarf
They are saving a lot more than $5k on the front end as they are getting a higher quality system which is less prone to failure. In this case that savings could easily outweigh any increase in labor for the initial setup.

Prove it.

I'm not just talking out of my butt here. Prove "higher quality system". It's a bunch of bull eaten up by pc guys that don't understand the larger picture. Face it, an actual failure of hardware is a very rare event. VERY RARE. (except by guys that build PCs that waste countless hours blaming it on the hardware and constant RMAs)

There is one truth in IT, and that rule is expense in terms of labor/maintenance is always greater than saving a buck on the front end.

I'm not trying to slam here, I'm trying to teach.

Do the math. Do it over 2-3 years. Do it based on ongoing expense vs. capital.

I already have. I worked in the IT department at a school district and saw it first hand. Districts tend to purchase some of the cheapest systems available. Combine that with purchasing from an OEM and you have low quality components.

The district worked on a six year cycle. In a lab of 30 systems in the 2-4 year range we could expect hardware failure on at least 2-4 per year. Figure in a couple hours of time per component and you have some serious costs involved.

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: JS80
there's a reason why CDW costs more and yet they are used by Fortune 1000 companies as their supplier. newegg does not offer term because they don't want to wait 30-60 days to receive payment and risk bad debt. the whole point of their low price is instant cash.

Ahhhh, somebody who understands.

Nice post.

 

[JS80]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: JS80
there's a reason why CDW costs more and yet they are used by Fortune 1000 companies as their supplier. newegg does not offer term because they don't want to wait 30-60 days to receive payment and risk bad debt. the whole point of their low price is instant cash.

Ahhhh, somebody who understands.

Nice post.

Just a simple Accountant's perspective

 

[StageLeft]

CDW or not depends on the application. If the hardware is just responsible for kids playing in a lab, it's no biggie. It's when hardware failures start costing people money and requiring an IT department to spend its weekend tinkering with repairs that it becomes suddenly and easily worth paying for something more expensive and having them "take care of you". Certainly from a support standpoint, newegg is not designed to support a business. The business will never have an account rep they can call who will get anything done, but perhaps that's not necessary here.

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: JS80
Just a simple Accountant's perspective

Where do you think I got this crap pounded into me?

Frickin' bean counters.

As a pro, comment on my capital vs. expense and the buckets I have to deal with.

 

[Uhtrinity]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: Uhtrinity
For a larger district I can see going with a more corporate friendly company, but our school (which is it's own district) only has 225 students, and will never have over 400 when we add high school. For our situation places like Newegg makes finacial sense due to limited budgets and already having a dedicated IT person.

That's where it breaks down. There is no total cost of ownership analysis taking into account labor and materials factoring in the real cost.

The "front" dollar capital, neglecting the "big picture".

I deal with my SO's compaints all the time (she's in education). They are so inept in terms of spending (saving on the front end, bleeding on the back end) it's unbelievable.

Of all truths in IT, skimping on capital/front end is NEVER a good idea. You will pay for it many times over in expense.

The systems we got were better than the systems quoted from Dell for $10k more. Less expensive doesn't always mean cheaper. And for the record our faculty raves about how reliable our network and systems are compared to the districts they had worked in before, though granted we are in our first year with new hardware.

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: Uhtrinity
The systems we got were better than the systems quoted from Dell for $10k more. Less expensive doesn't always mean cheaper. And for the record our faculty raves about how reliable our network and systems are compared to the districts they had worked in before, though granted we are in our first year with new hardware.

Thanks for proving my point.

Penny wise, pound foolish.

 

[JS80]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: JS80
Just a simple Accountant's perspective

Where do you think I got this crap pounded into me?

Frickin' bean counters.

As a pro, comment on my capital vs. expense and the buckets I have to deal with.

I read it and I really didn't see the point of commenting on it as no one else would really care nor understand wtf we're talking about. With that said, yes I agree with your capex comment (especially considering depreciation is a non-EBITDA expense vs maintenance expense hits EBITDA), but I don't care to expand on it because no one else cares

 

[Goosemaster]

not trying to brown nose, but spidey knows what he is talking about.

just think about the management costs alone....unless it doesn't matter.